Transgender Gym Mess

[Gracie09]

Apples & penises. As of now, we separate restrooms & locker rooms based on sex. And by that I mean the physical characteristics of male vs female. When we as a society decide that we will no longer separate in this manner, it will no longer matter. But for now, the line is clear.

obviously its not. PP's son looks and acts male except for genitalia. What about intersex men. Men who have XXY chromosomes. They can have physical features of both men and women.

 

[Gracie09]

People of different colors LOOK different. People of different sexes ARE different.

sex and gender are two different thing. Fifty years ago, people would have said blacks and whites are different. The arguments made were the same.

 

[Gracie09]

You seriously don't see the difference?

In one case you are talking about men being uncomfortable with a teen who is physically a girl in a locker room.
In the other case you have men who are uncomfortable with another person who is an adult and physically a man in a locker room.
The reasoning behind the discomfort is completely different and coming from a completely different place.

And the same arguments were made about blacks and whites 50 years ago.

 

[TaylorEar]

You seriously don't see the difference?

In one case you are talking about men being uncomfortable with a teen who is physically a girl in a locker room.
In the other case you have men who are uncomfortable with another person who is an adult and physically a man in a locker room.
The reasoning behind the discomfort is completely different and coming from a completely different place.

I disagree. The reasoning behind the discomfort in both instances is/was ultimately coming from either: 1. bigotry or 2. a fear of the unknown

 

[Kayabee]

why not? because you grew up after the Civil Rights era of the 1960s? You are basing your judgement of someone on their physical appearance. How is it different?

Because one is about equality, and one is about the real physical differences between the male and female sexes.

And really why is race being thrown in, is because there hasn't been a race baiting headline out there, you need to try to make your own?

 

[aaarcher86]

I'm trying to figure out where the anti-trans people would have my 14 year old child go to change? He identifies (and looks) male. He is also attracted to males. He has girl parts. Where should he go?

How does the school handle this out of curiosity?

 

[Gracie09]

Because one is about equality, and one is about the real physical differences between the male and female sexes.

but not to someone 50 years ago. Fifty years ago they would make the same argument that blacks and whites were physically different.

 

[Dawnlight]

Honestly, I think many men would be very uncomfortable with a teen who is completely a female physically in the men's locker room.

How would they know unless they looked in their pants?

I don't understand this notion that people are interested in checking out one another's goods while using facilities. Do men stare at one another at the urinals or keep to their own business?

I'd hazard a guess that a transgendered female-to-male person using a male restroom would not try to use a urinal if they have ******. I'm pretty sure I can imagine that they'd opt for a seat.

 

[Kayabee]

but not to someone 50 years ago. Fifty years ago they would make the same argument that blacks and whites were physically different.

They would be wrong though. The differnce is a man and a woman are physically different. There is no comparison, stop trying to make one.

 

[sunshinehighway]

And the same arguments were made about blacks and whites 50 years ago.

Nope.

I disagree. The reasoning behind the discomfort in both instances is/was ultimately coming from either: 1. bigotry or 2. a fear of the unknown

I don't agree with that.

 

[TaylorEar]

How does the school handle this out of curiosity?

Each state is different, but most states are moving towards adopting similar policies as this one http://schools.nyc.gov/RulesPolicies/TransgenderStudentGuidelines/default.htm

 

[TaylorEar]

They would be wrong though. The differnce is a man and a woman are physically different. There is no comparison, stop trying to make one.

Are there not physical differences between different races?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Bottom line is this - inclusion can only take you so far. People can say, "they just want to be like everyone else". Well, they're not. How you choose to deal with that is up to you. You can celebrate the uniqueness, or try to pretend it doesn't exist. No skin off my neck.

But, I have a hard time believing someone who is physically a teen girl is going to be any more comfortable stripping down in a locker room full of men than those men are.

 

[sunshinehighway]

How would they know unless they looked in their pants?

I don't understand this notion that people are interested in checking out one another's goods while using facilities. Do men stare at one another at the urinals or keep to their own business?

I'd hazard a guess that a transgendered female-to-male person using a male restroom would not try to use a urinal if they have ******. I'm pretty sure I can imagine that they'd opt for a seat.

Men change and shower in locker rooms. No, all locker rooms do not have separate stalls for those things.
You really don't understand why adult men might feel uncomfortable with a teen who is physically a girl in there changing and showering with them? You can't see the issues that might create?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Are there not physical differences between different races?

Last time I checked, all the parts are in their normal places. And men of all colors can sire offspring with women of all colors.

 

[Dawnlight]

Men change and shower in locker rooms. No, all locker rooms do not have separate stalls for those things.
You really don't understand why adult men might feel uncomfortable with a teen who is physically a girl in there changing and showering with them? You can't see the issues that might create?

Yes, I understand that.

What you're failing to understand is that trans people fear for their own physical safety, I'm sure more than you or any other person fears being uncomfortable. What leads you to believe that they'd be reckless in this way? What makes you think they wouldn't be taking every precaution to protect their own privacy and safety?

 

[TaylorEar]

Last time I checked, all the parts are in their normal places. And men of all colors can sire offspring with women of all colors.

huh? so now it's about the ability to "sire offspring"?

 

[Kayabee]

Are there not physical differences between different races?

Of course there are just as there are physical differences between people of the same race, but we don't seperate our bathroom/changing areas based on differences in physical traits. We separate on differences of sex.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Yes, I understand that.

What you're failing to understand is that trans people fear for their own physical safety, I'm sure more than you or any other person fears being uncomfortable. What leads you to believe that they'd be reckless in this way? What makes you think they wouldn't be taking every precaution to protect their own privacy and safety?

Wouldn't changing in front of other people be the worst possible thing to do if that were the case?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

huh? so now it's about the ability to "sire offspring"?

Isn't that the whole point of there BEING 2 different sexes?