Transgenders and bathrooms....

[kamik86]

No problem with men attacking boys in the boys room since most mom's on the DIS take them into the ladies room until they are 21. Oh, wait... a different sex going into the "wrong" bathroom. And quite frankly boys, once they get to a certain age, are probably more likely to try to sneak a peek than a trans-gendered man. It's a natural curiosity.

Ooh I forgot about this issue... even more reason to just make all bathrooms for everyone like I said (better would be one room but that involves construction. Just changing the signs can happen the day the decision is made) then no problems about going in with your 3 year old, 8 year old, or 15 year old as everyone can use the same one.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Same. I've used the men's room a handful of times when the ladies' room had an excessively lone line, mostly at sports stadiums or arenas. There may have been a raised eyebrow or two, but no one said anything. DH said he once used the ladies' room at an airport, because he really had to go and the adjacent men's room was closed for cleaning.



On the theme park strategy board, a thread pops up occasionally about women insisting their 12 year old sons accompany them into the ladies room because the men's room is full of perverts waiting to molest their sons.

That's the dis crazy all men are perverts thing. It's up there with all the gifted children, perfect husbands, evil in laws.

 

[Hrhpd]

Attorney General Loretta Lynch ROCKS! Her take on NC's law is to be admired.

 

[firecracker725]

We were in France for a long weekend last weekend--I think the only gender separated restrooms we even saw were at Disneyland Paris (and even there some of the ones in the Village are no longer separated, like at Earl of Sandwhich, and the one by Phantom Manner is always so confusing for the men that you inevitably end up with some who just go ahead and stay in the ladies' room once they find themselves in there by mistake.

Here in Germany the restrooms are still mostly separate, but it is not at all uncommon to have someone of another gender in cleaning, or bringing a young child into the room which matches the child's gender, etc--and in 7 years here I have never seen anyone make a fuss about it. Probably because there is NO logical reason to make an issue of it.

I was just about to add that MANY restrooms in France are unisex. It was no big deal.

 

[porschegrl]

The signage is weird and the men's room requires waling around the corner of the building into an area which doesn't even look public otherwise--just a funny set up. Most men walk into the hallway past the sign assuming the entrance will be there--and there IS an entrance there--the one for the ladies, but not for the men.
We happened to be sitting on a wall near there last week, just because it had some rare shade, and amused ourselves seeing how many men walked into the ladies room and came out again a moment later looking befuddled--it was nearly 50%.

That does sound confusing!

 

[MariMama]

What do you mean by diffently? Definitely? Defiantly? Differently? "Guys" dressing in women's clothing, did you consider it was a trans group (supporting each other) and that they were on their way to an event, etc?



Not 'very liberal', just intelligent, and understanding. I'm not a super liberal, more moderate/independent, and I find it interesting that people who accept the trans population are considered 'very liberal'.

The locker room issue - individual showers make the most sense, and that's what every girls' locker room has had that I've been in for 5 decades. Not sure about the boys' locker room, as I've never been in one. For mixed teams, they use both locker rooms (girls on the boys' hockey team, etc) And then there are bathroom stalls to change in as well.

I've never seen a girls locker room that has individual shower stalls, including our high school that was build 14 years ago.

 

[DopeyDame]

I've never seen a girls locker room that has individual shower stalls, including our high school that was build 14 years ago.

I've never seen a girls locker room that *doesn't* have individual shower stalls. Truly never. Not in high school (and I'm old!), college, at the local Y, my workplace gym. All of them have separate shower stalls in the women's room. No clue how the men's rooms are set up. Do the girls at your high school take showers at school?
What region of the country to you live in? Could it be regional norms maybe? I'm truly shocked to hear of a modern high school with group showers in the girls locker room.

 

[DizBelle]

Let's go over this again, for those who may need it. Transgendered people are not perverts. Neither are homosexual people or bisexual people or queer or questioning or gender fluid people.

Perverts are perverts. They can be straight, gay, bi, or whatever. They can be your next door neighbor, the person on the register at the grocery store, a coach, a pastor, a close family member. Simply being attracted to a particular gender, or identifying as a certain gender, does not make one a pervert. Being attracted to children does. So is sexually engaging others without their consent, whether known or unknown to them. And there are other things that would make one a pervert, but being gay or trans or any number of other orientations / identifications has nothing to do with it.

FTR, I was never suggesting that transgendered people were perverts. What I was suggesting is that perverts may masquerade as transgendered just to get into the bathroom that they want to get into.

 

[msjprincess]

FTR, I was never suggesting that transgendered people were perverts. What I was suggesting is that perverts may masquerade as transgendered just to get into the bathroom that they want to get into.

That argument goes both ways. In NC a trans man is supposed to be in the women's room. What's to stop a pervert from claiming he was born female and belongs in that bathroom? Both scenarios are far-fetched.

And let's be honest. Perverts don't care about laws.

 

[Planogirl]

I think that the only good solution is unisex stand-alone bathrooms. The lines as to who goes where are all fuzzy now and to keep from upsetting anyone this is likely the only good answer. The problem is getting businesses to spend the money.

 

[luvsJack]

How on earth has everyone been figuring out which bathroom to go to without the government's help???? I mean I don't think all transgenders have been holding it all these years. I just don't get why anyone is so up in arms now.

Anyone know WHY NC decided to make this law? Have they had some kind of problems in that state over who goes to what bathroom?

 

[DizBelle]

What's to stop a perv from pretending to be the opposite gender and going into a bathroom now? I mean, really, if they are going to break the law to peak at people, or harass them, or worse, well why would they care about breaking that law?

And really, why put one group (trans people) into what has been shown to be a dangerous situation to them, because another group (pervy cis people) might do something bad. Why not just control what the bad guys do in the first place?

And if these pervy cis people are such a problem, why aren't we worried about what they might do to same gender children in the bathroom they would be using normally?

People are worried about that as well. Not sure where you get that people aren't. It's just that this thread isn't about that situation.

 

[DizBelle]

Perverse behavior isn't gender specific. There is nothing to stop a perverse man or woman from going into their gender assigned bathroom and doing something unacceptable to other patrons.

A woman born to that gender can be just as "pervy" to other women and young girls and the same can be said about men.

True. But this thread and my question were about those that would masquerade as a specific gender just to get into that gender's bathroom for nefarious purposes.

 

[DizBelle]

Agree with many who posted above...nothing has changed and pervs will be pervs.


I do find it interesting that now with the bathroom issue everybody is suddenly concerned for women and children. Why is this concern just coming now? Why haven't these people stood up against rape culture when scandals of football players and coaches come out? Priests and politicians? Where have the boycotts been? Why is the message then all about what the girl did or why ruin these good men's lives? We hate to see our "heroes" fall, but the concern for womens' safety now seems a bit hollow and frankly as an excuse to further marginalize an already marginalized group.

Yes, pervs will be pervs. I'm wondering if the law would give a male perv masquerading as a transgender to get into the women's room some legal protection. He could say "Hey, I identify as female so I can go in the women's bathroom." Maybe all he's doing in there is standing around and leering at women as they go in and out of the stalls. Maybe he's looking at the women's feet under the stall walls and making yummy noises. Would either of these behaviors be illegal? This law gives him another avenue for his pervy behavior in a place where women feel particularly vulnerable. I suppose it is the same for men in the men's room but men are not likely to feel physically threatened by women. They could, but not likely.

 

[DizBelle]

I was the victim of a pervert when I was 11. He was related to me, not a stranger. This is true the VAST majority of the time. It's someone known to the victim. Not a stranger in the bathroom.

Perverse behavior happens outside of the bathroom as well. We're focusing on the behavior that happens inside the bathroom.

Transgendered people should be allowed to use the bathroom of the gender with which they identify. I have no problem with that. They aren't the ones my questions are about. My questions are about the dishonest ones and what we can do about them. Or can we not do anything about it and we're all just going to have to learn to deal with it?

 

[MariMama]

I've never seen a girls locker room that *doesn't* have individual shower stalls. Truly never. Not in high school (and I'm old!), college, at the local Y, my workplace gym. All of them have separate shower stalls in the women's room. No clue how the men's rooms are set up. Do the girls at your high school take showers at school?
What region of the country to you live in? Could it be regional norms maybe? I'm truly shocked to hear of a modern high school with group showers in the girls locker room.

Neither my high school nor college had individual shower stalls. I graduated from high school 20+ years ago. Yes, girls take showers at school, more after sporting events than during gym class.

 

[L&Lfan]

Attorney General Loretta Lynch ROCKS! Her take on NC's law is to be admired.

Too bad she doesn't give a rat's patootie about forcing "sanctuary cities" to obey US immigration law.

 

[kamik86]

Yes, pervs will be pervs. I'm wondering if the law would give a male perv masquerading as a transgender to get into the women's room some legal protection. He could say "Hey, I identify as female so I can go in the women's bathroom." Maybe all he's doing in there is standing around and leering at women as they go in and out of the stalls. Maybe he's looking at the women's feet under the stall walls and making yummy noises. Would either of these behaviors be illegal? This law gives him another avenue for his pervy behavior in a place where women feel particularly vulnerable. I suppose it is the same for men in the men's room but men are not likely to feel physically threatened by women. They could, but not likely.

If the man is just staring at people then nope its not illegal. I probably wouldn't even notice or care. Ok maybe I'll notice and find it off if no one else was in there but yeah whatever. If the man is doing anything threatening or harassing then it would be illegal and would be dealt with accordingly.

I don't think we need laws to prevent every already illegal thing someone may do. As we said above they are much more likely to do this in other locations anyway so why are we so focused here.

Why are women particularly vulnerable in the bathroom. You have a locked door between you for anything that would make you more vulnerable.

I can think of many places where someone (of either gender) would be more vulnerable then a bathroom.

And for the biggest reason why this is wrong. I hate any solution that brings down the freedoms of people that are not doing anything illegal or wrong in anyway to protect someone from the already illegal thing someone else may do.

Examples include many TSA screening practices, this bathroom debate, and far too many other things. Everyone wants to restrict everyone from doing things that are not in any way wrong (like bring shampoo on a plane or using the bathroom they are most comfortable with) for some frankly extremely false measure of security that most likely wouldn't work if anyone really wanted to hurt you anyway.

 

[kimblebee]

Neither my high school nor college had individual shower stalls. I graduated from high school 20+ years ago. Yes, girls take showers at school, more after sporting events than during gym class.

My elementary school had individual stalls for the girls. We always thought it was weird because they looked like they were never used. The school was built in the 50's..

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I've never seen a girls locker room that has individual shower stalls, including our high school that was build 14 years ago.

Neither my high school nor college had individual shower stalls. I graduated from high school 20+ years ago. Yes, girls take showers at school, more after sporting events than during gym class.

I graduated from high school 40 years ago and my high school had individual shower stalls and dressing rooms. The high school I attended prior to that did not but nobody ever used the shower as far as I recall.