TSA mess and the police

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Thank you, LuvOrlando for starting this thread. I think the national debate is far from over. Very interesting reading everyone's perspectives.
 
I'm glad to see that the whole opt-out silliness fell flat. It is heartening to see that so few people were snowed by the rampant propaganda the critics of the policy had been piling on. Hopefully, people will continue to ignore the extremists trying to foster fear, uncertainty and doubt to try to make it such that their personal preference trumps reasonable consideration of the issue.

Back to cooking. Seeyas in a few days.

A lot of independent sources and travelers reported that many airports had the scanners roped off Wednesday and not in use. Mainstream media is not covering it, but there are pictures and accounts if you feel like googling.

Mythbusters' Savage: I got past TSA with razor blades
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20023820-71.html

But hey, it's a great idea to point to people not wanting to be nudo-scanned as the ones fostering fear. They'll be back on today if you want to go through a security procedure that won't stop a single terrorist. Or put your trust in an agency that hasn't caught any terrorists.

All extremists.
http://www.thousandsstandingaround.org/
 
chicken-little.jpg
 

1: Old news. The article is from July, the information has been provided in other threads here in the past, and the marketing idea was developed last year. Which brings me to
2: It's creative. The help-wanted advertising could reach a target audience that may not otherwise consider a TSA career. People with a range of experience, from a variety of economic strata, and with a wide range of education order/eat pizza. I get the distinct impression the poster who's deriding this creative recruiting method thinks it's directed only at low income, poorly educated persons.
 

I agree, I think the people who are terrified a terrorist is hiding in every 4 year old's undies or under everyone's guy or girls parts do look a bit like this to me.

Good one:thumbsup2

It's a little on the antagonistic side for me but since you put it out there...
 
A lot of independent sources and travelers reported that many airports had the scanners roped off Wednesday and not in use. Mainstream media is not covering it, but there are pictures and accounts if you feel like googling.

Mythbusters' Savage: I got past TSA with razor blades
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20023820-71.html

But hey, it's a great idea to point to people not wanting to be nudo-scanned as the ones fostering fear. They'll be back on today if you want to go through a security procedure that won't stop a single terrorist. Or put your trust in an agency that hasn't caught any terrorists.

All extremists.
http://www.thousandsstandingaround.org/

I know somebody who made it through an entire round trip flight with a steak knife in his laptop case.

I feel soooo much safer with the TSA in charge. :rolleyes:
 
I'm a bit bummed because today I woke up to a ton of e-mail from Disney Cruise line, Norwegian Cruise line and a bunch of airlines with good deals and I won't even consider any of them because I don't know what strings might be attached. rats... now I need to come up with totally different set of plans for 2011:rolleyes: sigh... I can't stand this because I am a creature of habit, I DO NOT like to change
 
PLEASE someone tell me the TSA Agents were changing gloves after each and every pat down and that this is all some disgusting mistake? IF not ewwwwwwwwwwwwww




http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=232457


WND Exclusive RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINES
Doctors sound TSA germ alert
Dangers include syphilis, lice, viruses, ringworm
Posted: November 24, 2010
9:09 pm Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2010 WorldNetDaily


Syphilis, lice, gonorrhea, ringworm, chlamydia, staph, strep, noro and papilloma viruses all are part of the possible fringe benefits when airline passengers next go through a full hands-on pat-down by agents of the federal government's Transportation Security Administration, according to doctors.

WND reported two days ago on alarmed passengers who noted that TSA agents doing the pat-downs that have been described by critics as molestation since they include touching private body parts were not changing gloves between passengers. In fact, some apparently were patting down dozens of passengers or more wearing the same gloves.

But neither the TSA nor federal agencies such as the Centers for Disease Control was willing to comment on the possibilities that infections and other loathsome afflictions could be passed from passenger to passenger.

Now two doctors – and several others – have confirmed that there is the definite possibility that passengers will be able to catch whatever someone in front of them in line was suffering from via the latex gloves TSA workers use.

Join tens of thousands of Americans in a petition demanding action against the intrusive airport screening procedures implemented by Janet Napolitano and send a letter to Congress, President Obama and others telling them exactly what you think about the issue.

"There is no doubt that bacteria (staph, strep, v.cholerae etc.) and viruses (noro, enteroviruses, herpes, hepatitis A and papilloma viruses) can be spread by contaminated vinyl or latex gloves," Dr. Thomas Warner of Wisconsin told WND in a letter to the editor.

"If a traveler has diarrhea and is soiled, as can and does happen, the causative agent can be spread by this method since bacteria and viruses in moist environments have greater viability."

(Story continues below)




He continued. "The traveler readjusting clothes can easily get the infectious agents on their hands and therefore into their mouth, nose or eyes."

Added a pulmonary critical care physician from Connecticut who did not want to be identified by name, "That doesn't make sense that they're not changing gloves."

"Anything can be transmitted. If there are open wounds and they [TSA agents] are not aware, there's syphilis, gonorrhea, herpes, chlamydia, lice, ringworm."

Worse yet would be for people whose immune systems are compromised by treatments they may be having, including cancer patients, she said.

A Transportation Security Administration (TSA) agent wipes an explosives-detecting device over the hands of a female traveller as she undergoes security screening at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport in Washington November 24, 2010. Millions of Americans took to the skies on Wednesday for the start of the Thanksgiving holiday amid protests by some travellers about heightened, more invasive security procedures. REUTERS/Jason Reed (UNITED STATES - Tags: SOCIETY TRANSPORT)

Physicians undergo extensive training, follow strict rules and even have those who watch them to make sure they follow procedures to reduce to an absolute minimum the likelihood of carrying disease from one person to another, she said.

"How come if we as doctors have guidelines, we must wear gloves and have oversight, it's very different [for the TSA]," she said.

Warner told WND some of the infections are "a tough little beast" and easily would be spread through the contact being used by the TSA.

"Staphylococci are also tough and can be spread on fomites (eg . towels, tampons or gloves ) and survive in dry conditions. Methicillin resistant staph creates havoc in hospitals AND in those awaiting surgery (eg. traveling for a transplant ) when the 'carrier' patient must be clear of the bacterium before elective surgery," he said.

"Emerging infectious and tropical agents create another wild scenario," he said.

He said at a minimum gloves should be changed between pat-downs, "especially if the gloved hand is inside clothes or in the genital ... area even if clothed. Travelers should be advised of this and hand-wash and change clothes ASAP after these intimate examinations."

The CDC previously told WND to contact the TSA, which did not respond to inquiries, on the status of policies that would minimize the possibility of passing infections from one passenger to another.

The response today was the same, according to a WND reader who passed along his question to the CDC about the situation and the agency's response.

In response to a question about minimizing the possibility infections could be passed along, the CDC said:

Thank you for your inquiry to CDC-INFO. In response to your comments that Transportation Security Administration (TSA) agents are not changing gloves between the travelers that they pat-down, we are pleased to provide you with the following information.

If you are traveling and are going to be searched, you can request that the TSA agent change his or her gloves.

Endorsing the doctors' recommendations was a commentary at Natural News.com.

There, the editorial writer noted the intimacy of the pat-downs by the TSA, procedures which are required for some travelers and offered as an option to those who refuse to go through a full-body image scanner which essentially reveals a nude image of the passenger for TSA workers to review.

"Air travel passengers across America have been complaining of the TSA fingering their genitalia and touching their sex organs. Just this week, an ABC News employee was fingered by a TSA agent who felt around inside her underwear. ... This process of touching traveler's genitals without consistently changing latex gloves means the TSA is involved in extremely risky behavior that could spread disease," the website warned.

"TSA agents are not trained as medical personnel. Just as they don't seem to grasp the Bill of Rights, they also may not understand how infectious disease is spread. They aren't medical personnel; they're Big Brother enforcers who have likely never been taught the principles of how to conduct a sterile body search," the commentary said.

"If an athlete with jock itch (a fungal infection) undergoes a TSA pat-down, that TSA agent could spread the passenger's jock itch from his crotch to his armpits and neck. The same is true for a person suffering from ringworm or other skin fungal infections: Merely touching them and then touching another body part can cause them to spread," the website said. "Even worse, if that same TSA agent does not change his or her gloves between pat-downs, they could be spreading jock itch, ringworm or other infections from traveler to traveler. So traveler #2 could end up with the jock itch picked up from traveler #1."

In WND's original report on the issue of gloves online forum participants said it was clear the gloves are to protect the TSA agents, not provide any protection for passengers.

Martha Donahue in a commentary at Resistnet said she'd spent 30 years in the medical industry.

"For those of you who fly and opt for the 'pat down,' you need to demand the TSA thugs change their gloves. I've been watching on the news how they operate. People are being searched [with] dirty gloves ... gloves that have been in crotches, armpits, touching people who may be ill, people who pick their noses. Do you want those gloves touching you?

"These thugs are protecting themselves from you. You need to be protected from them," she wrote. "In a hospital, nursing home, in-home care, or even labs, that would never even be considered an option."

While the CDC referred questions about health and disease issues to the TSA, in its online writings the organization repeatedly makes clear the importance of maintaining clean hands to avoid such transmission of communicable and contagious afflictions.

Dr. Julie Gerberding, at the time the chief of the CDC, said during a special presentation on hand cleanliness, "We know that hand hygiene is a critical component of safe and healthy health care."

At the same time, Dr. John Boyce, lead author of the organization's hand-washing guidelines and the chairman of the Hand Hygiene Task Force, said, "There's a large study that was conducted at the University of Geneva Hospital in Switzerland where they demonstrated significant improvement in the adherence of health care workers to hand hygiene practices and they also showed that the incidence of antibiotic resistance to staph infections went down and that the overall prevalence of health care-acquired infections went down ... ."

Suggested Gerberding in the context of health care, "Hand hygiene saves lives. We're recommending a comprehensive evidence-based approach in hospitals that consists of handwashing with soap and water when the goal is to remove unsightly debris; hand alcohol preps for enhancing appearance and reducing bacterial counts; and gloving when people have contact with blood or other body fluids in accordance with universal precautions."

She said even in a "community setting," "washing with soap and water remains a very sensible strategy for hand hygiene."

Other health standards across the country routinely warn against hand contact with sores, lesions or other sources of viruses or contamination. The Lincoln, Neb., health site notes, "This includes hand contact."

Officials at the Canadian Center for Occupational Health noted that "hand washing is the single most effective way to prevent the spread of infections.

"You can spread certain 'germs' (a general term for microbes like viruses and bacteria) casually by touching another person. You can also catch germs when you touch contaminated objects or surfaces and then you touch your face (mouth, eyes, and nose)," it said.

On a TSA blog promoting the agency's actions and policies, one screener explained, "Changing gloves is fairly simple ... . When I gate screen I carry about 10-12 pairs in my pockets."

Respondents to the comment were outraged, "That's just plain disgusting and most certainly not acceptable ... procedures as set forth by the CDC for usage of gloves for protection," said one. "Reasoning being is that the bacteria count in your pockets is about the same is your mouth or armpit."

Wrote another forum participant, "Those gloves are soiled if they come out of your pockets and before handling my stuff you will be expected to obtain a clean, from the original container, pair. ... Who knows what filth inhabits your pockets!"
 
I guess I'll start carrying clorox wipes before I sit in the chairs in the waiting area, the food court and the airplane seat. Others have sat there before me, who knows what they were harboring. Yuck, never thought about that before, now it will be like the bedspreads at Disney and other hotels, can't look at them without wondering.....
 
I just found this too, check out a Google search for : "Mythbusters' Savage: I got past TSA with razor blades"

Could the situation POSSIBLY be more ridiculous? Totally made me spit out my drink :rotfl:

I would have posted the link but since there is a touch of bad language I thought link might not be ok.
 
PLEASE someone tell me the TSA Agents were changing gloves after each and every pat down and that this is all some disgusting mistake? IF not ewwwwwwwwwwwwww




http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=232457


WND Exclusive RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINES
Doctors sound TSA germ alert
Dangers include syphilis, lice, viruses, ringworm
Posted: November 24, 2010
9:09 pm Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2010 WorldNetDaily

Disgusting article, but not entirely logical. There's no direct skin-to-skin contact between agents and people. Mucous membranes and exchange of fluids are not involved at all in a pat down (beyond the possibility of agents getting coughed and sneezed on).

Besides, if a person is SO contaminated with bacteria, germs and viruses that a gloved hand first touching the outside of their clothing and then touching outside YOUR clothing could make you sick, then I really pity the person who has to sit next to them on the plane, or squeeze past them in aisle, or use the bathroom after they've used it, or touch an armrest they've touched, or breathe the same recycled airplane air...
 
Disgusting article, but not entirely logical. There's no direct skin-to-skin contact between agents and people. Mucous membranes and exchange of fluids are not involved at all in a pat down (beyond the possibility of agents getting coughed and sneezed on).

Besides, if a person is SO contaminated with bacteria, germs and viruses that a gloved hand first touching the outside of their clothing and then touching outside YOUR clothing could make you sick, then I really pity the person who has to sit next to them on the plane, or squeeze past them in aisle, or use the bathroom after they've used it, or touch an armrest they've touched, or breathe the same recycled airplane air...

I don't know that direct skin to skin or mucous exchange is necessary to cross contaminate EVERY health threat, at least that's not how it was presented in Microbiology class. I seem to remember hearing& reading how fungal skin infections (among others) are fairly easy to transmit even from fomites, in fact fomites are a fairly easy way to transmit disease. Not every pathogen requires a living vector, now some die quickly outside of the human body (HIV), but a fair amount do not. That's why Lister revolutionized medicine when he started washing hands, that's why hospitals use anti-microbials, that's why MRSA is so prevalent in hospitals and that's why medical professionals who touch people need to wear gloves and wash up between touching people.

I have a hard time with the logic that because one risk is tolerable, all other vulnerabilities should, by default, also be accepted. This line of reasoning came up with the radiation and now with disease and I have to say I accept neither assertion. To me it is not ok to increase risk simply because some risks are already inherent in whatever I choose to do. I can accept that to some people it's fine as long as they can accept to me, it's not.
 
Ring worm spores can be in the air so if someone has ringworm, and it's not covered, (or even sometimes if it is) you can end up with ringworm. Once we have kittens in the house that had ringworm, we bleach the entire kitten room, toss most toys and bleach those that can be. So far, I haven't gotten it, and I've prob had a dozen ringworm kittens over the years. But yes, if I was being patted down, I would want new gloves..especially if they are inspecting around the inside of the top of my jeans.
That said, I don't think I'm any more apt to get something from someone who touched another, than I would be sitting in an airplane seat, or touching an escaltor railing.
 
I don't know that direct skin to skin or mucous exchange is necessary to cross contaminate EVERY health threat, at least that's not how it was presented in Microbiology class. I seem to remember hearing& reading how fungal skin infections (among others) are fairly easy to transmit even from fomites, in fact fomites are a fairly easy way to transmit disease. Not every pathogen requires a living vector, now some die quickly outside of the human body (HIV), but a fair amount do not. That's why Lister revolutionized medicine when he started washing hands, that's why hospitals use anti-microbials, that's why MRSA is so prevalent in hospitals and that's why medical professionals who touch people need to wear gloves and wash up between touching people.

I have a hard time with the logic that because one risk is tolerable, all other vulnerabilities should, by default, also be accepted. This line of reasoning came up with the radiation and now with disease and I have to say I accept neither assertion. To me it is not ok to increase risk simply because some risks are already inherent in whatever I choose to do. I can accept that to some people it's fine as long as they can accept to me, it's not.

I think the problem is that if one risk is INtolerable, then you should logically avoid all similar behaviors that are riskier.

It's akin to the idea that if I'm allergic to a single bite of cheese, then I certainly shouldn't go off and eat a whole brick of cheese. Similarly, if scanner radiation is too much for me, and IF the scanner radiation is equivalent to a few minutes of flight time, then I certainly shouldn't ever set foot on a plane.

I suspect getting patted down is less risky as far as disease transmission goes than riding the city bus. And I'm not going to stop riding the bus. YMMV.
 
My DH & DD (7years old) traveled from New Orleans to Orlando in September before all the new changes. We had no problem, everyone was nice at both airports.
The only airport I have ever had a not nice TSA agent was in Dallas last year & she just didn't like me. I handed her my id & boarding pass & smiled & she was just ugly & rude to me, don't know why, but then she spent extra time being nice, smiling, & chatting up my husband who was behind me. :rotfl:

Now, I am concerned about the newer rules. We'll be flying again in a couple of weeks from N.O. to Orlando and I really do not want to be touched by anyone & I sure as heck don't want someone touching my DD. I don't mind the scanners as much. Plus I have anxiety issues which I'm sure will not fare well having a stranger touching me or her. So I'm worried. I'm hoping it'll go okay.
Has anyone traveled with their children lately using either of these two airports? And what was your experience?
 
I think the problem is that if one risk is INtolerable, then you should logically avoid all similar behaviors that are riskier.

It's akin to the idea that if I'm allergic to a single bite of cheese, then I certainly shouldn't go off and eat a whole brick of cheese. Similarly, if scanner radiation is too much for me, and IF the scanner radiation is equivalent to a few minutes of flight time, then I certainly shouldn't ever set foot on a plane.

I suspect getting patted down is less risky as far as disease transmission goes than riding the city bus. And I'm not going to stop riding the bus. YMMV.

No, that's not the way I see it. Some risk in life is unavoidable, unless a person wants to be a "Bubble Boy'" or "Howard Hughs", two sorts of folks I'm not really jonesing to join. I can see that for you it's all or nothing, either be a "Bubble Boy" or a "Pig Pen" from Charlie Brown, I'm more of a moderate myself. You see, I'm OK with the unavoidable kinds of risk, it's the 'value added' deliberate kinds I have a problem with, and I especially have a problem with the risk when it's pointless.
 
No, that's not the way I see it. Some risk in life is unavoidable, unless a person wants to be a "Bubble Boy'" or "Howard Hughs", two sorts of folks I'm not really jonesing to join. I can see that for you it's all or nothing, either be a "Bubble Boy" or a "Pig Pen" from Charlie Brown, I'm more of a moderate myself. You see, I'm OK with the unavoidable kinds of risk, it's the 'value added' deliberate kinds I have a problem with, and I especially have a problem with the risk when it's pointless.

Well said.:thumbsup2
 
No, that's not the way I see it. Some risk in life is unavoidable, unless a person wants to be a "Bubble Boy'" or "Howard Hughs", two sorts of folks I'm not really jonesing to join. I can see that for you it's all or nothing, either be a "Bubble Boy" or a "Pig Pen" from Charlie Brown, I'm more of a moderate myself. You see, I'm OK with the unavoidable kinds of risk, it's the 'value added' deliberate kinds I have a problem with, and I especially have a problem with the risk when it's pointless.

Gee... I thought I was the moderate here. :lmao:

I don't see myself as "Pig Pen", but I also tend not to get freaked out about bed bugs (I search each hotel room we stay in, and then don't waste time worrying about it). Or a radioactive scan, since I'm not a frequent traveller. Or a pat down, since I'm not afflicted with any personal-space hangups and I don't have a compromised immune system.

I have sympathy for people who do get freaked by things like that, though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New Posts


Disney Vacation Planning. Free. Done for You.
Our Authorized Disney Vacation Planners are here to provide personalized, expert advice, answer every question, and uncover the best discounts. Let Dreams Unlimited Travel take care of all the details, so you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a stress-free vacation.
Start Your Disney Vacation
Disney EarMarked Producer






DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Add as a preferred source on Google

Back
Top Bottom