To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[DopeyBadger]

From Strava discussion:

"@canglim52 Wow!! And that makes a lot of sense. What was your starting VO2max? If I could gain 20-30% I'd be a very happy man Is Garmin's LT Test close enough for a beginner like me? I have no clue where my LT is right now, I just know it's in the 170's."

Christian, my starting VO2max is a very loaded question. I have never had a lab based VO2max assessment. So all of my data is based on my Garmin 620/235's estimated value. It's important to understand how the Garmin calculates the VO2max. It uses age, HRmax, HR data, and pace at said HR data. Together it uses these values to calculate pace at %HR and then compare it to a dataset of 79 people with 2690 workouts. It uses that information to put you on a line of best fit for a VO2max estimation. But the HRmax data is critical for an accurate Garmin estimate. The error for the test subjects was about 3.5 on the VO2max score or roughly 5% from Garmin estimate to lab based assessment. But the accuracy of the HRmax data can make the error vary by as much as -9% to +7% dependent on how bad the HRmax is off from reality (again based on the 79 test subjects). So you could get a value of 50, but if your HRmax is wrong, then your real value could lie anywhere between 45 to 54. For the VO2max estimate, thats seems like a pretty wide estimate range, given a 45 VO2max estimates a marathon of 3:41 vs a 54 at 3:03. With that being said, if one were to never change their HRmax data then you could always compare to your previous values to see improvement. You may have the wrong value, but you could reasonably say your value went up by 10% (if 40 to 44 without adjusting HRmax between). So with that being said, I started running in June 2012. I received my Garmin 620 in Dec 2014 during my Dopey 2015 taper. My initial value was 48. I know from recent history that during a marathon taper my value drops by about 1-2 points. When I started my Hansons training in June 2015 it was 47/50. I can't be positive whether I did or did not change the HRmax during that time. I know I did consistently change it based on data I received during training runs (as well as the resting HR data). In October 2015, my last reading was a 53 before my chest strap stopped working. I ran with someone else's chest strap once in March 2016, and had a value of 54, but because of the extremely limited data set on one training run it can't be trusted fully. In Nov 2016, I got my Garmin 235 (now optical instead of chest strap). I changed my HRmax to 195 because that was the highest value I had seen my Garmin output that had a reasonable increase/decrease before and after it to suggest it might be real. My VO2max then climbed to as high as 61 (mid-December) around the same time I believe I hit my peak. As you know per my journal, I recently reassessed my HRmax based on my historical HR averages for certain race distances. I compared those values to the USATF and Jack Daniels table of %HRR and race distances to estimate my HRmax based on my personal performance. My races suggested that instead of 195, or 189 (220-age), my HRmax was probably between 170-180. So I changed my Garmin 235 to a HRmax of 180. My VO2max score steadily dropped from 61 down to 52 (partially because of this change and partially because of recovery time post-Dopey 2017). The score has started to rebound to 53-54 in the last week or so. Since there is a ton of wiggle room in the Garmin's estimate of VO2max I much prefer my method of assessing improvement by personally graphing my HR from training runs relative to the pace at which they were run. While the Garmin's VO2max value is dependent on HRmax, my system is not. As you know it has also allowed me to create a personalized race predicting calculator based on historical race HR data and a logarithmic curve on my last two weeks of HR training data. The best performance the calculator gave me was Oct 2015 when I finally broke 4 hours. I trained for 3:45 (set based on my HM PR at the beginning of training, even though I had yet to reach that race equivalency in a marathon). McMillan predicted 3:42 based on my recent HM only 6 weeks prior. My HR race prediction calculator said 3:38. I ran a 3:38. Although more recently the calculator hasn't been as accurate, although I believe external forces played roles in the inaccuracy of those (wind, injury, and Dopey other races). So if I were you and hadn't received an lab based VO2max you could do like I do and track HR vs pace personally. The change seen there will show you the improvement you're looking for. As you know I posted the picture on my run on Strava on 2/26/17 (since you follow my journal you're quite familiar with that graph). I have no idea on the accuracy of Garmin's LT test or how it is calculated for either a beginner or experienced person. However, I do know that the real sweet spot of training (if you believe Thomas Schwartz) is about 1-2% faster than LT. This pace zone allows you to train both VO2max and LT concurrently. Although it's really critical you know your LT and VO2max accurately because this is a very tight window. The typical workouts associated with this pace zone are 800m, 1000m, 1600m, 2000m, or 3000m repeats with resting intervals of 1 min per 1000m (hence 2000m is 2 min rest). The total distance of intervals should be between 4-6 miles but maintaining a balance of 6-8% of weekly mileage at this pace (known as Critical Velocity). Just two simple question leads to a wall of text. Typical Blaser response....

Here is the white paper from Garmin (link)

 

[canglim52]

From Strava discussion:

"@canglim52 Wow!! And that makes a lot of sense. What was your starting VO2max? If I could gain 20-30% I'd be a very happy man Is Garmin's LT Test close enough for a beginner like me? I have no clue where my LT is right now, I just know it's in the 170's."

Christian, my starting VO2max is a very loaded question. I have never had a lab based VO2max assessment. So all of my data is based on my Garmin 620/235's estimated value. It's important to understand how the Garmin calculates the VO2max. It uses age, HRmax, HR data, and pace at said HR data. Together it uses these values to calculate pace at %HR and then compare it to a dataset of 79 people with 2690 workouts. It uses that information to put you on a line of best fit for a VO2max estimation. But the HRmax data is critical for an accurate Garmin estimate. The error for the test subjects was about 3.5 on the VO2max score or roughly 5% from Garmin estimate to lab based assessment. But the accuracy of the HRmax data can make the error vary by as much as -9% to +7% dependent on how bad the HRmax is off from reality (again based on the 79 test subjects). So you could get a value of 50, but if your HRmax is wrong, then your real value could lie anywhere between 45 to 54. For the VO2max estimate, thats seems like a pretty wide estimate range, given a 45 VO2max estimates a marathon of 3:41 vs a 54 at 3:03. With that being said, if one were to never change their HRmax data then you could always compare to your previous values to see improvement. You may have the wrong value, but you could reasonably say your value went up by 10% (if 40 to 44 without adjusting HRmax between). So with that being said, I started running in June 2012. I received my Garmin 620 in Dec 2014 during my Dopey 2015 taper. My initial value was 48. I know from recent history that during a marathon taper my value drops by about 1-2 points. When I started my Hansons training in June 2015 it was 47/50. I can't be positive whether I did or did not change the HRmax during that time. I know I did consistently change it based on data I received during training runs (as well as the resting HR data). In October 2015, my last reading was a 53 before my chest strap stopped working. I ran with someone else's chest strap once in March 2016, and had a value of 54, but because of the extremely limited data set on one training run it can't be trusted fully. In Nov 2016, I got my Garmin 235 (now optical instead of chest strap). I changed my HRmax to 195 because that was the highest value I had seen my Garmin output that had a reasonable increase/decrease before and after it to suggest it might be real. My VO2max then climbed to as high as 61 (mid-December) around the same time I believe I hit my peak. As you know per my journal, I recently reassessed my HRmax based on my historical HR averages for certain race distances. I compared those values to the USATF and Jack Daniels table of %HRR and race distances to estimate my HRmax based on my personal performance. My races suggested that instead of 195, or 189 (220-age), my HRmax was probably between 170-180. So I changed my Garmin 235 to a HRmax of 180. My VO2max score steadily dropped from 61 down to 52 (partially because of this change and partially because of recovery time post-Dopey 2017). The score has started to rebound to 53-54 in the last week or so. Since there is a ton of wiggle room in the Garmin's estimate of VO2max I much prefer my method of assessing improvement by personally graphing my HR from training runs relative to the pace at which they were run. While the Garmin's VO2max value is dependent on HRmax, my system is not. As you know it has also allowed me to create a personalized race predicting calculator based on historical race HR data and a logarithmic curve on my last two weeks of HR training data. The best performance the calculator gave me was Oct 2015 when I finally broke 4 hours. I trained for 3:45 (set based on my HM PR at the beginning of training, even though I had yet to reach that race equivalency in a marathon). McMillan predicted 3:42 based on my recent HM only 6 weeks prior. My HR race prediction calculator said 3:38. I ran a 3:38. Although more recently the calculator hasn't been as accurate, although I believe external forces played roles in the inaccuracy of those (wind, injury, and Dopey other races). So if I were you and hadn't received an lab based VO2max you could do like I do and track HR vs pace personally. The change seen there will show you the improvement you're looking for. As you know I posted the picture on my run on Strava on 2/26/17 (since you follow my journal you're quite familiar with that graph). I have no idea on the accuracy of Garmin's LT test or how it is calculated for either a beginner or experienced person. However, I do know that the real sweet spot of training (if you believe Thomas Schwartz) is about 1-2% faster than LT. This pace zone allows you to train both VO2max and LT concurrently. Although it's really critical you know your LT and VO2max accurately because this is a very tight window. The typical workouts associated with this pace zone are 800m, 1000m, 1600m, 2000m, or 3000m repeats with resting intervals of 1 min per 1000m (hence 2000m is 2 min rest). The total distance of intervals should be between 4-6 miles but maintaining a balance of 6-8% of weekly mileage at this pace (known as Critical Velocity). Just two simple question leads to a wall of text. Typical Blaser response....

Here is the white paper from Garmin (link)

Thanks for the great answer! Improving from 48 to 61 is rather impressive. I agree you could benifit, especially now that you really need to maximize your ROI to improve. 182 is the max I've hit in a race, but I don't think that's my max. I haven't honestly tried to hit my max HR, but I'd guess its in the 190's. I think I'm going to do a lactate threshold test with the Garmin before my next training cycle starts. If my lactate threshold comes in high, how does that affect my training?(my best current guess is 172-174)

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thanks for the great answer! Improving from 48 to 61 is rather impressive. I agree you could benifit, especially now that you really need to maximize your ROI to improve. 182 is the max I've hit in a race, but I don't think that's my max. I haven't honestly tried to hit my max HR, but I'd guess its in the 190's. I think I'm going to do a lactate threshold test with the Garmin before my next training cycle starts. If my lactate threshold comes in high, how does that affect my training?(my best current guess is 172-174)

My guess is that the improvement of 48 to 61 is just a red herring (because of the ever changing RHR and MaxHR). Based on the HR data I'm receiving right now, I'm not far off from the mid-Dec peak. But yet adjusting my max HR from 195 to 180 has dropped my Garmin estimated VO2max from 61 to 54. We'll see.

You could try and do the same with your HRs from races and compare to the USATF table to see an estimate of HRmax. But since you're rather new to running, I'd venture to guess you're not close to your potential yet.

If your LT pace is at a HR of 172-174, then your critical velocity is probably in the 174-176 range (just 1% higher). This is a guess based on the literature I've read. I wasn't planning on incorporating this type of training into your next cycle, but if you want me to try and work through the math of CV I can try and come up with something specific to you. Do you have any recent paces at 174-176? I would try and figure it out based on "race pace for 45 min" as well and see how they compare. Remember this is a very tight window so if we miss the mark, then instead of concurrent work on LT and VO2max we would then be exclusive in one or the either.

 

[canglim52]

My guess is that the improvement of 48 to 61 is just a red herring (because of the ever changing RHR and MaxHR). Based on the HR data I'm receiving right now, I'm not far off from the mid-Dec peak. But yet adjusting my max HR from 195 to 180 has dropped my Garmin estimated VO2max from 61 to 54. We'll see.

61 May not be the correct VO2max, but if the settings were the similar when you recorded your 48, wouldn't the improvement be legit?

You could try and do the same with your HRs from races and compare to the USATF table to see an estimate of HRmax. But since you're rather new to running, I'd venture to guess you're not close to your potential yet.

I don't think my data is accurate enough. I averaged nearly the same HR for my 10k as my HM. I've haven't approached my max HR yet. It gets really uncomfortable to run past 180 even though I think I can.

If your LT pace is at a HR of 172-174, then your critical velocity is probably in the 174-176 range (just 1% higher). This is a guess based on the literature I've read. I wasn't planning on incorporating this type of training into your next cycle, but if you want me to try and work through the math of CV I can try and come up with something specific to you. Do you have any recent paces at 174-176? I would try and figure it out based on "race pace for 45 min" as well and see how they compare. Remember this is a very tight window so if we miss the mark, then instead of concurrent work on LT and VO2max we would then be exclusive in one or the either.

If you think this will improve our ROI on training then I'm all for it. I don't have much data with me running above 160's unless we go back pre training cycle last year. My average Tempo HR is in the mid/low 150's, and Speed was in the 160's. I ran my 10k with an average HR of 169 and my half was at 167. I'm going to do a LT threshold test today and I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[canglim52]

So my test results came back with a LT at 172 bpm @ 8:11. I think I could do a little better if I knew what to expect and was a little more fit, but I think it's accurate enough.

 

[DopeyBadger]

61 May not be the correct VO2max, but if the settings were the similar when you recorded your 48, wouldn't the improvement be legit?

Yea the setting were consistent between those two. I definitely changed the max HR in between those, but I can't remember what I set them at. I've definitely improved, but it's hard to place an accurate assessment on VO2max start and now for me.

If I use Daniels VDOT scoring system which is based on PRs, then I have gone from a 30 to a 48/49.

I don't think my data is accurate enough. I averaged nearly the same HR for my 10k as my HM. I've haven't approached my max HR yet. It gets really uncomfortable to run past 180 even though I think I can.

Sounds about right as max HR is well, max. So it shouldn't feel very good when getting close to it.

If you think this will improve our ROI on training then I'm all for it. I don't have much data with me running above 160's unless we go back pre training cycle last year. My average Tempo HR is in the mid/low 150's, and Speed was in the 160's. I ran my 10k with an average HR of 169 and my half was at 167. I'm going to do a LT threshold test today and I'll let you know how it goes.

Sounds about right.

So my test results came back with a LT at 172 bpm @ 8:11. I think I could do a little better if I knew what to expect and was a little more fit, but I think it's accurate enough.

Sounds good. With a -1-2% difference that means your estimated CV (critical velocity) would be a 8:01-8:06 min/mile training pace. So we can set training paces once per week around that number.

 

[canglim52]

Yea the setting were consistent between those two. I definitely changed the max HR in between those, but I can't remember what I set them at. I've definitely improved, but it's hard to place an accurate assessment on VO2max start and now for me.

If I use Daniels VDOT scoring system which is based on PRs, then I have gone from a 30 to a 48/49.



Sounds about right as max HR is well, max. So it shouldn't feel very good when getting close to it.



Sounds about right.



Sounds good. With a -1-2% difference that means your estimated CV (critical velocity) would be a 8:01-8:06 min/mile training pace. So we can set training paces once per week around that number.

Perfect! If it needs to be exact, I don't mind doing it one more time tomorrow. My legs are finally feeling fresh, and I'm excited to start training again

 

[DopeyBadger]

Perfect! If it needs to be exact, I don't mind doing it one more time tomorrow. My legs are finally feeling fresh, and I'm excited to start training again

No need, as the McMillan prediction based on your HM PR is very close to the LT test you did today.

 

[DopeyBadger]

103 Days to Go (I haven't drank any alcohol in a long time, but I decided I needed some Jack Daniels in my life!)



Date - Day - Scheduled Workout (Intervals within desired pace, Strength +/- 5 sec, everything else +/- 10 sec)

2/28/17 - T - 2 mi @ WU + (4x200m @ R w/ 200m RI) + (6x400m @ R w/400m RI) + (4x200m @ R w/ 200m RI) + 3 mi @ CD (11/14)
3/1/17 - W - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile
3/2/17 - R - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile + 6 strides
3/3/17 - F - 2 mi @ WU + 4 x 200 @ R w/ 200 RI @ WU + 4 x 1 @ T w/ 1 min rest + 4 x 200 @ R w/ 200 RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD (11/12)
3/4/17 - Sat - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile + 6 strides + MBW
3/5/17 - Sun - 13 miles @ 8:04 min/mile (13/13)
3/6/17 - M - OFF

Total (training) mileage = 54.8 miles
Number of SOS intervals within pace = 35/39 (90%)

Tuesday was time for a new training cycle! It was a near perfect evening for running. A 40F WC, with very little wind, a slight to dense fog over time. Goal Pace for R is 5:52 min/mile (approximately mile pace, although my PR is 6:24). AHHH, a 5... For 200m that's 44 seconds and 400m is 88 seconds. My goal is to hit these +/- 1 second, so 43-45 seconds for 200m and 87-89 seconds for 400m. I am choosing to run these Quality Speed workouts on the road rather than the track since my racing will be on the road as well. To ensure accuracy, I have satellite mapped out 200m and 400m. I will use the lap button based on man-made markers to ensure distance accuracy so I don't rely on the inaccurate GPS signal of the watch.

First 200m set - 4/4 (45, 45, 43, 43)
400m set - 4/6 (86, 87, 89, 90, 89, 89)
Second 200m set - 3/4 (46, 44, 44, 44)

I'm shocked I hit 11/14 paces overall since I've never attempted to run this fast ever before (either actual pace or relative fitness pace). Regardless, this was a very tough workout and I feel like I got nailed by a truck. FUN!

A strava friend @Keith Kuisick commented that I should get my HR and VO2max tested. And I agree! My wife planned on gifting me a VO2max test 2 years ago for my birthday and I told her I wasn't ready yet. That it would have been nice, but not necessary. Now I feel differently. I feel I'm getting close to my max and thus think now is a great time to get it tested. My local hospital (UW Hospital) offers the service as part of their Exercise Science Lab (link).

"The data provided to the athlete includes:

• Rate of oxygen consumption
• Heart rate response and power output during progressive exercise to fatigue
• Maximal heart rate
• Anaerobic threshold (AT)
• Heart rate at anaerobic threshold
• Percent of VO2 max at onset of AT
• A five-zone training profile based on power output, heart rate and oxygen consumption."

I think the really useful information for me will be the relationship of AT (or LT) and VO2max. It'll really give me a good idea how much more I can improve and a good idea as to what my full potential is. Because I've put in about 7000 miles in my running career there is likely little room for improvement on my VO2max. But the %VO2max for LT/AT is a definite area of improvement (and something I'm hoping this 10k training will bear out). So I'll run it by the wife and see if I can't convince the family to gift me this test. I think I'd do it 2 weeks after Hot2Trot and help use it as a basis for my Lakefront marathon training.

On Wednesday, Steph left for a week long retail conference in Utah. So I left work early so I could get my run in before needing to take Steph to work. It was a WC of 18, a 15mph wind, and a wintery mix of snow/rain/ice. It felt like I got a free exfoliation! I was suppose to do some strides at the end of this easy workout, but because of the wintery mix I decided to save it for another day.

On Thursday, I felt good for most of the day. Felt like the run was going to be easy. But once I strapped on the shoes and took a few steps it was obvious I was still quite sore. The pace was fine, but most of my legs felt stiff and sore. As I finished the 6th mile and started the 7th mile is when I started the strides. Everything suddenly changed. I picked up the pace on the strides and as soon as each were finished I felt significantly less stiff and sore. Just a simple change in pace made everything feel different. There just might be something to these strides and the elicited benefit of short bursts and the end of an easy run. Another solid day.

On Friday, it was my co-worker's last day of work. We've worked together for the last 10 years and have both gotten into running along the way. It was great to share experiences at work with someone else getting started in running and working through the ups and downs. She's not going far, but obviously being a desk away made conversing much easier. Sad to see her go. It was the 2nd Daniels Q run. The 200m intervals to start and end the workout (same as Tuesday), but instead of 400m intervals there were 1 mile intervals at a 6:56 min/mile. According to my Daniels VDOT score (based on my PRs), this pace of a 6:56 min/mile is my lactate threshold pace. I was super stiff during the warm-up so I wasn't sure the R intervals were going to happen, but I planned to give it my best go around. I was surprised that the first 200m was within range...

Aiming for +/- 1 second on R and +/- 5 seconds on T.

45, 44, 44, 43

And then came the threshold paces. Normally it takes me a mile or two to "get ready" to run fast. So I was fully expecting the first pace to be in the +30 second range. I started running and then beep beep beep. I was like yea, yea I know I'm going to slow... I felt like I was going a comfortable pace... I looked down and saw a 6:11 min/mile. What the What?!?! Now I was only like 250m into the first mile of T, I was quite surprised to see I was ABSOLUTELY CRUSHING the first interval. It underlined to me how important and useful the 200m opening sprints can be in "priming" me for a fast race.

6:57, 6:55, 6:57, 6:54

The key to this is these were not on a flat track. This was my normal 3.1 mile loop with its several inclines and legit small hills. So I'm ecstatic I nailed this workout so comfortably. Now a perfect Q2 was within grasp, just nail the 4 remaining 200m intervals and it's mine!

44, 46 (DOH!), 44, 44

Guess I just lost track on the 2nd 200m interval. Oh well... I was able to hit 11/12 intervals (missed on second set 200m interval by 1 second...). Overall a very solid workout. Everything seemed to fall into place. I dare say the T pacing actually felt a little easy after the 200m sprints at 5:52 min/mile. I can definitely tell a difference in my form already. It seems much more concise and with a purpose. I settled in nicely into the T pace and could have done many many more of them. The HR was a very solid 156 average for the T paces (also avg. 6:56 min/mile). This puts it between marathon (152.1) and half marathon (160) historical pacing. Interestingly, this should be moreso between HM and 10k pacing. It'll be interesting to see how this progresses. Can't get too overconfident though because the weather conditions were again nearly ideal for this type of workout: almost no wind, WC of 19F, and cloudy.

Saturday was another easy day. I had to go to work first, and then came home afterwards to get the easy run done. I was hoping for a bit warmer temps (in the 20s), but I went with it. Another stiff day, but overall a solid run. I got to the stride section, but wasn't quite able to get up to the same speed/effort I've been able to put into the other stride intervals in previous workouts. But I was content with riding it out. I also completed the Medicine Ball Workout in the evening (with a 3 year old princess draped all over me).

Sunday I had to go to work again, and then came home for my longest run since Dopey (13 miles). Got all prepared for the run and started to walk away from the house, turn on the tunes, and.... iPod battery dead.... UGH! A no music long run for me. I hate hate hate listening to my breathing, so I was instantly not into this run. Really a bummer that the new iPod doesn't go automatic off after being paused for a long duration (my old one did). Oh well! The wind was 13 mph with a WC of 34. I went with shorts, tank top, and arm sleeves. It was a solid choice. Because of no music the effort felt a tad harder because I don't like to hear myself breathe. I prefer to zone out. I also think this long run "felt" harder than in the past because normally the long run was run 4 of 6 in the week, whereas with Monday off now it's 6 of 6. It truly marks the end of the weeks workouts. And it really felt like it. Still hit 13/13 intervals with a VERY solid HR of 136. That HR of 136 is a double PR for me. Lowest HR at a pace of an 8:07 min/mile (or thereabouts) and lowest HR for a "long run". This is a very good sign.

Monday starts super hero tumbling class with G! We've essentially got sports from this week until August for G. Super hero tumbling to sports introduction to soccer to tee ball to swimming. She (and us) is going to be a busy kid! I'm excited to see what she ends up liking!

I'm ecstatic to put Daniels 10k week 1 into the history books with a 90% interval completion rating. I really didn't think I'd nail it like I would! Moderation is key with Jack Daniels training, otherwise it'll end up like my old college days...

 

[roxymama]

No music + sound of breathing for 13 miles! Eep! I can manage that for shorter distances (especially if its a race), but that seems no fun.

Congrats on hitting so many speedy paces!

 

[DopeyBadger]

No music + sound of breathing for 13 miles! Eep! I can manage that for shorter distances (especially if its a race), but that seems no fun.

Congrats on hitting so many speedy paces!

It definitely wasn't as fun as it could have been. It was an immediate sense of dread when I realized it was a dead battery. Fully feel the increased effort feeling was mostly because of the lack of music.

Thanks!

 

[canglim52]

It definitely wasn't as fun as it could have been. It was an immediate sense of dread when I realized it was a dead battery. Fully feel the increased effort feeling was mostly because of the lack of music.

Thanks!

If you have to run without music in the future, I'd recommend trying some meditation first. In my experience, it will make the run go by a little smoother and definitely more pleasantly. I use an App called headspace, and they have sports specific guides. I personally don't run with music at all anymore. I made the change in Feb last year because I was having issues with runners knees. I knew some of the runners knee was a lack of fitness, but running with no headphones helps me land quieter too. Without the music you hear every step, and that helps me feel the road better. I haven't had issues with my knees since, and I didn't gain that much fitness overnight.

Additionally, I wonder if you would get more effect with the music if you only raced with it. Sorta like I don't drink coffee much anymore, but when I do drink coffee it's more effective than it was when I was drinking it more often. Obviously there are many ways to get to the same goal, but it's helped me

 

[pixarmom]

103 Days to Go (I haven't drank any alcohol in a long time, but I decided I needed some Jack Daniels in my life!)

View attachment 223732

Date - Day - Scheduled Workout (Intervals within desired pace, Strength +/- 5 sec, everything else +/- 10 sec)

2/28/17 - T - 2 mi @ WU + (4x200m @ R w/ 200m RI) + (6x400m @ R w/400m RI) + (4x200m @ R w/ 200m RI) + 3 mi @ CD (11/14)
3/1/17 - W - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile
3/2/17 - R - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile + 6 strides
3/3/17 - F - 2 mi @ WU + 4 x 200 @ R w/ 200 RI @ WU + 4 x 1 @ T w/ 1 min rest + 4 x 200 @ R w/ 200 RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD (11/12)
3/4/17 - Sat - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile + 6 strides + MBW
3/5/17 - Sun - 13 miles @ 8:04 min/mile (13/13)
3/6/17 - M - OFF

Total (training) mileage = 54.8 miles
Number of SOS intervals within pace = 35/39 (90%)

Tuesday was time for a new training cycle! It was a near perfect evening for running. A 40F WC, with very little wind, a slight to dense fog over time. Goal Pace for R is 5:52 min/mile (approximately mile pace, although my PR is 6:24). AHHH, a 5... For 200m that's 44 seconds and 400m is 88 seconds. My goal is to hit these +/- 1 second, so 43-45 seconds for 200m and 87-89 seconds for 400m. I am choosing to run these Quality Speed workouts on the road rather than the track since my racing will be on the road as well. To ensure accuracy, I have satellite mapped out 200m and 400m. I will use the lap button based on man-made markers to ensure distance accuracy so I don't rely on the inaccurate GPS signal of the watch.

First 200m set - 4/4 (45, 45, 43, 43)
400m set - 4/6 (86, 87, 89, 90, 89, 89)
Second 200m set - 3/4 (46, 44, 44, 44)

I'm shocked I hit 11/14 paces overall since I've never attempted to run this fast ever before (either actual pace or relative fitness pace). Regardless, this was a very tough workout and I feel like I got nailed by a truck. FUN!

A strava friend @Keith Kuisick commented that I should get my HR and VO2max tested. And I agree! My wife planned on gifting me a VO2max test 2 years ago for my birthday and I told her I wasn't ready yet. That it would have been nice, but not necessary. Now I feel differently. I feel I'm getting close to my max and thus think now is a great time to get it tested. My local hospital (UW Hospital) offers the service as part of their Exercise Science Lab (link).

"The data provided to the athlete includes:

• Rate of oxygen consumption
• Heart rate response and power output during progressive exercise to fatigue
• Maximal heart rate
• Anaerobic threshold (AT)
• Heart rate at anaerobic threshold
• Percent of VO2 max at onset of AT
• A five-zone training profile based on power output, heart rate and oxygen consumption."

I think the really useful information for me will be the relationship of AT (or LT) and VO2max. It'll really give me a good idea how much more I can improve and a good idea as to what my full potential is. Because I've put in about 7000 miles in my running career there is likely little room for improvement on my VO2max. But the %VO2max for LT/AT is a definite area of improvement (and something I'm hoping this 10k training will bear out). So I'll run it by the wife and see if I can't convince the family to gift me this test. I think I'd do it 2 weeks after Hot2Trot and help use it as a basis for my Lakefront marathon training.

On Wednesday, Steph left for a week long retail conference in Utah. So I left work early so I could get my run in before needing to take Steph to work. It was a WC of 18, a 15mph wind, and a wintery mix of snow/rain/ice. It felt like I got a free exfoliation! I was suppose to do some strides at the end of this easy workout, but because of the wintery mix I decided to save it for another day.

On Thursday, I felt good for most of the day. Felt like the run was going to be easy. But once I strapped on the shoes and took a few steps it was obvious I was still quite sore. The pace was fine, but most of my legs felt stiff and sore. As I finished the 6th mile and started the 7th mile is when I started the strides. Everything suddenly changed. I picked up the pace on the strides and as soon as each were finished I felt significantly less stiff and sore. Just a simple change in pace made everything feel different. There just might be something to these strides and the elicited benefit of short bursts and the end of an easy run. Another solid day.

On Friday, it was my co-worker's last day of work. We've worked together for the last 10 years and have both gotten into running along the way. It was great to share experiences at work with someone else getting started in running and working through the ups and downs. She's not going far, but obviously being a desk away made conversing much easier. Sad to see her go. It was the 2nd Daniels Q run. The 200m intervals to start and end the workout (same as Tuesday), but instead of 400m intervals there were 1 mile intervals at a 6:56 min/mile. According to my Daniels VDOT score (based on my PRs), this pace of a 6:56 min/mile is my lactate threshold pace. I was super stiff during the warm-up so I wasn't sure the R intervals were going to happen, but I planned to give it my best go around. I was surprised that the first 200m was within range...

Aiming for +/- 1 second on R and +/- 5 seconds on T.

45, 44, 44, 43

And then came the threshold paces. Normally it takes me a mile or two to "get ready" to run fast. So I was fully expecting the first pace to be in the +30 second range. I started running and then beep beep beep. I was like yea, yea I know I'm going to slow... I felt like I was going a comfortable pace... I looked down and saw a 6:11 min/mile. What the What?!?! Now I was only like 250m into the first mile of T, I was quite surprised to see I was ABSOLUTELY CRUSHING the first interval. It underlined to me how important and useful the 200m opening sprints can be in "priming" me for a fast race.

6:57, 6:55, 6:57, 6:54

The key to this is these were not on a flat track. This was my normal 3.1 mile loop with its several inclines and legit small hills. So I'm ecstatic I nailed this workout so comfortably. Now a perfect Q2 was within grasp, just nail the 4 remaining 200m intervals and it's mine!

44, 46 (DOH!), 44, 44

Guess I just lost track on the 2nd 200m interval. Oh well... I was able to hit 11/12 intervals (missed on second set 200m interval by 1 second...). Overall a very solid workout. Everything seemed to fall into place. I dare say the T pacing actually felt a little easy after the 200m sprints at 5:52 min/mile. I can definitely tell a difference in my form already. It seems much more concise and with a purpose. I settled in nicely into the T pace and could have done many many more of them. The HR was a very solid 156 average for the T paces (also avg. 6:56 min/mile). This puts it between marathon (152.1) and half marathon (160) historical pacing. Interestingly, this should be moreso between HM and 10k pacing. It'll be interesting to see how this progresses. Can't get too overconfident though because the weather conditions were again nearly ideal for this type of workout: almost no wind, WC of 19F, and cloudy.

Saturday was another easy day. I had to go to work first, and then came home afterwards to get the easy run done. I was hoping for a bit warmer temps (in the 20s), but I went with it. Another stiff day, but overall a solid run. I got to the stride section, but wasn't quite able to get up to the same speed/effort I've been able to put into the other stride intervals in previous workouts. But I was content with riding it out. I also completed the Medicine Ball Workout in the evening (with a 3 year old princess draped all over me).

Sunday I had to go to work again, and then came home for my longest run since Dopey (13 miles). Got all prepared for the run and started to walk away from the house, turn on the tunes, and.... iPod battery dead.... UGH! A no music long run for me. I hate hate hate listening to my breathing, so I was instantly not into this run. Really a bummer that the new iPod doesn't go automatic off after being paused for a long duration (my old one did). Oh well! The wind was 13 mph with a WC of 34. I went with shorts, tank top, and arm sleeves. It was a solid choice. Because of no music the effort felt a tad harder because I don't like to hear myself breathe. I prefer to zone out. I also think this long run "felt" harder than in the past because normally the long run was run 4 of 6 in the week, whereas with Monday off now it's 6 of 6. It truly marks the end of the weeks workouts. And it really felt like it. Still hit 13/13 intervals with a VERY solid HR of 136. That HR of 136 is a double PR for me. Lowest HR at a pace of an 8:07 min/mile (or thereabouts) and lowest HR for a "long run". This is a very good sign.

Monday starts super hero tumbling class with G! We've essentially got sports from this week until August for G. Super hero tumbling to sports introduction to soccer to tee ball to swimming. She (and us) is going to be a busy kid! I'm excited to see what she ends up liking!

I'm ecstatic to put Daniels 10k week 1 into the history books with a 90% interval completion rating. I really didn't think I'd nail it like I would! Moderation is key with Jack Daniels training, otherwise it'll end up like my old college days...

View attachment 223736

Great update. And ha! Old School is funny for a reason - it's very Madison!

Good luck with all the sports, Gigi! Turns out neither mateojr nor our oldest were into any sport involving a ball - swimming and running for them. Our middle son is a baseball guy and was a soccer guy. Of the two, I'd root for baseball based exclusively on more favorable weather conditions for spectators!

 

[canglim52]

I finally found that article that talks about strid length and frequency! The runner who increased his stride frequency and length was Bekele
http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2010/11/speed-stride-length-x-stride-frequency.html

 

[DopeyBadger]

If you have to run without music in the future, I'd recommend trying some meditation first. In my experience, it will make the run go by a little smoother and definitely more pleasantly. I use an App called headspace, and they have sports specific guides. I personally don't run with music at all anymore. I made the change in Feb last year because I was having issues with runners knees. I knew some of the runners knee was a lack of fitness, but running with no headphones helps me land quieter too. Without the music you hear every step, and that helps me feel the road better. I haven't had issues with my knees since, and I didn't gain that much fitness overnight.

Additionally, I wonder if you would get more effect with the music if you only raced with it. Sorta like I don't drink coffee much anymore, but when I do drink coffee it's more effective than it was when I was drinking it more often. Obviously there are many ways to get to the same goal, but it's helped me

I guess I'm the opposite because it helps me focus when there's the background noise of music. It allows me to drown out other sounds and be able to focus on breathing and foot strike without hearing them. I can just feel them then.

It's possible that removing the music might be beneficial as a stand-alone race option, but I tend to gravitate towards the philosophy of practice the race. So the mental triggers of racing are imbedded in my use of music. I don't actually listen to the music and oddly enough during races I usually don't even "hear" it.

Great update. And ha! Old School is funny for a reason - it's very Madison!

Good luck with all the sports, Gigi! Turns out neither mateojr nor our oldest were into any sport involving a ball - swimming and running for them. Our middle son is a baseball guy and was a soccer guy. Of the two, I'd root for baseball based exclusively on more favorable weather conditions for spectators!

Thanks! Very Madison...

We've got a few options so it'll be interesting to see which she gravitates towards.

I finally found that article that talks about strid length and frequency! The runner who increased his stride frequency and length was Bekele
http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2010/11/speed-stride-length-x-stride-frequency.html

Interesting articles and one I've seen versions of before. I like Magnuss's website, although I do need to spend more time on that. I have his book, Science of Running, which is an extremely dense textbook like explanation of running. Great in explaining topics, but really starts to fall apart in the training plan creation methodology at the very end. It became too confusing to me.

 

[DopeyBadger]

96 Days to Go (Harder? Better? Faster? Stronger?)



Date - Day - Scheduled Workout (Intervals within desired pace, Strength +/- 5 sec, everything else +/- 10 sec)

3/7/17 - T - 2 mi @ WU + 5 sets of (200m R + 200m WU + 200m R + 200m WU + 400m R + 400m WU) + 2 mi @ CD (14/15)
3/8/17 - W - 6 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile
3/9/17 - R - 6 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile + 6 strides
3/10/17 - F - 2 mi @ WU + 4 x 1 @ 6:56 min/mile w/ 1 min rest + 6 x 200 @ R w/ 200 RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD (10/10)
3/11/17 - Sat - 6 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile + 6 strides + MBW
3/12/17 - Sun - 1 mi @ WU + 10 mi @ 7:25 min/mile (9/10)
3/13/17 - M - OFF

Total (training) mileage = 48.7 miles
Number of SOS intervals within pace = 33/35 (94%)

Monday night was G's super hero tumbling. She had fun. Unfortunately she was a ball of energy and couldn't sit still long enough to listen to instructions and the such. Plus she was all over the place. It's a tough class though because there were 15ish kids, 3 teachers, and the kids aged from 3 to 6-7. So I think it was tough for G to pay attention. We'll see if the following week goes better.



Unfortunately, Tuesday morning G woke up and wouldn't walk. She just crawled all over the place. Then, she eventually decided to start walking mid-day but it was with a noticeable limp. I was a bit concerned she hurt her hip, but she said she wasn't in any pain. But clearly she was favoring. I figured the 45 min tumbling class was tough on her and she probably didn't stretch well enough pre/post. Thankfully, by Wednesday morning she was back to normal. Now for the run...

2 mi @ WU + 5 sets of (200m R + 200m WU + 200m R + 200m WU + 400m R + 400m WU) + 2 mi @ CD
R = 5:52 min/mile (44 sec for 200m and 88 sec for 400m)
Goal is +/-1 second on intervals

Set 1 - 44, 44, 87
Set 2 - 43, 43, 86
Set 3 - 43, 43, 87
Set 4 - 44, 44, 87
Set 5 - 44, 44, 87

There was a pretty stiff wind of 16-35 mph. Thankfully, the wind was mostly at my back or side and not a headwind. It likely made the run a tad easier then it should have been. A solid run all around with only one interval too fast (by one second).

Wednesday was an easy day. Another somewhat windy day, but overall nothing of note.

Thursday was an easy day. Another solid easy day.

Friday was the next Daniels Q workout: 2 mi @ WU + 4 x 1 @ T w/ 1 min rest + 6 x 200 @ R w/ 200 RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD

T = 6:56 min/mile
R = 5:52 min/mile (44 sec 200m)
Interval window: T is +/- 5 sec and R is +/- 1 sec

WC of 18 with a light wind of 5-10 mph. This was a headwind for the 200m intervals.

T 1 mile intervals - 6:54, 6:53, 6:52, 6:53
200m intervals - 45, 45, 45, 44, 44, 45

Hit 10/10 intervals! Wasn't nearly as comfortable during this workout as last week. This was likely due to the extra winter layers restricting my movement. I also think that having the 200m intervals before the T work made the T work feel easier last week. It will be interesting to see if this feels this way again. I'm also trying a new method of carrying no water at all while running and only drinking at every third mile or so at the "aid station". I'm testing out whether this is something I can do in a long distance race, because I've been feeling more comfortable without something in my hand. Overall though, I can't really complain about hitting 100% of intervals. The real test will be how does the 10 mile M Tempo workout go on Sunday on only one day's rest.

Saturday was COLD. It was a WC of -2F. Boo winter! This yo-yoing weather is really wearing on me because I've done -2F before but I just didn't want to. Although, I knew the rest of Saturday was dependent on getting things rolling so even though the weather would improve later in the day I was out the door at 8am. I went completely blind with my watch covered up by layers. A goal pace of ~9:00 min/mile, was pretty solidly on pace. I decided to not stop my watch for the short water breaks because I didn't want to uncover my layers. The other thing Saturday brought was the beginning to a new diet. Once I get all the details ironed out then I'll go into it in more detail. I decided to make that push towards sub-3 I needed to evaluate all facets of training again.

Sunday was a big test. Steph had to work, so it was solo dad time during the day until she got off work. G and I built a two story house of pillows with a vaulted ceiling and a light. Should have taken a picture as G would come out in a "robe" and walk the dog until it went potty. So funny! Let's just say this at the start... something is happening and it's VERY good! This was a M Tempo set that unlike in the Hansons marathon cycle which was the first run in the set was rather the 6th run in the set. In addition, there were two other speed sessions during the week. So it's my belief that this was one of the hardest M Tempos I've done yet from a standpoint of the training leading into it. I anticipated that this was going to be a tough run.

Wind was minimal and the temp was 30F which was near perfect. I also went with the no carried water test and only drank every 3 miles.

Paces (Goal 7:25) - 7:20, 7:25, 7:30, 7:23, 7:29, 7:28, 7:17, 7:21, 7:16, 7:03

I CRUSHED this run! The run felt good, it was comfortable and dare I say the breathing indicated to me it felt too easy. After hitting 9/9 intervals leading into the last one I decided to kick it up a notch and see what life felt like on the fast side. So a 7:03 min/mile to finish it off. Now here's the MAJOR kicker! The historical marathon HR is 152. The HR for the M Tempo today was 146 at a 7:21 min/mile average. That's a large gap and suggests my actual M Tempo today is more likely a 7:01 min/mile. That's scary good if true. These next few weeks are going to be interesting.

So what's the updated HR and Pace graph look like now???



HR Predictions:
Mile - 5:15
5k - 18:13 (5:52 min/mile)
10k - 38:28 (6:12 min/mile)
HM - 1:24:36 (6:27 min/mile)
M - 3:04:13 (7:01 min/mile)

An interesting development for sure!

 

[roxymama]

Really speedy. And yes you are crazy for running in -2 WC. I don't believe you asked the question, but I went ahead and answered it

Super hero tumbling sounds pretty amazing and I totally get the 3 year old energy/please pay attention please, but as long as she's having fun I say let her go crazy. She'll be paying better attention every year that goes on. So should we be watching for her in the Olympics in 13 years?

Hope you are holding up ok after another intense week but it sounds like you are doing really well!

 

[DopeyBadger]

And yes you are crazy for running in -2 WC. I don't believe you asked the question, but I went ahead and answered it

Super hero tumbling sounds pretty amazing and I totally get the 3 year old energy/please pay attention please, but as long as she's having fun I say let her go crazy. She'll be paying better attention every year that goes on. So should we be watching for her in the Olympics in 13 years?

Yea, and it's a new setting for her with multiple adults who aren't paying attention to everything she is saying/doing. She'll learn. It'll be interesting to see what happens this evening. LOL, at the Olympics. I guess we'll see, "no limits" and all. But that would probably be a stretch for our athletic gene pool.

Hope you are holding up ok after another intense week but it sounds like you are doing really well!

Somewhat sore and stiff, but that just means it's working. I'm happy at this point that I'm still nailing the paces and not yet seeing a day to day fade.

 

[ZellyB]

Great training update! You are doing so well - as usual.

G looks great in her super hero tumbling outfit. I took my son to tumbling when he was around 3 and it was total insanity. I don't know how those teachers didn't want to kill themselves. Semi-organized chaos. But, he did have fun.

 

[michigandergirl]

Mad props to you for running with a WC of -2. I am so tired of cold and wind! I think all of us northerners can agree that winter needs to END.