Transgender Gym Mess

[FlightlessDuck]

But this isn't about race, and there really is no comparison.

You don't chose your race. You don't chose your gender.

 

[JanaDee]

double post

 

[OZMom]

But this isn't about race, and there really is no comparison. This is about a person who is physically and appears to be a male in a changing room designated for women.

We only have her word on what this person looked like. FWIW, I feel like if this person presented as a man there may have been a few more complaints or a few more women willing to come forward and support the woman who complained, but to my knowledge that didn't happen.

I think this woman took what she perceived to be an injustice towards her and ran with it. She probably embellished a little bit to make herself look less like a drama queen and bring people to her side, as people in the media often do.

If she didn't want people to see her changing, she could have used a stall or changed at home. If she disagreed with the policy, she could have switched gyms. PF doesn't have a contract the way other gyms do, at least the one near me doesn't. If she did have a contract, I'm sure they would have let her out of it.

However, she didn't ask to change gyms, she asked the gym and all the patrons who have no problem with their policy, to change for her own comfort. When that didn't work she turned to harassing people, which is not just obnoxious, but is an invasion of privacy.

 

[Kayabee]

You don't chose your race. You don't chose your gender.

Well in this case you can choose what gender you physically identify with. The woman was uncomfortable because she thought there was a man in the changing room with her. If you don't understand the difference between that and race then there really isn't much more I can say.

 

[Kayabee]

We only have her word on what this person looked like. FWIW, I feel like if this person presented as a man there may have been a few more complaints or a few more women willing to come forward and support the woman who complained, but to my knowledge that didn't happen.

I think this woman took what she perceived to be an injustice towards her and ran with it. She probably embellished a little bit to make herself look less like a drama queen and bring people to her side, as people in the media often do.

If she didn't want people to see her changing, she could have used a stall or changed at home. If she disagreed with the policy, she could have switched gyms. PF doesn't have a contract the way other gyms do, at least the one near me doesn't. If she did have a contract, I'm sure they would have let her out of it.

However, she didn't ask to change gyms, she asked the gym and all the patrons who have no problem with their policy, to change for her own comfort. When that didn't work she turned to harassing people, which is not just obnoxious, but is an invasion of privacy.

All we have to go on is what is printed in that article, so that is what I'm basing my comments on.

I totally agree with you, the woman could have changed in the private stall. However, I don't know her history with men and I won't discount someone's feelings of being uncomfortable naked in the same area as someone of the (physical) opposite sex.
I think she had a vaild complaint about not knowing the policy before signing up. I think she was totally wrong in the way she handled it after her initial complaint. She should have left PF to find a gym that she was comfortable in.

 

[Dawnlight]

Here are photos of both the complainer and the trans woman

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...omen-s-locker-room-twice-hang-coat-purse.html

 

[mjkacmom]

Well in this case you can choose what gender you physically identify with. The woman was uncomfortable because she thought there was a man in the changing room with her. If you don't understand the difference between that and race then there really isn't much more I can say.

No, they don't choose what gender they identify with. Did you choose? I know I didn't. Gay people don't choose to be attracted to the same sex.

 

[Klismania]

The transphobia in this thread is quite alarming. Yikes.

Feeling like you were born in the wrong body is a pain most of us can never imagine. There's no reason to be hateful.

When you shut people down who want to have an open dialogue about a sensitive issue and who may say things that don't necessarily agree with your own POV, you yourself are contributing to the phobia. Congratulations for being part of the problem. When you call names and point fingers, people are forced to keep their thoughts to themselves, eventually becoming angry and even more bitter about the topic at hand and keeping the phobia going. Remember, just because you're offended doesn't mean you're automatically right.

This incident is a wonderful opportunity to discuss peoples comforts and discomforts with what happened. Instead of judging others yourself, why don't you give us time to get used to what's going on and work out how we feel about it? Just because someone says they're uncomfortable with it at this point in time doesn't mean they're not going to be fairly comfortable with it later. A large part of that changing of the mind would be because they talked about it with people who listened, empathized, and then brought up some points that the uncomfortable person may not have thought of.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Everyone mentions changing in a stall if you're uncomfortable being seen. Aside from the fact many locker rooms have no stalls, was this even the reason for the complaint? Is the problem that she didn't want him to see her naked? Or is the problem that she didn't want to see HIM naked?

 

[Kayabee]

No, they don't choose what gender they identify with. Did you choose? I know I didn't. Gay people don't choose to be attracted to the same sex.

You obviously missed the word "physically" in my post. A transgender woman can choose to live physically as a man or take the steps necessary to become a woman physically. That is what I meant, obviously they can't choose the way they feel but they most certainly can choose they way they look. And I'm talking about an adult with the means for surgery, not an infant out of the womb.

 

[mjkacmom]

You obviously missed the word "physically" in my post. A transgender woman can choose to live physically as a man or take the steps necessary to become a woman physically.

Or she can choose to keep her male bits (cost, fear of surgery, unwilling to have parts removed or changed), and live her life as a female. Many do.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Well in this case you can choose what gender you physically identify with.

You can also choose to be in the closet. That doesn't mean you aren't a homosexual.

 

[Kayabee]

Here are photos of both the complainer and the trans woman

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...omen-s-locker-room-twice-hang-coat-purse.html

She looks like woman to me. I wonder what made the woman complain, was it just that she looks taller and broader than herself?

Or she can choose to keep her male bits (cost, fear of surgery, unwilling to have parts removed or changed), and live her life as a female. Many do.

Yes she can, and that would be her right but that doesn't change the fact that she has a choice.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

You obviously missed the word "physically" in my post. A transgender woman can choose to live physically as a man or take the steps necessary to become a woman physically. That is what I meant, obviously they can't choose the way they feel but they most certainly can choose they way they look. And I'm talking about an adult with the means for surgery, not an infant out of the womb.

So is it better to get surgery just to conform to the expectations of others? What if you can't afford it? You have to continue to present as your assigned gender?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

She looks like woman to me. I wonder what made the woman complain, was it just that she looks taller and broader than herself?

Maybe it was the *****.

 

[Klismania]

Here are photos of both the complainer and the trans woman

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...omen-s-locker-room-twice-hang-coat-purse.html

And she looks like a man in woman's clothing to me. And she's dressed up. At a gym people mostly wear t-shirts, sweats, shorts, etc. Gender-neutral clothing. I can see why the woman who complained was surprised or taken aback when this transgender person walked in. I would have been, too.

However, if/when I said anything to management about it, if they had informed me that she was a transitioning man-to-woman, then I would have had to decide how I felt about sharing a locker room with her. The woman in the story may have gone too far and kept complaining - in which case Planet Fitness had every right to revoke her membership.

Regardless, I'm glad this happened. It's opening up the topic to lots of people who may not have had a platform on which to bring it up and become more familiar with transgender people. Most of us don't know any or have never encountered one.

 

[Dawnlight]

When you shut people down who want to have an open dialogue about a sensitive issue and who may say things that don't necessarily agree with your own POV, you yourself are contributing to the phobia. Congratulations for being part of the problem. When you call names and point fingers, people are forced to keep their thoughts to themselves, eventually becoming angry and even more bitter about the topic at hand and keeping the phobia going. Remember, just because you're offended doesn't mean you're automatically right.

This incident is a wonderful opportunity to discuss peoples comforts and discomforts with what happened. Instead of judging others yourself, why don't you give us time to get used to what's going on and work out how we feel about it? Just because someone says they're uncomfortable with it at this point in time doesn't mean they're not going to be fairly comfortable with it later. A large part of that changing of the mind would be because they talked about it with people who listened, empathized, and then brought up some points that the uncomfortable person may not have thought of.

You're right. People's thoughts and feelings about this issue can evolve; my own thoughts have over the years. Even the scientific community has evolved over the years; homosexuality was once thought to be a mental disease by psychologists and has since been declassified as such.

 

[Kayabee]

So is it better to get surgery just to conform to the expectations of others? What if you can't afford it? You have to continue to present as your assigned gender?

Are you purposely putting words in my mouth because you are looking for an argument?

I responded to a post about how not being able to chose your race and how it compares to not being able to choose what gender you are. All I did is simply state the fact that one can choose to PHYSICALLY change their gender to the one they identify with. I never stated my stance on it either way. If you want to know, I don't care what you do, if you happy with who you are and how you look, good for you. If you feel you need to alter your physical self to be more aligned with who you are then good for you too.
Good lord people, stop looking for an argument when there is nothing to argue about.

 

[perditax]

Transgender prejudice is the new gay prejudice. Soon we will achieve actual civilization. Perhaps in another few generations.

 

[Dawnlight]

And she looks like a man in woman's clothing to me. And she's dressed up. At a gym people mostly wear t-shirts, sweats, shorts, etc. Gender-neutral clothing. I can see why the woman who complained was surprised or taken aback when this transgender person walked in. I would have been, too.

However, if/when I said anything to management about it, if they had informed me that she was a transitioning man-to-woman, then I would have had to decide how I felt about sharing a locker room with her. The woman in the story may have gone too far and kept complaining - in which case Planet Fitness had every right to revoke her membership.

Regardless, I'm glad this happened. It's opening up the topic to lots of people who may not have had a platform on which to bring it up and become more familiar with transgender people. Most of us don't know any or have never encountered one.

The article states the transgender woman was in tights and over-sized t-shirt. These are photos from her Facebook account, not actual photos from how she was dressed at the gym. It also states that she was in there only to retrieve items, not to undress.

"Sklodowska now claims that she believes she is the transgender woman Cormier saw and that she had only used the changing area on two separate visits to hang her purse and coat and to pick up her items after working out."

"Sklodowska said she wore leggings and a baggy T-shirt on both gym trips. She added that she understood why Cormier would see her body structure as masculine, because many people tell her she looks like a man."