Tithing- Let's discuss it

[Lisa loves Pooh]

OP--to answer your question....

I do not miss my tithe anymore than I miss our 401K contribution. We do not base our budget with these numbers in mind. We remove them from our salary. Actually--the tithe is listed as the first line item as we remove it ourselves.

We just learn to live without it. Not to many places to get more from to get our number higher--but that is by our choice. I try to find other ways to make it up throughout the year. .

 

[dvcgirl]

In our parish, it is called Stewardship, time, talent and treasure. They send a packet to each family that is registered at the parish with forms to fill in for volunteering and also a guide that shows income and different % amounts for tithing. If you tithe at our parish(8%) your children can attend the school without paying tuition also then go on to the Catholic high school and just pay for books. So if you have several children they can receive a private school education for less than tuition would cost.

Well then this is whole different ballgame. How is it a true "tithing" if you're getting private school education? If that's the case, then am I not tithing by paying my property taxes which fund our local state school districts?

 

[kidshop]

This is fascinating! I am probably the world's worst Catholic and I never gave a thought to tithing, until we moved to an area with poor public schools and I checked out the Catholic school here. I myself went to Catholic school for 16 years! All the way through college ( I wonder what happened...?) When reading the tuition page there are different rates listed for parishoners and non-parishoner and a third one (more) for non Catholics (LOL). The rate for parishoners says: to be eligible you must be registered and demonstrate that you are cdontributing in support of the parish. You *should* (their word) tithe 5% of you income to the church and another 5% to tuition and other charities. So the tuition counts in the tithe, right? But it was all just to complicated and arbitrary for us! If we had chosen to send ds there, I would have just picked one of the flat rates in order to avoid any guilt over what I should be doing! Ds2 will be going to preschool there, flat rate, guilt free and my other ds was accepted into a very nice magnet school. I know my parents have always given their 10% to our church.

In my experience the Catholic church is a little more subdued about asking for money. I loved the Methodist church we went to for VBS and they would get you all riled up for the excellent cause they were supporting and you were happy to give them as much as you could! I also really liked the contemporary services, and very modern children's services but I digress...

Anyway, I am learning a lot! I agree with those who point out how our world is certainly different than in biblical times and it is important to provide for our futures and our children's futures as well as supporting those who have less. God has certainly blessed me and I am thankful every day, though I have never tithed a dime.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Well then this is whole different ballgame. How is it a true "tithing" if you're getting private school education? If that's the case, then am I not tithing by paying my property taxes which fund our local state school districts?

It just isn't the same.

Kind of like the people who say they donate and when you ask them to what--they say the IRS.

ETA: The governement isn't performing a charitible service to honor God. We too have been told that if we send our children to Catholic School--that it is part of the tithe. I thought it odd they should say that--but would have to look further on why this is so. However--you cannot compare taxation to religion and say that you are "donating" anything.

 

[TNKBELL]

Taxes are taken from your paycheck, we have no say in the matter. Tithing is given freely and willingly.

 

[dvcgirl]

Taxes are taken from your paycheck, we have no say in the matter. Tithing is given freely and willingly.

Yes, but if your children are getting a private school education as a benefit of your "tithing", aren't you really just paying for a private education? If that's "tithing" then we're doing it too....we're helping to fund our nephew's college education. We're giving freely and willingly to benefit someone else. You're giving freely and willingly to benefit your children.

Really, it's a serious question. I've learned a ton by participating in this discussion, but one big thing I notice is that everyone (and every church) seems to sort of make "tithing" suit their needs. This would seem to fit that mold.

 

[TNKBELL]

Yes, but if your children are getting a private school education as a benefit of your "tithing", aren't you really just paying for a private education? If that's "tithing" then we're doing it too....we're helping to fund our nephew's college education. We're giving freely and willingly to benefit someone else. You're giving freely and willingly to benefit your children.

Really, it's a serious question. I've learned a ton by participating in this discussion, but one big thing I notice is that everyone (and every church) seems to sort of make "tithing" suit their needs. This would seem to fit that mold.

Actually our children are homeschooled so I don't tithe to support their education, but I am tithing for the benefit of my children because in doing so, it blesses us all.

 

[DMRick]

We tithe. That belongs to God (yeppers, right off the top). We also "give"..and some of that giving goes to our church, some goes elsewhere. We don't start giving until we pass the tithe. We owe it, we pay it, it's up to our elected board how it's spent (our church more than gives 10% to the needy). Our church preaches it, however only the financial recorder knows who really does it, and that person ain't talking! We are blessed often, and while we are thankful, we don't tithe for the blessings, but because it belongs to God (the first 10%). He's never let us down, and our bills have always been covered, even during work strikes, layoffs, and shutdowns. What others do, and live with..that's between them and God and they owe me no explanation. Our Pastor is paid about what the median for our church is (guessing and using figures the board thinks is right), and that's only right. Wish we could afford to give him even more. I can say that we are older now, but when we were younger and had young children, sometimes it was hard to put that in the envelope each week..private school tuition was due, had to pay for those braces, but we never faultered, and we never suffered because of it. He always meet the needs. Note I said needs.. sometimes we did less fun stuff, but the needs were always met.

 

[Rosie28A]

I have, and have known, couples of different faiths who have handled their religious beliefs by letting one another practice their faith without interference. I have, and have known couples who have divorced over financial disagreements. A press for tithing, either from the pastor, or one spouse to the other can be quite dangerous, I would think. Religious fervor has many platforms.

Tithing, I sense, where one is a member of a denomination that pushes hard for the tithe and who are already pressed hard insofar as their finances must have some real hurdles to overcome in their marriage with this matter of tithing. As they say, religion and politics are strong forces. A pastor pushing a couple either from the pulpit or on a personal basis might sow some seeds that will never bear fruit.

 

[DiznEeyore]

Technically, every penny of it comes into your household. And then you are taxed on it, and you pay your taxes. We do it a little backwards now, since most of us "prepay" our taxes via withholding, but all of the money *is* yours.

But *physically* every penny does not come into my household and never will. You can split hairs on it, but no, that money is NOT mine and never will be. Again, if I don't pay my taxes, the government'll throw my butt in jail for taking something that wasn't mine.

 

[DiznEeyore]

Right now we are striving for net---just b/c that is where we are at right now. However---it should be gross for a true tithe.

JMHO.

Exactly. Your opinion. I don't think anyone has a right to say "it should be gross for a true tithe." NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that. I give of the firstfruits that come into my household, and yup, I give 10%, plus my time, support a sponsor child, give other gifts and more.

NO ONE better ever tell me I don't give "a true tithe".

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[DMRick]

A press for tithing, either from the pastor, or one spouse to the other can be quite dangerous, I would think. Religious fervor has many platforms.
.

If just the wife is a Christian going to church, perhaps she would just tithe the percent she feels is hers. I would not expect my husband to tithe if he didn't believe in it.

 

[DiznEeyore]

If just the wife is a Christian going to church, perhaps she would just tithe the percent she feels is hers. I would not expect my husband to tithe if he didn't believe in it.

That's exactly how my parents handle that very situation.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Exactly. Your opinion. I don't think anyone has a right to say "it should be gross for a true tithe." NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that. I give of the firstfruits that come into my household, and yup, I give 10%, plus my time, support a sponsor child, give other gifts and more.

NO ONE better ever tell me I don't give "a true tithe".

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

And by definition--tithing is one-tenth.

Anybody who gives anything--is giving more than most people.

You have no argument from me.

Just that--nowhere in the Bible does it say "gross" and "net" salary either. It says first fruits of labor---how would you define that?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

But *physically* every penny does not come into my household and never will. You can split hairs on it, but no, that money is NOT mine and never will be. Again, if I don't pay my taxes, the government'll throw my butt in jail for taking something that wasn't mine.

NO--but you have every opportunity in the world to reduce that tax liability.

And whether or not you will be thrown in jail has no bearing--your salary is your salary.

 

[DiznEeyore]

Just that--nowhere in the Bible does it say "gross" and "net" salary either. It says first fruits of labor---how would you define that?

I'd define that just how I've defined it in all of my replies -- the first 10% of all money that comes into my hands!

 

[DMRick]

If it was net, I'd have always been home free, since our net is very low LOL. We had a lot taken out for taxes, retirement, savings, pre taxed medical, etc.

Although I think it's very clear in the Bible (the first fruits..back then, it was usually the harvest, or the payment of the harvest, and taxes weren't removed..you paid them to Ceasar yourself after the fact), you just have to settle it between you and God. The Bible wouldn't say gross versus net, since there was no such thing back then (taxes taken out before you either had yoru harvest, or payment of it).

As I stated, we tithe, and we also give...and that give includes money, items, and time. Our tithe is just that..a tithe of our first fruits, not to be confused with giving.

While I think this is an interesting thread, I think it would be counterproductive to argue about when the 10% should be taken out, since those who don't want to, or feel they shouldn't have to pay 10% of their gross won't, and those who think they should will. It's only God and your inner feelings you have to settle up with, not people on a board.

Most people who tithe are involved in their churches, and well understand the cost of heat/electric/building upkeep and growth/salaries, as well as what it costs to send out missionaries, and to help feed the local and outreaching poor. It must be very hard for a church without tithing members to stay even, let alone grown. We are not a rich church in finances, since so much of the intake is outtake, but we are a very blessed church.


[=DiznEeyore]Exactly. Your opinion. I don't think anyone has a right to say "it should be gross for a true tithe." NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that. I give of the firstfruits that come into my household, and yup, I give 10%, plus my time, support a sponsor child, give other gifts and more.

NO ONE better ever tell me I don't give "a true tithe".

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. [/QUOTE]

 

[kytiam]

This has been a fascinating discussion! I don't want to get into the debate about whether 10% is from your net or gross income, but I do believe that the tithe is meant to support your home church. My struggle, however, is more worldly, I'm afraid. This is the DIS after all, so maybe you all could advise me. We give our tithe to our church, and additional gifts and offerings as needs arise and we are able, but I still want to save up for another trip to Disney World. I feel sooooooo guilty when I fail to give something to the visiting missionary or the youth group fundraiser or the new building fund, knowing that I have a "stash" of cash I'm trying to save for a vacation. No, I'm not worrying about my salvation or anything, but wondering if it's right for me to hold back from those in need. Am I the only one who struggles with this?

 

[dvcgirl]

If it was net, I'd have always been home free, since our net is very low LOL. We had a lot taken out for taxes, retirement, savings, pre taxed medical, etc.

Although I think it's very clear in the Bible (the first fruits..back then, it was usually the harvest, or the payment of the harvest, and taxes weren't removed..you paid them to Ceasar yourself after the fact), you just have to settle it between you and God. The Bible wouldn't say gross versus net, since there was no such thing back then (taxes taken out before you either had yoru harvest, or payment of it).

As I stated, we tithe, and we also give...and that give includes money, items, and time. Our tithe is just that..a tithe of our first fruits, not to be confused with giving.

While I think this is an interesting thread, I think it would be counterproductive to argue about when the 10% should be taken out, since those who don't want to, or feel they shouldn't have to pay 10% of their gross won't, and those who think they should will. It's only God and your inner feelings you have to settle up with, not people on a board.

Most people who tithe are involved in their churches, and well understand the cost of heat/electric/building upkeep and growth/salaries, as well as what it costs to send out missionaries, and to help feed the local and outreaching poor. It must be very hard for a church without tithing members to stay even, let alone grown. We are not a rich church in finances, since so much of the intake is outtake, but we are a very blessed church.


[=DiznEeyore]Exactly. Your opinion. I don't think anyone has a right to say "it should be gross for a true tithe." NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that. I give of the firstfruits that come into my household, and yup, I give 10%, plus my time, support a sponsor child, give other gifts and more.

NO ONE better ever tell me I don't give "a true tithe".

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[/QUOTE]

I agree, it seems kind of silly to me to be arguing over pre-tax vs post-tax, benefits, "tithing vs giving", "you're supposed to give until you feel the burn".....it's nuts. It's almost like there's a "keep up with the Joneses" element to all of this. We give 10%, oh but *we* give 10% of our gross income, not net....oh but *we* tithe *and* we give. Isn't that being a little ridiculous. Giving is giving....end of story. Whether you give to a family member, or to a church or to your favorite charity. I didn't know that God had so many rules, well I know the big ten rules . I guess I just don't get it.

 

[dvcgirl]

This has been a fascinating discussion! I don't want to get into the debate about whether 10% is from your net or gross income, but I do believe that the tithe is meant to support your home church. My struggle, however, is more worldly, I'm afraid. This is the DIS after all, so maybe you all could advise me. We give our tithe to our church, and additional gifts and offerings as needs arise and we are able, but I still want to save up for another trip to Disney World. I feel sooooooo guilty when I fail to give something to the visiting missionary or the youth group fundraiser or the new building fund, knowing that I have a "stash" of cash I'm trying to save for a vacation. No, I'm not worrying about my salvation or anything, but wondering if it's right for me to hold back from those in need. Am I the only one who struggles with this?

I would imagine that you're not the only one who struggles with this since this discussion about tithing is taking place not only on a budget board, but a budget board housed on a Disney Fan website . Of course, I'm certainly not the one to give you advice on this, since I'm clearly the least religious person participating in this conversation, but I'm thinking that God would be okay with you having a little fun every now and again. The way that some here make it sound is that they give so much that they must either make mega-salaries or they live in a hut.......

There will always be people in need....you can't save the world. If you're giving you're already light years ahead of the majority of our population.....