Transgender Gym Mess

[NHdisneylover]

So answer me this, do all of you who are ok with transgender people, who have not had surgery, changing in the locker room of the sex they identify with walk around your house nude in front of your opposite sex children? I don't because I don't feel it is appropriate. I also don't want my sons getting an anatomy lesson in the gym locker room.
So to answer the question that had been asked of others, yes I would be fine if a lesbian was changing next to me or if a gay guy was in the locker room with my son, as it has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

Well, I agree with everyone who is saying it is not really relevant or the same--espeically since the person in the OP was not even changing and the gym provides private stalls to change in and no child was involved in the situation, but I'll play:

When we lived in the US we had a hot tub. It is better for the chemical balance in the tub to not wear swimsuits in (due to detergent residue), plus it is just more convenient to pop in without dealing with getting suits out, having to hang them to dry later etc. And human bodies are just human bodies, so yep, we did use the hot tub in the nude.

Now we live in Germany. Most spas are clothing not allowed and many are all ages. One of our favourite local indoor pools with a wave pool, kiddie pools and multiple water slides also has a large spa area that is no clothing allowed in that entire section and is used by all ages. No one bats an eye or makes any kind of issue about the various human bodies in all shapes and sizes and of all ages.

Funny how when you don't make a giant deal about it, kids don't see any reason to care. People love to use "think of the children" to justify just about any paranoid reason to discriminate.

 

[Gracie09]

In order to assert that this applies in such cases, one would have believe that the choice to use any locker room, shower, bathroom (no matter how private or open) of one's own choosing, based on someone's particular mindset at that moment, is an inherent civil right... and that anyone that doesn't agree (or is uncomfortable) with that proposition is no better than someone that feels that women should be allowed to vote, or that an person-of-color shouldn't be allowed to use the same toilet as them. I'm not sure that history's gonna agree with that...

Using a locker room is a red herring. Its not about that per se. Its about the ability to live one's life as the gender they feel they should have been born. That includes the ability to wear the clothing they feel comfortable in without fear of repercussions. The ability to check the appropriate box identifying gender on an application or other form. Fifty years ago the idea that a black person could use the same drinking fountain, locker room, school etc was met with the same type of opposition and the belief that it would never happen. The same with women's rights. Voting is simply one right that they fought for. The right to own property, an education, jobs opportunities etc etc.

 

[Kayabee]

I don't think it's paranoia. The way Planet Fitness stated their policy does open that door. The policy uses the way the person is dressed, not the gender they identify with.

Is that the official policy or is that what one employee was quoted as saying to the woman who complained? I haven't been following this other than the article in the OP so I'm wondering if the actual policy is worded differently.

This is taken from a post that linked the article

She said the front desk employee told her about Planet Fitness' "no-judgment" policy, which allows people to use changing room based on "their sincere, self-reported gender identity."

So it isn't about the way one is dressed, its about their gender identity.

(
Sorry about the bold, I can't seem to un-bold

 

[mmmagique]

I'm trying to figure out where the anti-trans people would have my 14 year old child go to change? He identifies (and looks) male. He is also attracted to males. He has girl parts. Where should he go?

 

[Divah]

While I made my stance on how I feel about the subject and have no issues with it.

I do how ever believe it should be in the application what gender you live as and identify with ( it is not as simple as male or female anymore). It would go a long way in protecting those who feel like this lady. Knowing not just anyone who makes a claim they feel like "this " today can just walk in.

Everyone has a right to feel how they feel even those we disagree with. I am all for gender and transgender equality everyone deserves to be treated equally and respectfully.

Could it been handled better yes in my opinion.... use private stalls( if none available look at another gym)... ask about policy if it concerns your beliefs...due diligence is needed now a days in a world not so black and white.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'm trying to figure out where the anti-trans people would have my 14 year old child go to change? He identifies (and looks) male. He is also attracted to males. He has girl parts. Where should he go?

If it were "my" gym, the private "family" change room would be appropriate. In someone else's gym, wherever they say.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I'm trying to figure out where the anti-trans people would have my 14 year old child go to change? He identifies (and looks) male. He is also attracted to males. He has girl parts. Where should he go?

I think you are looking at what other posters are saying in the wrong way.
I don't think anyone has said they are "anti-trans"

 

[sunshinehighway]

I'm trying to figure out where the anti-trans people would have my 14 year old child go to change? He identifies (and looks) male. He is also attracted to males. He has girl parts. Where should he go?

Honestly, I think many men would be very uncomfortable with a teen who is completely a female physically in the men's locker room.

 

[Gracie09]

Honestly, I think many men would be very uncomfortable with a teen who is completely a female physically in the men's locker room.

Many white men probably weren't comfortable 50 years ago in a locker room with black men. So the comfort level of the other men or boys in the room is more important than the transgender teen.

 

[SLP958]

now that is just gross.

Who wants to see a bunch of naked strangers?

Well, I agree with everyone who is saying it is not really relevant or the same--espeically since the person in the OP was not even changing and the gym provides private stalls to change in and no child was involved in the situation, but I'll play:

When we lived in the US we had a hot tub. It is better for the chemical balance in the tub to not wear swimsuits in (due to detergent residue), plus it is just more convenient to pop in without dealing with getting suits out, having to hang them to dry later etc. And human bodies are just human bodies, so yep, we did use the hot tub in the nude.

Now we live in Germany. Most spas are clothing not allowed and many are all ages. One of our favourite local indoor pools with a wave pool, kiddie pools and multiple water slides also has a large spa area that is no clothing allowed in that entire section and is used by all ages. No one bats an eye or makes any kind of issue about the various human bodies in all shapes and sizes and of all ages.

Funny how when you don't make a giant deal about it, kids don't see any reason to care. People love to use "think of the children" to justify just about any paranoid reason to discriminate.[/Q

Now that is just gross.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Many white men probably weren't comfortable 50 years ago in a locker room with black men. So the comfort level of the other men or boys in the room is more important than the transgender teen.

That's a ridiculous comparison. It doesn't even make sense to compare the two

 

[Geoff_M]

Using a locker room is a red herring. Its not about that per se. Its about the ability to live one's life as the gender they feel they should have been born.

That sounds all well and good, but the problems arise when one person's perceived "rights" conflict with another's. I'm not referring to specifically to the Planet Fitness case (being a private business, they can set what rules they want to... as things stand now), but as you've positioned it as a inherent civil right. As such, it would now longer be a choice, but a requirement that all facility (regardless of configuration) would be open to anyone... period. The only "option" someone that would be uncomfortable with this arrangement would have would be only use such facilities at private residences or places that were not public accommodations. That doesn't sound like an very equitable proposition to me, one that is just as unjust as the situation you decry now.

 

[Gracie09]

That's a ridiculous comparison. It doesn't even make sense to compare the two

why not? because you grew up after the Civil Rights era of the 1960s? You are basing your judgement of someone on their physical appearance. How is it different?

 

[Divah]

now that is just gross.

Who wants to see a bunch of naked strangers?

Not that it is relevant to this story or the op... but while stationed in Japan I went often to an onsen....was amazing ...many cultures still do this.

 

[Gracie09]

That sounds all well and good, but the problems arise when one person's perceived "rights" conflict with another's. I'm not referring to specifically to the Planet Fitness case (being a private business, they can set what rules they want to... as things stand now), but as you've positioned it as a inherent civil right. As such, it would now longer be a choice, but a requirement that all facility (regardless of configuration) would be open to anyone... period. The only "option" someone that would be uncomfortable with this arrangement would have would be only use such facilities at private residences or places that were not public accommodations. That doesn't sound like an very equitable proposition to me, one that is just as unjust as the situation you decry now.

Actually its a place of public accommodation, not a private business. Just like a restaurant, store, etc etc. A private residence is just that, a private dwelling. The only option for someone who was uncomfortable sitting next to a black person 50 years ago was to go elsewhere.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/12181

 

[NHdisneylover]

now that is just gross.

Who wants to see a bunch of naked strangers?

No one goes to see naked strangers--they go to enjoy the warm saunas, humid salt rooms, etc. And I am not really sure what makes it any more gross than seeing strangers in swimsuits (which are often ill fitting), other than it is simply not what you are used to.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Many white men probably weren't comfortable 50 years ago in a locker room with black men. So the comfort level of the other men or boys in the room is more important than the transgender teen.

Apples & penises. As of now, we separate restrooms & locker rooms based on sex. And by that I mean the physical characteristics of male vs female. When we as a society decide that we will no longer separate in this manner, it will no longer matter. But for now, the line is clear.

 

[sunshinehighway]

why not? because you grew up after the Civil Rights era of the 1960s? You are basing your judgement of someone on their physical appearance. How is it different?

You seriously don't see the difference?

In one case you are talking about men being uncomfortable with a teen who is physically a girl in a locker room.
In the other case you have men who are uncomfortable with another person who is an adult and physically a man in a locker room.
The reasoning behind the discomfort is completely different and coming from a completely different place.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

why not? because you grew up after the Civil Rights era of the 1960s? You are basing your judgement of someone on their physical appearance. How is it different?

People of different colors LOOK different. People of different sexes ARE different.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I'm trying to figure out where the anti-trans people would have my 14 year old child go to change? He identifies (and looks) male. He is also attracted to males. He has girl parts. Where should he go?

The women's locker room or the family locker room. It may not be ideal for your 14yo child to change in a men's locker room, just as a matter of safety.

My 18yodd indentifies herself as trans as well, she calls herself "fluid", however her safety is my concern first and foremost. I do not trust people to show compassion to trans people.