Transgenders and bathrooms....

[threeboysmom]

Unless you live in Charlotte NC there is no new law and absolutely nothing has changed. 99% of the country allows transgender people to use the bathroom they choose. There aren't any laws about which bathroom you have to use.

And no, I don't know any teens or young men that will don a dress and wig to get a peak at the women's bathroom.

As far as I know, you don't have to dress or look like a woman to actually enter a women's bathroom. It's just a matter of what gender you "identify" with. That's the issue.

I can go into the men's bathroom if I want and stand by the urinals and nobody can do a thing about it if I claim I identify with being male.

 

[Hikergirl]

They don't have to don a dress and wig to legitimize their visit to the women's bathroom. They can walk in as-is.

What were the laws that didn't allow them to do that before?

 

[FlightlessDuck]

What were the laws that didn't allow them to do that before?

Well, I don't know, but here's a question: Are there police standing outside every bathroom where you live?

 

[Vijoge]

Oh, for pete's sake, just go in the bathroom, pee, and leave. Don't worry about what may or may not be contained in someone else's pants. Oh, yeah, don't forget to wash your hands.

 

[Hikergirl]

Well, I don't know, but here's a question: Are there police standing outside every bathroom where you live?

Of course not, and that isn't likely to change, which is why anyone could go into any bathroom they want. This law doesn't allow anything that can't already be done.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I find all these ridiculous state laws very helpful. They let me know which states to NEVER visit, spend money in, consider living or working in, etc. Really narrows things down for me.

How very "enlightened" of you. Nothing like condemning an entire state over something 99% of the citizens had no say in - unless you're taking about places like California that put gay marriage to a public vote.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

Yes, pervs will be pervs. I'm wondering if the law would give a male perv masquerading as a transgender to get into the women's room some legal protection. He could say "Hey, I identify as female so I can go in the women's bathroom." Maybe all he's doing in there is standing around and leering at women as they go in and out of the stalls. Maybe he's looking at the women's feet under the stall walls and making yummy noises. Would either of these behaviors be illegal? This law gives him another avenue for his pervy behavior in a place where women feel particularly vulnerable. I suppose it is the same for men in the men's room but men are not likely to feel physically threatened by women. They could, but not likely.

As far as I know, you don't have to dress or look like a woman to actually enter a women's bathroom. It's just a matter of what gender you "identify" with. That's the issue.

I can go into the men's bathroom if I want and stand by the urinals and nobody can do a thing about it if I claim I identify with being male.

So how does forcing everybody to use the bathroom that corresponds to their biological sex (on their birth certificate for that matter) help this? It leaves the door open for the exact same issue. The same phantom issue that's been "theoretical" before these bathroom laws were ever enacted.

Did you worry about this before all this became news?

Not to mention those with the highest probability of being attacked in restroom with or without laws are transgendered. They're actually the truly vulnerable ones in the restroom.

I'm really trying to understand this POV because either way you slice the law this is an issue. Unless of course you want to do what that one principal did and have a genitals checker at the doors to make sure everybody is going to the right place. I guess we could all scan our birth certificates at the door to all public restrooms, of course, there would be outrage at the taxes needed to fund this.

 

[fly girl]

Can I just say I can't believe this thread is 9 pages?!

9 pages over an issue that really should be a non-issue. OMG ... our sorry government is truly rubbing off on us!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

As far as I know, you don't have to dress or look like a woman to actually enter a women's bathroom. It's just a matter of what gender you "identify" with. That's the issue.

I can go into the men's bathroom if I want and stand by the urinals and nobody can do a thing about it if I claim I identify with being male.

There's a whole urinal etiquette thing you have to learn first though - no eye contact, no talking, no critiquing what you see, if you get stage fright, fake it & flush anyway, and if you're hiking your dress up, use the stalls.

 

[fly girl]

I'll leave this right here too.



Kroger may not own a globe (my post a few weeks ago about Taste of Spain event and Mexican beer) but they nailed this!

 

[mnrose]

Then, maybe the answer is that there isn't anything we can do and we'll just have to learn to deal with it. This is a valid answer.

We've been dealing with it for a long time. It's just that no one either (a) knew, or (b) cared. Carry on the same way we always have. It will be fine.

 

[luvsJack]

I agree.

I have absolutely NO issue whatsoever sharing a bathroom with a transgendered individual. None whatsoever. I DO have a problem sharing a bathroom with a MAN who is pretending & taking full advantage of this new law in order to get a peek at girls. And I'm not necessarily talking about a pervert that is looking to harm a woman or child, but just a full-blooded, testosterone-charged male looking for a cheap thrill. Not sure about you all, but in my teens and early 20's, I knew PLENTY of guys that would JUMP at the chance to enter a women's locker room, fitting room, or restroom... and now they can legally. I'm not comfortable with that at all. Women will have absolutely no privacy. Sorry, but I don't want to pee in front of a normal male that is standing outside my stall just so he can get his jollies.

Honestly, we go in this direction, we might as well make every bathroom, fitting room, and locker room unisex in every public place and school. Just get rid of all gender separations. What's the point of having male/female if we can go in either that we choose?

Sad that in order to give someone else their "right to choose", it takes away my "right to privacy, decency, & dignity."

You knew some odd ducks.

Nothing has been stopping them from doing any of this. NOTHING. There is NO law giving anyone the ability to do anything. There is only a law preventing it in one state.

 

[LisaR]

There are still plenty of laws in place that make it illegal for a person to get their jollies in public. Why would a pervert start hanging out in a women's restroom if he can't do anything? Do you think there will be a rash of men standing in the corner of bathrooms everywhere exposing themselves? Looking over/under doors? Recording people going to the bathroom? All of that is STILL illegal. If they weren't willing to risk being caught before, I don't see anything that has changed that will make them want to risk it now.

 

[msjprincess]

You knew some odd ducks.

Nothing has been stopping them from doing any of this. NOTHING. There is NO law giving anyone the ability to do anything. There is only a law preventing it in one state.

Exactly. Nothing has changed. If it hasn't been an issue up until now why on earth do people think this is going to be a problem all of a sudden?

 

[Vijoge]

I'm 66 years old and so far no one has ever peeked at me from under the door of a bathroom stall. Funny, I never even considered that a possibility. Still don't. actually.

 

[sunshinehighway]

You knew some odd ducks.

Nothing has been stopping them from doing any of this. NOTHING. There is NO law giving anyone the ability to do anything. There is only a law preventing it in one state.

No kidding. I don't know any men who are jumping at the chance to hang out in the ladies room and I can't imagine any of them would get their jollies by standing outside the stall while I pee. It's actually insulting to men to say they have so little respect for privacy and women in general.

 

[Lynne M]

A few things that confuse me about these laws...

1) Many people seem to assume that all transgender people are/have transitioned from male to female. That's not the case. What about trans men, who have transitioned from female to male? These laws now force these big, bearded, hairy dudes, with (surgically constructed) male parts, to use the ladies room. Somehow, I don't think that's what the lawmakers had in mind.

2) Since in many states, transgender people can have the gender revised on their birth certificates and/or drivers licenses when they transition, how would anyone know what their gender-at-birth was? Will these states be assigning police officers to every restroom in the state, who will require people to drop their pants before entering the bathroom? Whoops, that won't work, either, if the person has surgically transitioned. Or will the police get special training on how to inspect people's nether regions for signs of surgery?

2a) Since point (2) seems to imply that the laws may be unenforceable without massive expenditures of taxpayer money to pay and train thousands of "bathroom police," or without the staggering privacy breach of requiring every person entering a restroom to show their "stuff"....what was the point? Why pass a law that will probably never be enforced? How will these laws, which we were told were vitally necessary to keep women and children safe.....actually keep women and children safe?

3) Let's say that it's true that some man, somewhere, will dress up as a woman and sneak into a ladies room to physically assault a woman? That would only happen if the restroom was so isolated that no other woman would enter while the assault took place, and no one outside would hear the victim scream. In which case there would be no one around to notice if the person was disguised as a man or not. So how would the law help?

4) Hm...maybe it's the children we're worried about? Some pedophiles assault children of the opposite gender, some assault children of the same gender. How would this law protect children from being attacked in a bathroom by someone of their own gender?

5) And the most confusing thing of all to me....I've heard a number of male politicians and clergy say that when they were young, they would have jumped at the opportunity to pretend they were trans women so they could sneak into a ladies room, therefore lots of men will do this. To see what? What's the draw? Are there men who are turned on by watching women walk into stalls and close the door? Or watching women wash their hands? Or watching women touch up their makeup? What else would they see?

 

[Vijoge]

5) And the most confusing thing of all to me....I've heard a number of male politicians and clergy say that when they were young, they would have jumped at the opportunity to pretend they were trans women so they could sneak into a ladies room, therefore lots of men will do this. To see what? What's the draw? Are there men who are turned on by watching women walk into stalls and close the door? Or watching women wash their hands? Or watching women touch up their makeup? What else would they see?

Precisely. It's not as if we walk into a public bathroom, take off all our clothes, and sit naked on the counter.

 

[DLgal]

How very "enlightened" of you. Nothing like condemning an entire state over something 99% of the citizens had no say in - unless you're taking about places like California that put gay marriage to a public vote.

I can condemn whatever I want. Why do you care? I don't make rules that affect anyone else.

 

[cedricandsophie]

This has suddenly become the issue of the day. Remember a few years ago, it was gay marriage. Does anyone really care about gay marriage any more except politicians wh think they can get some angst up over it. I've been to lots of bathrooms in Europe where Men and women shared the space. Who in the hell cares? I've seen guys peeing and it's not pretty. I wouldn't dwell in it. I see Plenty of guys peeing in alleys! I doubt if any guy wants to see me peeing...certainly my husband doesn't...and if he does them he is sick and should be in a mental institution. It's just crazy what we in America Complain about.