Tithing- Let's discuss it

[dvcgirl]

Glad to say that our Catholic church does not support the televangelists.

It goes to various missions, to help the poor, the bishop's appeal et cetera.
We get statements annually about what they did and where all monies were allocated.

As far as your personal finances and what a church advises---you should just like retirement...work small and set the max as your goal. If 10% is going to blow you out of the water....well that isn't its purpose. Remember, I said you should "feel it" not be "hurt" by it. Giving is to feel good and not painful. (and I do not mean that it is painful to the stingy--I mean painful in that you would have trouble paying the bills of necessity).

If you think about it--the extras are just extras....I could justify saving for retirment perhaps--but paying the kids education (though important) and going on vacation....are just extras. They aren't needs.

Tithing is always a "before"--not a do it with what's leftover thing. Kind of like savings. IF you don't put that $50 in the bank now. Who's to say that after expenses...you'll still have $50 remaining to save.

It is all about Trust....and the great thing is that it is a ratio. 10% of someone who makes $100 a week is only $10. Now to some that would be alot...but that person is making $5200 and I am assuming that they are not poverty stricken. But if that $10 was instead going to be used to go to the movies...let's be honest...that person has just said that personal entertainment is more important than God.

I find it interesting that you are Catholic Lisa....I've never personally heard a big push to tithe back when I did attend church regularly (many years ago). Most of my family is catholic, including my DH's parents who are very devout Catholics, and yet I know for a fact that they don't tithe 10%. Interestingly enough, their church in NJ just went through a big scandal with their priest. He embezzled over a million dollars from his congregation...he's currently awaiting trail.

Everyone has their priorities I guess. We have no children, but if we did I'm 110% positive that we'd fund their college educations before giving to charity. I don't see a college education as a "need", I see it as an absolute necessity in our times. It's sort of like a previous poster who said something about us not having to save for retirement 500 years ago. Of course you didn't save for retirement 500 years ago....your life expectancy was about 40....LOL. That just makes no sense at all to me.

In fact, we are helping to put a nephew through college because we have the means, and we'd hate to see him burdened with tens of thousands in loans as he begins his professional life.

So if you don't fund your childrens' college education and they end up having to take out government subsidized loans and/or government grants which are all funded by the American taxpayer, isn't that then sort of silly when you could have provided for them yourself had you not given 10% of your income to your church. I'm saying, why not allocate your funds differently. Give charitably to your own before giving it to the church. Do you know what I mean?

 

[mickeyfan2]

When asked how much you make per year--what do you tell people...net or gross? Income is the whole amount--net and gross are terms for the IRS and not for God.

True, but this does not include benefits like the one paster said. Also the difference between net and gross is what the gov wants and some of it does go to "charity work" welfare. So if I use gross then that counts too. And I am way over 10%.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I've never personally heard a big push to tithe back when I did attend church regularly (many years ago). Most of my family is catholic, including my DH's parents who are very devout Catholics, and yet I know for a fact that they don't tithe 10%.

In fact, we are helping to put a nephew through college because we have the means, and we'd hate to see him burdened with tens of thousands in loans as he begins his professional life.

First. Yes the Catholic Church does not ask for or expect 10%. Once out Priest was talking about tithing and he said that all or your charity counts and the church does not expect 10%. What you give to the church goes for charity but also heat, lights, etc.

I for one consider an aunt/uncle paying for a nephew's college as giving back to god. This is helping all of god's children.

Also, I also agree, if you gave your church 10% and then your kids get school lunches, college grants etc., that you did not really tithe the church. You just took from the govt to give to your pastor.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

When I was little the family went to church (Congregational) every Sunday. My family did not tithe. Each week we did read, in unison with the minister, a confession that included these words "we will hereafter lead a Godly, righteous, and sober life to the glory of Thy holy name."

Re-read my original comment, also.

I still am not understanding.

One can lead a "sober" life and still travel to the mountains or overseas or to Butte, Montana.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't see a college education as a "need", I see it as an absolute necessity in our times.

I agree with you--another spin, if you will indulge me....

One daughter's tuition is already paid--the other is in progress.

While not having "tithed" the entire time---we have been working her way towards it.

And a blessing came about. We were set up for payment plan--and once we commenced tithing---a blessing came about that made it possible for her tuition to be paid off.

Now while we didn't tithe to win the education lotto--it is a two-way street.

God does not punish those who don't tithe--but I do believe that blessings come about in different ways for those who do try to part with a dollar to help those less fortunate.

 

[TNKBELL]

We now tithe 8-8.5 to our church and the rest of the 10% goes to charities like food drives, personal contacts,Sarah's Hope and we sponsor a child in India through CFCA.

8 1/2 years ago I decided to stay home with my new baby and our income was cut in half putting us below the poverty line, we couldn't afford to tithe the full 10%, so we tithed as much as we could, around 5.00 per week. It was a struggle, but somehow we got by. My Dh was in great need of dress shoes for work and we couldn't afford them, so he went to the DAV and they had the exact same pair he was wearing(only like new without holes) in his size and only .50cents!! We considered that a miracle!!
It doesn't matter if you believe in tithing or not, the fact is that because we tithe, we have been blessed, so many times I've lost count. I really think it's a matter of faith, I think we all know what we should do, but sometimes it's just easier to argue and justify our actions than to just do the right thing.

 

[dvcgirl]

I agree with you--another spin, if you will indulge me....

One daughter's tuition is already paid--the other is in progress.

While not having "tithed" the entire time---we have been working her way towards it.

And a blessing came about. We were set up for payment plan--and once we commenced tithing---a blessing came about that made it possible for her tuition to be paid off.

Now while we didn't tithe to win the education lotto--it is a two-way street.

God does not punish those who don't tithe--but I do believe that blessings come about in different ways for those who do try to part with a dollar to help those less fortunate.

I understand what you're saying. My in-laws speak in terms like you use because they're also very religious. Everything good is a blessing from God. Whereas my DH and I are likely to see it more as good karma or something in those terms. Sometimes we think it's just a coincidence.

I don't think God would punish me or anyone else for not tithing. We don't even go to church...lol....so I'm guessing if he wanted to start punishing he'd have to start there. All kidding aside, we also believe fully in giving to charities, and we do. But even if we were members of a church I know that we'd never hand over 10% of our gross income to one organization and then say that it's up to God what happens to that money. There's an awful lot of middle men involved there. Some imply that's all part of it...that you must trust and give that 10%...trust in God that it will all go where it needs to go. I'm sorry, but personally, I need a little more control over my donations than that. And any church or religion that is getting detailed enough to include discussions about company benefits being included....that's a little scary to me. Okay, more than a little scary.

I know for a fact that the money we spend to help our nephew is well spent. I know that he'll struggle far less when he emerges from college and will be better able to concentrate his engergies on his chosen profession. After that, we make sure that our own future is secure, so that we will no be in need of assistance in our future. And then, we donate to those charities that align with causes we identify with, whether it be Make a Wish or the American Red Cross. I don't think God wants us to be so helpless that we don't make our own decisions and can't think for ourselves. I just can't give up my rational mind and hand over 10% of my income to a pastor because there are lines in the Bible referring to the giving of "first fruits". And I in no way believe that giving 10% to your church is one way ticket to heaven.

 

[sk!mom]

I think we all know what we should do, but sometimes it's just easier to argue and justify our actions than to just do the right thing.

Maybe it's time to close this thread.

I appreciate all of those who were able to participate without arguing or judging others. My purpose was to read others experiences and how it affected their budget. It seems that maybe we have gone as far as possible toward that goal and now the judgmental statements are beginning.

 

[SlightlyGoofy]

I always say that not everyone was called to build an ark as Noah was.

IMO, we are each called to whatever and whether we choose to listen or not that is our personal decision. How am I to know if someone else has a true calling for whatever and they can have no clue as to what I am called upon to do.

I have enough trouble deciding for myelf and have no time to devote to deciding for others.

The only religious discussion or view that I cannot abide is the one that says'My way is the ONLY way".

The wonders of God abound around us, whatever name we choose to call Him/Her by. My personal belief is that Jesus is a perfect gift from a loving God and He would not want us to fight over His love and the best way to express it.

Life is a balancing act and every single day I fight to not falter. Some days I succeed, some days I do not. I do my best however humble it might be and manage to find a smile or even a belly laugh.

It has been nice to hear other people's ideas though. I live to learn.

Slightly Goofy

 

[Brier Rose]

I am really hestitate to post this as I DO NOT want to offened anyone and DO NOT want to debate, but I really feel like there are a few here who may be struggling and could benefit from this so here goes.

I think it's wonderful that some of you believe that you can tie certain blessings you have received to the fact that you titihe faithfully. In reality though, can you honestly say you weren't blessed because of all of the other things that you do to honor God?

We do not tithe. We do all we can, when we can, for whoever needs it, and I feel comfortable with that. Yet we have been blessed possibly in one of the greatest ways one could be.

God healed our DD of cancer.

For the skeptical of you reading...THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I WANT TO DEBATE! (continued on the next page cause I cut myself off)

 

[Brier Rose]

Woops! I cut myself off and posted before I was through.

Anyway, I could go into so many details about this, and it would be a true blessing for all to hear, but this really isn't the place for that I guess.

Just simply trying to point out that I do not believe one certain act = one certain blessing.

We have also been taken care of VERY well financially, and our lives our so rich and full now in so many ways I would have never though it possible.

All that did not come about because we started tithing. It came about when we decided to stop controlling our own lives and turn the control over to Jesus to be led where He would led us.

We are in His hands, and desire no more than to live a life pleasing to Him.
We do our best, and feel His blessings because of it.

 

[TNKBELL]

Maybe it's time to close this thread.

I appreciate all of those who were able to participate without arguing or judging others. My purpose was to read others experiences and how it affected their budget. It seems that maybe we have gone as far as possible toward that goal and now the judgmental statements are beginning.

I think you misunderstand my comment. The "right thing" may be different in each situation, for us in the beginning tithing at 10% was not viable, but we gave a little and I believe we were blessed. There are many people that tithe not only financially but with thier time and they too are blessed by it. I'm sorry if you feel like I was judging you, I was not. I should have been more clear.

 

[NMW]

I find it interesting that you are Catholic Lisa....I've never personally heard a big push to tithe back when I did attend church regularly (many years ago). Most of my family is catholic, including my DH's parents who are very devout Catholics, and yet I know for a fact that they don't tithe 10%.

I agree. I've attended a number of Catholic churches as well as Catholic school. Until I read this thread I've never even heard the term "tithe". I don't even know how you would pronounce it, and I have a BA in English! DH is also Catholic and attended Catholic school. It would make me feel very uncomfortable if a priest or pastor or someone like that asked for 10% of our income and then specified that the amount was to be BEFORE taxes. It would make me think that all they cared about was my money.

 

[RichNKatHolly]

I agree. I've attended a number of Catholic churches as well as Catholic school. Until I read this thread I've never even heard the term "tithe". I don't even know how you would pronounce it, and I have a BA in English! DH is also Catholic and attended Catholic school. It would make me feel very uncomfortable if a priest or pastor or someone like that asked for 10% of our income and then specified that the amount was to be BEFORE taxes. It would make me think that all they cared about was my money.

I never heard of it either! We grew up Catholic, but I never heard the term. I know my grandparents gave $$ in an envelope every week, but I know that Pop NEVER would have done 10% of gross income.

Maybe this is a regional thing? Sorry if I seem stupid - just curious! I've been folowing this thread just to learn what it is

 

[Carrie Ellis]

Just out of curiosity!!!

How is the Catholic Church funded? I am Baptist and grew up Baptist and I have debated with tithing since I have been an adult. We give to our church but it is not 10% of our income. I don't want to put a $$ sign on it because I feel like then it all becomes about money and that, to me, is not the point. I try to give my time, life and raise my children in the right way. But, from my experience and my husband's, the Baptist church really pushes for money. Sometimes I would rather walk up to a needy person and hand them cash then to give it to an organization that keeps asking and asking. I am enjoying reading the replies though and it is helping me alot.

Thanks everyone!

 

[TNKBELL]

I never heard of it either! We grew up Catholic, but I never heard the term. I know my grandparents gave $$ in an envelope every week, but I know that Pop NEVER would have done 10% of gross income.

Maybe this is a regional thing? Sorry if I seem stupid - just curious! I've been folowing this thread just to learn what it is

In our parish, it is called Stewardship, time, talent and treasure. They send a packet to each family that is registered at the parish with forms to fill in for volunteering and also a guide that shows income and different % amounts for tithing. If you tithe at our parish(8%) your children can attend the school without paying tuition also then go on to the Catholic high school and just pay for books. So if you have several children they can receive a private school education for less than tuition would cost.

 

[graygables]

I grew up a Southern Baptist and you couldn't go a year (usually 6 months) without a "stewardship Sunday" where there was a sermon about the tithe.

It is basically an evangelical Christian teaching based on Old Testament law where the Israelites were commanded to give one/tenth of their crops, livestock, etc to God. Actually, as I've pointed out, in Deuteronomy, they were commanded to *EAT* the "tithe" (ten percent) in the place that the Lord had commanded (the temple) and if they couldn't cart their stuff that far, they were to sell it, take the money to the city where the temple is, then buy what they needed for their celebration. Every 3rd year, they were to give their tithe to the Levites (the priesthood) and the widows, orphans, poor, since they had no other means of support.

Modern evangelical Christian churches have focused only on the number (10%) and giving it to the church b/c of other scriptures that are taught. That money is used to help pay the pastor, support staff, buildings, etc, basic functions of the church and also to support mission-type things, either home, foreign, local whatever the church decides. Modern evangelical pastors do not have a job outside the church (as the apostles did...Paul was a tentmaker) so they rely on the donations of the members for their income. "Offering" is different than "tithe" as it is over and above the 10%, although some people semantically lump it all together.

 

[RichNKatHolly]

In our parish, it is called Stewardship, time, talent and treasure. They send a packet to each family that is registered at the parish with forms to fill in for volunteering and also a guide that shows income and different % amounts for tithing. If you tithe at our parish(8%) your children can attend the school without paying tuition also then go on to the Catholic high school and just pay for books. So if you have several children they can receive a private school education for less than tuition would cost.

OK, thanks for taking the time to explain. We definately don't have anything like that here. In fact, a friend of mine had her son kicked out of religious eduction because her envelopes were not showing up in the collection plate (she was giving cash without the envelope). Kind of a turn off if you ask me.

I'd rather donate my time, clothing, etc... Handling money can tempt even the most honest and blessed among us. Then again, I did not grow up like that so I'm sure in the churches where this is going on there is alot of supervision. To each his own.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I understand what you're saying. My in-laws speak in terms like you use because they're also very religious. Everything good is a blessing from God. Whereas my DH and I are likely to see it more as good karma or something in those terms. Sometimes we think it's just a coincidence.

I don't think God would punish me or anyone else for not tithing. We don't even go to church...lol....so I'm guessing if he wanted to start punishing he'd have to start there. All kidding aside, we also believe fully in giving to charities, and we do. But even if we were members of a church I know that we'd never hand over 10% of our gross income to one organization and then say that it's up to God what happens to that money. There's an awful lot of middle men involved there. Some imply that's all part of it...that you must trust and give that 10%...trust in God that it will all go where it needs to go. I'm sorry, but personally, I need a little more control over my donations than that. And any church or religion that is getting detailed enough to include discussions about company benefits being included....that's a little scary to me. Okay, more than a little scary.

I know for a fact that the money we spend to help our nephew is well spent. I know that he'll struggle far less when he emerges from college and will be better able to concentrate his engergies on his chosen profession. After that, we make sure that our own future is secure, so that we will no be in need of assistance in our future. And then, we donate to those charities that align with causes we identify with, whether it be Make a Wish or the American Red Cross. I don't think God wants us to be so helpless that we don't make our own decisions and can't think for ourselves. I just can't give up my rational mind and hand over 10% of my income to a pastor because there are lines in the Bible referring to the giving of "first fruits". And I in no way believe that giving 10% to your church is one way ticket to heaven.

The beautiful thing about this--and it applies to ANYBODY...religious or not....the whole point of tithing is to share the blessings you receive....whether you think it is the result of Good Karma--or from God.

No matter how poor you are in the United States (save those who are really impoverished)---if you are making minimum wage...you are RICH compared to those who live in undeveloped nations. Whatever you can--whatever you do--it is important to share that wealth...whether for abundant blessing or for good karma.

I don't hand over 10% to my pastor--and do not even remotely consider it my cost of admission---but I do benefit from the church from mass--to parish appreciation day (huge bbq cookout)--to meeting space for meetings I attend. They can pray until the cows come home--but if they don't get any money from their parishioners....there is no way they could afford to do what they do. My parish has 1000s of parishioners. A rinky dink little building just won't cut it. We lost a building following the hurricanes b/c its damage resulted in it being condemned (by the county--not the church ). We are sooo feeling the pinch right now in terms of space.

I never said it was a one way ticket to heaven---nobody did. Nowhere does it say--give money and go to heaven. The gist is--share the blessing and it will come back tenfold. The blessings are not always monetary--it could be as simple as feeling really darn good about it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Just out of curiosity!!!

How is the Catholic Church funded?

Operating budget for our parish---tithing.....long term capital expenses (i.e. buildings and such)---the diocese will sometimes help out. The reason they want people to commit--b/c they have to know how much operating expense they will have for the following year. Sore thumb with people.....but a perfectly acceptable thing for the parish to ask for---just a "what can you commit" question. Not like the United Way campaigns where they bug you--"you're going to give, aren't you???" That is inappropriate. Takes it from the solemn promise to God to the greedy nature of humans.

Priests are paid a stipend, but I do not believe the parish pays for that.