Transgenders and bathrooms....

[NHdisneylover]

I'll just say this:

In the states with these laws, are they really going to station a bathroom monitor checking everyone out to make sure that they're going in the correct bathroom? No? Then really, how enforceable is this? The answer being not very enforceable at all.

Also, I was in Epcot one day, and there was a man in one of the ladies rooms at World Showcase. Not dressed up as a woman or anything, just a man, standing there. Needless to say, I found another bathroom, but still, I am far more concerned about this than transgender individuals using the bathroom of their choice.

Even if a law is not very enforceable, it is still a law, and in this case, legalizing something harmful to a whole group of people, that in and of itself make it wrong to pass the law and put it on the books.

Worse, I think this law DOES make trans people more vulnerable. As noted by many posters already, trans people are MUCH more likely to be harassed and even physically attacked when using public restrooms than most people. With laws require use of a certain restroom one of two things happens:
1. they follow the law even if it does not fit them and they might really look like they do not belong there, increasing their risk of being attacked while there (from people like the poster below, for example)
or
2. They use the correct restroom for them, but it is not legal, and if they do not look "feminine enough" or "masculine enough" and get attacked anyway and try to report it and get help they'll get slapped with charges for being in the "wring place" It is a lose-lose situation for the victims of a bad law.

Another issue, is having the law there makes some people feel empowered and justified in self policing bathrooms in the way they see fit and attacking people they don't want to see in there (see below). Once again increasing the odds of harm coming to a trans person (or even a cis one who just doesn't look exactly how someone thinks they should).

THIS is the reason that I now carry pepper spray and I am not afraid to spray a guy using the women's bathroom while screaming for help

 

[ChrisFL]

Even if a law is not very enforceable, it is still a law, and in this case, legalizing something harmful to a whole group of people, that in and of itself make it wrong to pass the law and put it on the books.

Worse, I think this law DOES make trans people more vulnerable. As noted by many posters already, trans people are MUCH more likely to be harassed and even physically attacked when using public restrooms than most people. With laws require use of a certain restroom one of two things happens:
1. they follow the law even if it does not fit them and they might really look like they do not belong there, increasing their risk of being attacked while there (from people like the poster below, for example)
or
2. They use the correct restroom for them, but it is not legal, and if they do not look "feminine enough" or "masculine enough" and get attacked anyway and try to report it and get help they'll get slapped with charges for being in the "wring place" It is a lose-lose situation for the victims of a bad law.

Another issue, is having the law there makes some people feel empowered and justified in self policing bathrooms in the way they see fit and attacking people they don't want to see in there (see below). Once again increasing the odds of harm coming to a trans person (or even a cis one who just doesn't look exactly how someone thinks they should).

Exactly, and added to the "mainstream" politicians and ads calling these people perverts when there's been ZERO evidence pointing to any conclusion as such has made it worse for everyone IMO

 

[Maistre Gracey]

It's already started in the schools. Not sure what will happen when it trickles to the locker room showers.

Many here seem to be very liberal on this subject. I find that interesting.

 

[DisneyOma]

We were in a restaurant a few years ago there were a group of guys. You could diffently they were guys. Dressed in women's clothes. Make up and all. I noticed they all went into the women's bathroom. I'm sorry to say I found this very unsettling. What places to do now is have more companion bathrooms that way no one has to worry about anything

What do you mean by diffently? Definitely? Defiantly? Differently? "Guys" dressing in women's clothing, did you consider it was a trans group (supporting each other) and that they were on their way to an event, etc?

It's already started in the schools. Not sure what will happen when it trickles to the locker room showers.

Many here seem to be very liberal on this subject. I find that interesting.

Not 'very liberal', just intelligent, and understanding. I'm not a super liberal, more moderate/independent, and I find it interesting that people who accept the trans population are considered 'very liberal'.

The locker room issue - individual showers make the most sense, and that's what every girls' locker room has had that I've been in for 5 decades. Not sure about the boys' locker room, as I've never been in one. For mixed teams, they use both locker rooms (girls on the boys' hockey team, etc) And then there are bathroom stalls to change in as well.

 

[1Mouse2RulethemAll]

It's already started in the schools. Not sure what will happen when it trickles to the locker room showers.

Many here seem to be very liberal on this subject. I find that interesting.

This here is what I think more people are worried about than public restrooms and what many people are not discussing. Using a toilet and leaving is no big deal, but what about a school or gym locker room? Most people, trans/cis/or not, are very self conscious or too young to be exposed to different "plumbing." What should be done then?

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

It's already started in the schools. Not sure what will happen when it trickles to the locker room showers.

Many here seem to be very liberal on this subject. I find that interesting.

Believing in basic human rights and treating all humans with dignity is not liberal nor progressive. It's simply being a fellow human being, and it's a pretty basic expectation, in my opinion.

 

[msjprincess]

This here is what I think more people are worried about than public restrooms and what many people are not discussing. Using a toilet and leaving is no big deal, but what about a school or gym locker room? Most people, trans/cis/or not, are very self conscious or too young to be exposed to different "plumbing." What should be done then?

I've been in thousands of public bathrooms. I've never been exposed to anyone else's "plumbing".

 

[LisaR]

It's already started in the schools. Not sure what will happen when it trickles to the locker room showers.

Many here seem to be very liberal on this subject. I find that interesting.

I have zero fear of trans people and I do not think they are perverts who want to abuse our children. I really don't care who is in a public bathroom with me as long as they are there to do their thing and leave.

I think these new laws are absurd.

I do not fear perverted guys suddenly walking into public bathrooms and raping our daughters. I think everything about this is beyond ridiculous.

Having said all that, I do not support transgender teens using the opposite locker rooms in a high school setting. From my personal experience, I know far too many teens who switch genders like I switch underwear. I also know some who are gender fluid (I think that's the term). Today they are feeling more like a guy and tomorrow they feel more like a girl. I have zero problems with this, but they should not be allowed to pick and choose the locker room they use based on how they are feeling that day. I do feel accommodations should be made for these kids and I don't think it is overly difficult to find private changing areas for them in most schools.

From what I can tell, high school locker rooms are a nonissue in most places. The kids I know around here were able to take other classes instead of gym or they had their own spaces to change.

I think we are creating problems where there aren't any. Deal with the occasional few issues that pop up and let the rest work out like they have been all along.

 

[kamik86]

Honestly I think we should just do away with separate bathrooms entirely. Remove urinals as they can be an issue and then everyone gets stalls and can use any room with stalls.

Seriously people have been going into the wrong bathrooms for years. I was in middle school when a bunch of guys came in during some club meeting while I was in the girls room. Didn't bother me at all. Actually bothered them more when I frankly told them why the girls rooms had tiny trash cans in the stalls (yes this was the only thing they noticed and wanted to know about).

The only bathroom issue I hate is how at work I can't use the bathroom when it is being cleaned because they take forever (close both the mens and womans the whole time they are doing either) and this entire building has 3 women's restrooms on this large floor so its annoying to have to go to another one.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

What's to stop a perv from pretending to be the opposite gender and going into a bathroom now?

What's to stop them from not even pretending and just walking into the opposite gender bathroom without even a disguise?

 

[kamik86]

I have zero fear of trans people and I do not think they are perverts who want to abuse our children. I really don't care who is in a public bathroom with me as long as they are there to do their thing and leave.

I think these new laws are absurd.

I do not fear perverted guys suddenly walking into public bathrooms and raping our daughters. I think everything about this is beyond ridiculous.

Having said all that, I do not support transgender teens using the opposite locker rooms in a high school setting. From my personal experience, I know far too many teens who switch genders like I switch underwear. I also know some who are gender fluid (I think that's the term). Today they are feeling more like a guy and tomorrow they feel more like a girl. I have zero problems with this, but they should not be allowed to pick and choose the locker room they use based on how they are feeling that day. I do feel accommodations should be made for these kids and I don't think it is overly difficult to find private changing areas for them in most schools.

From what I can tell, high school locker rooms are a nonissue in most places. The kids I know around here were able to take other classes instead of gym or they had their own spaces to change.

I think we are creating problems where there aren't any. Deal with the occasional few issues that pop up and let the rest work out like they have been all along.

I wonder how many of the high schoolers care about the locker room issue. My friends and I were discussing places we changed in high school for different events (buses on the way to games for sports, classrooms with both genders for plays, (I had one really fast change that involved me stripping just backstage at one point).

Take the plays for example. 40 or so of us would change in the same room. For like the first 2 days of dress rehersal week a few went to the bathrooms but by half way through that week (nevermind the actual shows where you would have to fight around those going tos ee the play to do this) everyone was changing in the one room. We had several members that were gay most were straight and seriously no one cared. This was in 2001. Kids today seem even more progressive then we were.

In high school the only reason I would have complained about a locker room issue would be if I thought like you said above that might get me in another class so I didn't have to take gym. I hated gym.

 

[1Mouse2RulethemAll]

I've been in thousands of public bathrooms. I've never been exposed to anyone else's "plumbing".

I was referring to locker rooms there, not bathrooms.

 

[mjkacmom]

It's already started in the schools. Not sure what will happen when it trickles to the locker room showers.

Many here seem to be very liberal on this subject. I find that interesting.

Our school allows kids to use the bathrooms and locker room of the gender they identify with. It hadn't been a problem.

 

[tzolkin]

It's already started in the schools. Not sure what will happen when it trickles to the locker room showers.

This here is what I think more people are worried about than public restrooms and what many people are not discussing. Using a toilet and leaving is no big deal, but what about a school or gym locker room? Most people, trans/cis/or not, are very self conscious or too young to be exposed to different "plumbing." What should be done then?

The thing is this has been and will continue to be an issue in school locker rooms regardless of which way the rules/laws decide to go. If you say a trans girl must use the boys locker room because she has male "plumbing" that's going to be a huge issue (constant harassment and humiliation). If you say she can use the girls locker room, some kids and parents are going to have an issue with that as well. Really the only solution is for different accommodations to be made for these kids.

One of my best friends in high school was unable to use the locker room or the bathrooms because he was repeatedly attacked for "seeming gay". (He didn't come out publicly until after HS). The school's solution was for him to only use the bathroom in the office and to just not take gym classes. This was 20 years ago.

 

[littlejimmy]

the obvious answer is to have bathrooms for all. hear me out on this. 3 letter labels on bathrooms.
1st letter: gender you were born with.
2nd letter: gender you identify with
3rd letter: genitals you have.

examples: if you were born a man, but identify as a woman, but still have male genitals, you would go into the bathroom marked mfm. if you were born a female, identify as a female, and have female genitals, you would go into the bathroom marked fff. if you were born a female, identify as a male, and have male genitals, you would go into the bathroom marked fmm. such an easy solution. now no one gets pepper sprayed.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

We don't have such laws in UK or Europe as far as I am aware and I can't say it is a massive problem men posing as transgender to get into the women's restroom.....I have never heard of this! In fact in some parts of Europe it is common to have mixed bathrooms. Some states in the US need to chillax. Let the transgender folk use the darn loo!

 

[fly girl]

Oh good grief. Pepper spray at the ready just in case a transgender person comes into a public restroom? Seriously?

If you're that worried, wear Depends. One less person I'll have to wait for.

 

[kamik86]

the obvious answer is to have bathrooms for all. hear me out on this. 3 letter labels on bathrooms.
1st letter: gender you were born with.
2nd letter: gender you identify with
3rd letter: genitals you have.

examples: if you were born a man, but identify as a woman, but still have male genitals, you would go into the bathroom marked mfm. if you were born a female, identify as a female, and have female genitals, you would go into the bathroom marked fff. if you were born a female, identify as a male, and have male genitals, you would go into the bathroom marked fmm. such an easy solution. now no one gets pepper sprayed.

Or just do away with the labels at all just mark them "restroom" and let everyone use them all. Espeically if you go with some of the nicer ones I have seen that have taller stall doors that go down closwer to the ground and not have gaps large neough for me to put fingers through.

 

[Suger Mag]

It's already started in the schools. Not sure what will happen when it trickles to the locker room showers.

I hated the group showers when I was in college (lol about 3 decades ago). Kinda silly I know, but I used to shower in the middle of the night so as not to have to do the group lineup. Having a male or a female in the locker room at the same time nowadays is not as big of a deal to me, all of the locker rooms now seem to have individual showers; and I personally prefer to use the private rooms, showers and toilets to take care of any of my locker room business. Sometimes it does not have to be different genders to make folks uncomfortable. At my local YMCA, they did have a sign up in the ladies 'fancy' locker room asking folks to get dressed/undressed in a 'timely" manner as a few too many folks would get naked and then 'hang out' and chat for extended periods of time.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

What's to stop them from not even pretending and just walking into the opposite gender bathroom without even a disguise?

Nothing I suppose but it's a non-issue because you're going to know if someone is being creepy in a bathroom. Man/woman... WHOEVER. If you are looking in people's stalls or being threatening to people you shouldn't be in there no matter who you are.