Transgenders and bathrooms....

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Do kids even shower at gym anymore? Change yes... But really shower? I never saw one person shower in school unless it was after early morning sports practice.

 

[kamik86]

Do kids even shower at gym anymore? Change yes... But really shower? I never saw one person shower in school unless it was after early morning sports practice.

Most of the time no. Occasionally if they happened to slip in the mud during an outside gym maybe but that is all.

 

[PollyannaMom]

maybe companies should just put in family bathrooms instead. then we dont have any problems...

I think this is what will eventually happen. It's one of those times when it's easier to eliminate the question than to answer it in a way that makes everyone happy.

Personally, I've never used a multiple-toilet restroom that didn't have private stalls, so I really don't get the worry about seeing anything or being seen. All I do in the public space is wash my hands and maybe brush my hair. I'll share the sink with whoever happens to be there.

 

[NHdisneylover]

We were in France for a long weekend last weekend--I think the only gender separated restrooms we even saw were at Disneyland Paris (and even there some of the ones in the Village are no longer separated, like at Earl of Sandwhich, and the one by Phantom Manner is always so confusing for the men that you inevitably end up with some who just go ahead and stay in the ladies' room once they find themselves in there by mistake.

Here in Germany the restrooms are still mostly separate, but it is not at all uncommon to have someone of another gender in cleaning, or bringing a young child into the room which matches the child's gender, etc--and in 7 years here I have never seen anyone make a fuss about it. Probably because there is NO logical reason to make an issue of it.

 

[CF'er]

I would just be happy if the person before me would learn how to flush the thing. It's getting more and more common for me to go into the restroom to find someone has been too lazy to flush. It's not an issue of it being broken because when I then flush for them it works like a charm. In a large bathroom I would move on but some places are single stall only or a double with one occupied.

 

[Minnesota!]

THIS is the reason that I now carry pepper spray and I am not afraid to spray a guy using the women's bathroom while screaming for help

So, you would disable yourself, too. Super smart...ignorant, too..

Honestly I think we should just do away with separate bathrooms entirely. Remove urinals as they can be an issue and then everyone gets stalls and can use any room with stalls.

Seriously people have been going into the wrong bathrooms for years. I was in middle school when a bunch of guys came in during some club meeting while I was in the girls room. Didn't bother me at all. Actually bothered them more when I frankly told them why the girls rooms had tiny trash cans in the stalls (yes this was the only thing they noticed and wanted to know about).

The only bathroom issue I hate is how at work I can't use the bathroom when it is being cleaned because they take forever (close both the mens and womans the whole time they are doing either) and this entire building has 3 women's restrooms on this large floor so its annoying to have to go to another one.

They are doing that at a school near me. Taking out all male/female bathrooms and just adding a long line of stalls, with a common sink/mirror area. I think it is great...hopefully all schools start doing it..

 

[sunshinehighway]

I think this is what will eventually happen. It's one of those times when it's easier to eliminate the question than to answer it in a way that makes everyone happy.

Personally, I've never used a multiple-toilet restroom that didn't have private stalls, so I really don't get the worry about seeing anything or being seen. All I do in the public space is wash my hands and maybe brush my hair. I'll share the sink with whoever happens to be there.

Honestly this is a case where some people will never be happy because it's not really just about bathrooms (bathrooms just get the attention). The only solution wanted is to be able to openly distriminate against some people. People just need to be honest (in general, not calling out anyone here). Stop hiding behind the old "think of the women and children " argument. It's so fake and just makes those using it look ridiculous.
I do find it interesting that these people ago are so concerned about their daughters and perverts dressing up to go in the women's room seem to have no concern for those same perverts in the men's room with their sons. Oh, that's right it's because this is really an imaginary problem invented to mask bigotry as safety concerns and "famly values".
I'm sick of hearing that term. The family values I grew up with and pass on involve being kind and accepting that people live different ways.

 

[Hrhpd]

It's already started in the schools. Not sure what will happen when it trickles to the locker room showers.

Many here seem to be very liberal on this subject. I find that interesting.

Thank goodness

 

[Hrhpd]

This here is what I think more people are worried about than public restrooms and what many people are not discussing. Using a toilet and leaving is no big deal, but what about a school or gym locker room? Most people, trans/cis/or not, are very self conscious or too young to be exposed to different "plumbing." What should be done then?

A high school student is too young to be exposed to different plumbing?

Personally, I don't think any child is too young. It is life, it is reality. One of the schools in the area that I occasionally volunteered in had a child transitioning in kindergarten. They were allowed to use the bathroom of their identified gender. I wish the adults in the world could be as understanding and accepting as this child's classmates. We could all learn a whole lot from these youngsters. To them, XX was just XX, a good friend, a classmate.

I think if children are taught and have experiences at a young age, we would not have the fear of the unfamiliar that we see in older children and the adults that make the world so dangerous for our fellow people that may not fit some narrow minded societal norm.

 

[NHdisneylover]

A high school student is too young to be exposed to different plumbing?

Personally, I don't think any child is too young. It is life, it is reality. One of the schools in the area that I occasionally volunteered in had a child transitioning in kindergarten. They were allowed to use the bathroom of their identified gender. I wish the adults in the world could be as understanding and accepting as this child's classmates. We could all learn a whole lot from these youngsters. To them, XX was just XX, a good friend, a classmate.

I think if children are taught and have experiences at a young age, we would not have the fear of the unfamiliar that we see in older children and the adults that make the world so dangerous for our fellow people that may not fit some narrow minded societal norm.

I tend to agree---we have a cultural norm against seeing body parts at young ages--but there is no real reason for this (and cultural norms can and do change, and are not always "right" just because they are a norm).

Germans (where i live, so i reference it a lot, sorry) tend to be pretty matter of fact about nudity. Nudity in places it makes no sense, like the grocery store, would be an issue, but in a locker room, or sauna (where clothes/swimsuits are not normally allowed) is no biggie to anyone. I admit it felt a little odd the first time I went to the large sauna area (mulitple rooms, lounger in between, etc) at one of our local indoor pool complexes and everyone was totally nude---all genders and all ages, even little kids. But I got used to it pretty quickly and no one else seemed to care at all. The idea that bodies are just bodies and that there are reasonable times and places for all levels of dress or undress is not really all that hard to grasp---little kids do not have an issue with it so far as I can tell, most pay about as much attention to different plumbing as they do different skin color or hair texture, etc if it no one makes it into an issue for them--it is much more of problem for some adults to grasp.

 

[CF'er]

No problem with men attacking boys in the boys room since most mom's on the DIS take them into the ladies room until they are 21. Oh, wait... a different sex going into the "wrong" bathroom. And quite frankly boys, once they get to a certain age, are probably more likely to try to sneak a peek than a trans-gendered man. It's a natural curiosity.

 

[mnrose]

Most of the time no. Occasionally if they happened to slip in the mud during an outside gym maybe but that is all.

Not in our high school either. Mostly because of lack of time. They barely have enough time to change clothes. And, no one gets completely nekkid when they change clothes.

 

[Hikergirl]

Its not like suddenly there are trans people in the world. There has always been trans people using the bathroom that they identify with and nobody was the wiser. That means that at any time some guy who decided he wanted to molest, or take pictures or whatever could walk into the women's restroom disguised and pretending to be a woman.
Do people really think these new laws are going to make someone suddenly think of doing that? If they are a sex offender I'm sure they have thought of all sorts of ways to get away with committing their crimes. And no these laws don't allow it because as far as I know molesting, rape, indecent exposure are all still illegal acts.

 

[porschegrl]

the one by Phantom Manner is always so confusing for the men that you inevitably end up with some who just go ahead and stay in the ladies' room once they find themselves in there by mistake.

Just curious, what makes that restroom confusing for the men?

 

[mnrose]

Thank goodness

No kidding! And, I think some of these posters are going to be very surprised by how much this is non-issue for teens these days. They truly do not understand what the big deal is. Baffling is how my daughter describes it.

 

[Hrhpd]

I tend to agree---we have a cultural norm against seeing body parts at young ages--but there is no real reason for this (and cultural norms can and do change, and are not always "right" just because they are a norm).

Germans (where i live, so i reference it a lot, sorry) tend to be pretty matter of fact about nudity. Nudity in places it makes no sense, like the grocery store, would be an issue, but in a locker room, or sauna (where clothes/swimsuits are not normally allowed) is no biggie to anyone. I admit it felt a little odd the first time I went to the large sauna area (mulitple rooms, lounger in between, etc) at one of our local indoor pool complexes and everyone was totally nude---all genders and all ages, even little kids. But I got used to it pretty quickly and no one else seemed to care at all. The idea that bodies are just bodies and that there are reasonable times and places for all levels of dress or undress is not really all that hard to grasp---little kids do not have an issue with it so far as I can tell--it is much more of problem for some adults to grasp.

I think that explains why I too have a much more relaxed view of the human body. My parents are European and I grew up summering in Nice (French Riviera) and other European beaches. From day one, wearing a top at the beach was the strange thing. Seeing different "parts" from a young age was just matter of fact and did not scar all the youngsters that I grew up with. While I love being American, there are a few things I wish we could learn from Europe and one would be their open minded view of the human body.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Just curious, what makes that restroom confusing for the men?

The signage is weird and the men's room requires waling around the corner of the building into an area which doesn't even look public otherwise--just a funny set up. Most men walk into the hallway past the sign assuming the entrance will be there--and there IS an entrance there--the one for the ladies, but not for the men.
We happened to be sitting on a wall near there last week, just because it had some rare shade, and amused ourselves seeing how many men walked into the ladies room and came out again a moment later looking befuddled--it was nearly 50%.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I think that explains why I too have a much more relaxed view of the human body. My parents are European and I grew up summering in Nice (French Riviera) and other European beaches. From day one, wearing a top at the beach was the strange thing. Seeing different "parts" from a young age was just matter of fact and did not scar all the youngsters that I grew up with. While I love being American, there are a few things I wish we could learn from Europe and one would be their open minded view of the human body.

We never wore suits in the hot tub, even with the kids when little (the detergent used to wash suits is not good for the system), so luckily it was not a huge culture shock for our kids. Plus in community theatre they were used to all of us changing in the wings (all ages and genders) as needed. I was used to that since highschool as well--like a PP
It's really only a big deal if you make it one.

 

[RedAngie]

I'm a cisgender woman and I use men's bathrooms when they've got no line and the ladies' room has 10 people waiting. I can't think of a single time anyone cared.

Same. I've used the men's room a handful of times when the ladies' room had an excessively lone line, mostly at sports stadiums or arenas. There may have been a raised eyebrow or two, but no one said anything. DH said he once used the ladies' room at an airport, because he really had to go and the adjacent men's room was closed for cleaning.

I do find it interesting that these people ago are so concerned about their daughters and perverts dressing up to go in the women's room seem to have no concern for those same perverts in the men's room with their sons. Oh, that's right it's because this is really an imaginary problem invented to mask bigotry as safety concerns and "famly values".
I'm sick of hearing that term. The family values I grew up with and pass on involve being kind and accepting that people live different ways.

On the theme park strategy board, a thread pops up occasionally about a helicopter mom insisting her 12 year old son accompany her into the ladies room because the men's room is full of perverts waiting to molest her son. And then there are plenty of replies that agree.

 

[L&Lfan]

We were in France for a long weekend last weekend--I think the only gender separated restrooms we even saw were at Disneyland Paris (and even there some of the ones in the Village are no longer separated, like at Earl of Sandwhich, and the one by Phantom Manner is always so confusing for the men that you inevitably end up with some who just go ahead and stay in the ladies' room once they find themselves in there by mistake.

Here in Germany the restrooms are still mostly separate, but it is not at all uncommon to have someone of another gender in cleaning, or bringing a young child into the room which matches the child's gender, etc--and in 7 years here I have never seen anyone make a fuss about it. Probably because there is NO logical reason to make an issue of it.

Just curious and I ask you because of your experience, do that find that Muslims and other folks of non European culture are ok with the unisex bathrooms? I would think it would be harder for them to adjust as so many aspects of their lives are gender separated, but of course, I could be wrong.