Transgender Gym Mess

[sunshinehighway]

There is a difference between dressing up in traditional opposite sex clothing and being transgendered. Generally those that aren't transgendered don't go out in public dressed that way. I find it ironic that on a board where people will defend their "right" to bring their tween and teen sons into the women's room, those same people would have a problem with a transgendered woman in the women's room. Why is one ***** ok but the other not

I don't think its ok for tween and teen boys to be in a women's restroom.

People do go out in public dressed as the opposite sex and those people aren't necessarily transgender.

 

[BlovesC]

But this was a man dressing up (poorly) as a woman. Still has a *****.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? You seem to be confusing transgendered with transvestite. The woman complained because she made a snap judgment on the transgendered woman's appearance. She didn't see her genitalia nor did she say anything about her genitalia. She simply appeared 'too masculine', which is something she could have said about any number of women.

The issue is can anyone just claim "I am a woman today!", put on a wig and leopard pants and walk into a dressing room?

Are we living in a Bugs Bunny cartoon? Do you honestly think there is a legitimate threat of non-transgendered persons doing this to illicitly gain access to other dressing rooms? To see some sweaty 48 year-old woman changing from jeans to yoga pants?

We are looking at articles on this thread of people that change their sex daily. Of people who pretend to be female to gain access to an all girls' college and then change to male and demand 130 year old traditions be altered for them.

No, you're looking at anecdotes. Stories beginning with "my third cousin's bf's sister went to school with someone who..." on an internet forum are not scientific proof that this is an epidemic sweeping the nation.

So answer me this, do all of you who are ok with transgender people, who have not had surgery, changing in the locker room of the sex they identify with walk around your house nude in front of your opposite sex children? I don't because I don't feel it is appropriate. I also don't want by sons getting an anatomy lesson in the gym locker room.

Good grief. Does anyone on this thread belong to a gym and go regularly? I do, to a PF branch, actually. I have never seen anyone fully nude wandering around the locker room. Women wear robes/towels to the shower, and change discreetly underneath them when done, or they go to a stall. I myself perfected the art of the quick change in middle school...I never just stop and stretch and brew some tea or lounge on a bench while in the middle of changing.

But yes, won't someone think of the children!

 

[TaylorEar]

So answer me this, do all of you who are ok with transgender people, who have not had surgery, changing in the locker room of the sex they identify with walk around your house nude in front of your opposite sex children? I don't because I don't feel it is appropriate. I also don't want by sons getting an anatomy lesson in the gym locker room.
So to answer the question that had been asked of others, yes I would be fine if a lesbian women was changing next to me or if a gay guy was in the locker room with my son, as it has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

The woman in question was not walking around in the locker room naked... she walked in to grab her bag and walked out. She was fully clothed the entire time. If you make the choice to shield your children from the facts of anatomy (which has nothing to do with sexual orientation) that is your choice, and has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.

 

[Kayabee]

So answer me this, do all of you who are ok with transgender people, who have not had surgery, changing in the locker room of the sex they identify with walk around your house nude in front of your opposite sex children? I don't because I don't feel it is appropriate. I also don't want my sons getting an anatomy lesson in the gym locker room.
So to answer the question that had been asked of others, yes I would be fine if a lesbian was changing next to me or if a gay guy was in the locker room with my son, as it has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

I don't walk around nude in my house at all, I take my clothes off in the bedroom or the bathroom since those are the designated rooms for that so that is really a moot point.
Its just a body, what is it you fear about your child seeing someone nude?

 

[Gracie09]

So answer me this, do all of you who are ok with transgender people, who have not had surgery, changing in the locker room of the sex they identify with walk around your house nude in front of your opposite sex children? I don't because I don't feel it is appropriate. I also don't want my sons getting an anatomy lesson in the gym locker room.
So to answer the question that had been asked of others, yes I would be fine if a lesbian was changing next to me or if a gay guy was in the locker room with my son, as it has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

I don't walk around naked in front of my same sex children.
My husband has been known to get up with our girls wearing boxer shorts. But at five they know boys have penises and girls have vaginas. They know mommy has breasts and some day they will too. It's really isn't a big deal.

 

[Gracie09]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? You seem to be confusing transgendered with transvestite. The woman complained because she made a snap judgment on the transgendered woman's appearance. She didn't see her genitalia nor did she say anything about her genitalia. She simply appeared 'too masculine', which is something she could have said about any number of women.



Are we living in a Bugs Bunny cartoon? Do you honestly think there is a legitimate threat of non-transgendered persons doing this to illicitly gain access to other dressing rooms? To see some sweaty 48 year-old woman changing from jeans to yoga pants?




No, you're looking at anecdotes. Stories beginning with "my third cousin's bf's sister went to school with someone who..." on an internet forum are not scientific proof that this is an epidemic sweeping the nation.




Good grief. Does anyone on this thread belong to a gym and go regularly? I do, to a PF branch, actually. I have never seen anyone fully nude wandering around the locker room. Women wear robes/towels to the shower, and change discreetly underneath them when done, or they go to a stall. I myself perfected the art of the quick change in middle school...I never just stop and stretch and brew some tea or lounge on a bench while in the middle of changing.

But yes, won't someone think of the children!

Thank you. I was wondering if I was missing a party in the locker room at the gym. I just go in shower and change, if that. I don't lounge. I don't chat. I don't even remember being completely naked except in a shower stall.

 

[TaylorEar]

also... to be clear (because there seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread)

biological sex (anatomy)
gender identity
sexual orientation

These are all different, individual things, that are mostly unrelated (yes, our culture ties biological sex to gender identity, but the reality is that gender role socialization plays a much larger role in gender identity than anatomy does). I think it's really important to understand the distinction in order to be able to contribute to the conversation in any sort of meaningful way.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? You seem to be confusing transgendered with transvestite.

No. I am not.

 

[sunshinehighway]

also... to be clear (because there seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread)

biological sex (anatomy)
gender identity
sexual orientation

These are all different, individual things, that are mostly unrelated (yes, our culture ties biological sex to gender identity, but the reality is that gender role socialization plays a much larger role in gender identity than anatomy does). I think it's really important to understand the distinction in order to be able to contribute to the conversation in any sort of meaningful way.

I don't think anyone is confused on the differences between those things.
It's hard to have a meaningful conversation when someone talks down to others and treats them like they are stupid.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

No, you're looking at anecdotes. Stories beginning with "my third cousin's bf's sister went to school with someone who..." on an internet forum are not scientific proof that this is an epidemic sweeping the nation.

No. I am not. I am looking at well written articles with first person interviews about men who pretended to be women to gain access to girls' colleges. They then went to that college, announced that they really were male and started making demands to fit their male gender.

Where does it end?

Entitlement works both ways. Who wins?

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

So answer me this, do all of you who are ok with transgender people, who have not had surgery, changing in the locker room of the sex they identify with walk around your house nude in front of your opposite sex children? I don't because I don't feel it is appropriate. I also don't want my sons getting an anatomy lesson in the gym locker room.
So to answer the question that had been asked of others, yes I would be fine if a lesbian was changing next to me or if a gay guy was in the locker room with my son, as it has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

Children aren't allowed in the locker room at my gym(or any I have belonged to). That's what this thread is about right?

But I'll play along anyway... I don't care if my kids see someone of the opposite sex naked. It's a body. Nothing more, nothing less. We have taught our children modesty(one got the lesson a little more than the other ) but they know about the human form in a non-sexual anatomical way. I wouldn't have an issue explaining, the best I can, a pre-op person's body.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

So answer me this, do all of you who are ok with transgender people, who have not had surgery, changing in the locker room of the sex they identify with walk around your house nude in front of your opposite sex children?

You honestly don't see a difference?

 

[TaylorEar]

I don't think anyone is confused on the differences between those things.
It's hard to have a meaningful conversation when someone talks down to others and treats them like they are stupid.

You may not be confused on the differences... but there have been many posts in this thread that indicate that people are definitely confused.

Not trying to talk down... just attempting to meet people where they appear to be (based on their posts).

 

[Kayabee]

You may not be confused on the differences... but there have been many posts in this thread that indicate that people are definitely confused.

Not trying to talk down... just attempting to meet people where they appear to be (based on their posts).

I don't think they are confused, I think they are paranoid about this opening the door for transvestites, or perverts who want to see naked people, to start to take advantage of policies where people can go into locker rooms that match the gender they identify with.
At least that is the impression I get from some of the posts here.

 

[TaylorEar]

I don't think they are confused, I think they are paranoid about this opening the door for transvestites, or perverts who want to see naked people, to start to take advantage of policies where people can go into locker rooms that match the gender they identify with.
At least that is the impression I get from some of the posts here.

Eh - I think those arguments are completely ridiculous, which leads me to believe they are disingenuous and purely baiting in nature. Apart from those posts, there have been several others that have used the terms that I mentioned interchangeably, which is a common mistake if you aren't familiar with the differences (specifically; anatomy and gender identity).

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I don't think they are confused, I think they are paranoid about this opening the door for transvestites, or perverts who want to see naked people, to start to take advantage of policies where people can go into locker rooms that match the gender they identify with.
At least that is the impression I get from some of the posts here.

I think this is spot on and even goes beyond fears at the gym. It's just fear in general. A lot of comments on here are about people "pretending" to be one gender for many dubious reasons:entering a locker room, getting into college, whatever suits their needs. Then flipping once they've gotten it.

IMHO this shows a lack of understanding about not only how trans and gender neutral people identify, but with the stigma, fear and danger that comes with being a trans person.

Violence (including sexual) against trans people is far higher than trans people against gender normative people and a very real threat to those who identify as trans.

most people who have ill intentions and want to assault or look at women (and clearly this is rampant so men who do this already have a way) will not to do so by pretending to be trans to get into the bathroom.

 

[Divah]

So answer me this, do all of you who are ok with transgender people, who have not had surgery, changing in the locker room of the sex they identify with walk around your house nude in front of your opposite sex children? I don't because I don't feel it is appropriate. I also don't want my sons getting an anatomy lesson in the gym locker room.
So to answer the question that had been asked of others, yes I would be fine if a lesbian was changing next to me or if a gay guy was in the locker room with my son, as it has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

What does my home and children have in correlation with the topic of a gym? I do not know about the gym you belong to but we belong to power house and children under 16 are not allowed in with out written permission.

As for my home....I am a gracious host and if I had a transgender guest , I Cant fathom a situation where that would be an issue in any stretch of my imagination.....to even use as a foreseeable argument...

I personally feel that they should use the changing rooms they identify with and live as on a daily basis. I wear a robe and not lounging on the benches nude ...sorry not like in the movies no naked chit chat or towel fights and giggling....we get dressed as quick and discreetly as possible and most go and get on with the day. I found most are trying to squeeze in a gym visit before or after work and we do our work out, shower, change and be on our way.

I could very well have had this situation and not really noticed or cared. To each there own I respect each individual for who they are not what they were born with.

I can understand how some may be upset and you can spin a scenario to any situation and ask what if...but this was a specific situation not a what if...and in this specific situation I would not be concerned.

 

[mjkacmom]

Funny story. When my twins were 4, they took swimming lessons with a bunch of friends. It was at the kiddie Y, and kids under a certain age were supposed to go into the locker room with a parent, so ds came into the girls locker room. On the first day, his friend Emily got quite an eyeful, having 2 sisters - she couldn't stop staring!

Anyway, most people don't walk around locker rooms nude, and if I had to bet on those who wouldn't, I'm betting that the transgendered crowd would be the least likely to do so.

 

[Geoff_M]

I believe it was James Madison who said (and I paraphrase) we must protect the rights of the few from the tyranny of the many. Just because transgendered people are a minority does not make their rights any less significant than your rights. If throughout history we allowed the rights of the majority to prevail, things like women voting, the civil rights movement, the Ada, all would not have happened.

In order to assert that this applies in such cases, one would have believe that the choice to use any locker room, shower, bathroom (no matter how private or open) of one's own choosing, based on someone's particular mindset at that moment, is an inherent civil right... and that anyone that doesn't agree (or is uncomfortable) with that proposition is no better than someone that feels that women should be allowed to vote, or that an person-of-color shouldn't be allowed to use the same toilet as them. I'm not sure that history's gonna agree with that...

 

[sunshinehighway]

I don't think they are confused, I think they are paranoid about this opening the door for transvestites, or perverts who want to see naked people, to start to take advantage of policies where people can go into locker rooms that match the gender they identify with.
At least that is the impression I get from some of the posts here.

I don't think it's paranoia. The way Planet Fitness stated their policy does open that door. The policy uses the way the person is dressed, not the gender they identify with.