Tithing- Let's discuss it

Maybelle said:
Not sure where the scripture reference is, but I believe the Bible asks us to give of the "Firstfruits." That, to me would mean gross, not net, after Uncle Sam gets their share, as well as any pre-tax deductions are taken out.
Thanks to you and ReneeQ for the replies and not being irritated with me, LOL!

I see what you're saying, but I guess at our house, we view "firstfruits" as what we actually *get*, not what is legally demanded by "Caesar", so to speak. I can't see that God would expect us to tithe off money we'll never, ever have. Dh and I see taxes as giving to Caesar what is Caesar's, and when Caesar gives us what's left, we then give to God first, before taking any for ourselves. :)

And He has always blessed us enormously, so until He convicts us to tithe off money we'll never have, we'll continue to do it this way. But thanks for the discussion!!! :)
 
Okay guys, let's get down to it. I know we are supposed to tithe. I believe it is biblical. I just can't quite get us there though. DH is ready for it, but we have spent so many years being dirt broke, we are just crawling out of the hole now that we are both working again. I LIKE being able to pay big chunks off of debt and get ourselves together. I understand fully--believe me I do, that we would not have these new jobs with His blessing. So why can't I convict my heart to do what is right? Sorry to be so intense, but I am really struggling with this right now and I was amazed to see the topic posted.
 
MKCP5--I am in almost precisely the same place as you are. We are in prayer about what to do right now. It is scary to take that risk, isn't it? It is truly a test of faith for me. Right now, we tithe, or give regularly and at least what we have pledged to give if not more. But we are not at 10% that is for sure. Part of me says "No way can we afford that." And then the other part of me says He has gotten us through everything so far and will continue to provide what we need.

Anway even though almost everyone who has posted so far is tithing 10%, I want to let you know you are not alone in this stuggle. It's hard.
 
What a great thread- I find the replies really interesting. I also believe that tithing 10% before taxes is the right thing to do, and I do it with the money I earn. Unfortunately my husband is not completely on board with this, and it's been an "issue" with us. I keep praying about it and hope that he'll come around. He gives some of his money, but definitely not 10%. I hope that my tithing is enough for us to be blessed. I have backed down and stopped nagging him about it, and hope that I can lead by example. He seems to be coming around a little more.
 

Great topic!

I think it comes down to a faith issue....

I'm trying to raise my children with the belief that it doesn't "hurt" to tithe...it only blesses. My weakness is in my faith to believe that He truly will provide. I KNOW He will...but I begrudge Him the full 10% due to circumstances...

Luckily, I have a dh who is highly supportive of us giving 10% and we ask forgiveness when we fail. We do great for a period, then life hits...his employer loses their contract, he must take a job out of state, it takes over 1 year to get us moved and now we have two mortgages....yes, I guess I could qualify the statement "we can't afford to...at this time"...but the wiser side of me says, "We can't afford not to tithe at this time." But words speak less than action and right now it's only the words I can get out not the tithe.

When our house sells, we are going back to fully tithing 10% of our gross. But why couldn't I have been convicted enough to tithe when it seemed impossible? Because just that "it SEEMED impossible"....but with God is anything IMPOSSIBLE? Does he not watch over us as closely as the sparrow?

It shouldn't hurt to tithe...and I believe that with my spiritual maturity it will be realized as a privilege to tithe....I still have images of my parents arguing over my mother giving thousands of dollars in tithing and my father having a FIT. The thousands she gave were nowhere near the due amount if you add up all their years of earnings...but it was a gesture of good will on my mother's part to sacrifice to see it happen. But do they tithe today? No. I just pray that when I am her age that tithing is automatic...just like that car payment or mortgage payment we never fail to pay....whose are they?

Sorry to sound preachy but I've struggled with this issue and if I know it in my heart...and state it in black and white it will help me live it.

I hope we all get to that point in our walk that tithing is no longer an issue...my children have no problem giving...they want and have at times given all of their earnings to God through missions and other areas...so atleast I'm planting that seed early and not putting my children through what I saw as a constant struggle with my parents. But when they ask, "Mom, do you tithe?" (They're still at that age that they assume that's what you should do that mommy & daddy must certainly do it) I will proudly say, "Yes, I do."

Tara
 
Ok, maybe I shouldn't post here...after all, I'm a PW (pastor's wife). My dh is a "circuit rider", meaning he actually pastors 3 different churches. I believe in tithing 10% of our income, giving it back to God. Does that mean that it has to go to our local church? In our situation, which church gets the $$ :confused3 It's really a strange situation to be in, and we're fairly new to it. When my dh wasn't a pastor, we tithed directly to the church we were attending.
For now, we've been giving to DMLive and other Christian organizations because we know that God is using them in tremendous ways to reach the lost. I haven't felt a conviction from God that we're doing the wrong thing here, so I guess we'll continue to give to these organizations.
 
disneymom3 thank you for your support. I have been in prayer that we will get there. I know it is the right thing to do. I guess I just need to surrender fully. If you count the hours volunteered, the missions work, the donations to missions, etc. We would easily be at our tithe. But I don't believe that is biblical. I believe it is 10% to your church and all the rest is over and above if you choose to do more. Am I wrong in saying that is what scripture says? I also don't want to "qualify" our gifts to Him that way. It is your first fruits of your labor. Not the "what have I got left in my pantry for you" portion!

It certainly is a diffficult issue and personal decision. We have members of our church who have given testimony as to how they have tithed since they were children and how it is just automatic for them....how in every struggle it has still upheld them. I was not raised in that manner. I never even heard of tithing until I was well into my 30's!! So I continue to work to get there. He alone knows how many ways He has already changed and convicted my heart since I was reborn with Him. I am confident that He can do this too!
 
For those of God's followers who have tithed faithfully during their lives, will God reach out and help them in their own times of need, even if in better times they were like the Grasshopper in the parable of The Ant And The Grasshopper, enjoying proliferous vacations at WDW?

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm
 
emer95 said:
What a great thread- I find the replies really interesting. I also believe that tithing 10% before taxes is the right thing to do, and I do it with the money I earn. Unfortunately my husband is not completely on board with this, and it's been an "issue" with us. I keep praying about it and hope that he'll come around. He gives some of his money, but definitely not 10%. I hope that my tithing is enough for us to be blessed. I have backed down and stopped nagging him about it, and hope that I can lead by example. He seems to be coming around a little more.

"I hope that my tithing is enough for us to be blessed". I guess this is the mentality that I struggle with, for those of you who tithe or struggle to get to 10% of your gross income. Does God have a calculator? I'm not trying to be snippy either, but is there serious pressure put upon you by your church to give all of the time? Isn't this a turn off to you? My DH and I were raised as Catholics, and at least in our churches, the 10% figure is foreign to me. We're no longer "practicing Catholics" as we have many issues that we just can't resolve in our own minds with the Catholic church. We do donate to many charities throughout the year, but I guess I'd feel sort of taken advantage of by any organization that preached to me that if I didn't give 10% God would look unfavorably upon me. Do any of you feel that way? Again, no disprespect meant whatsoever, it's an honest question. I was really surprised by the one post where someone said that their Pastor actually said that it's not only 10% of your gross income, but that you also have to count 10% of the benefits that your company provides. Where does it say *that* in the Bible.
 
seashoreCM said:
For those of God's followers who have tithed faithfully during their lives, will God reach out and help them in their own times of need, even if in better times they were like the Grasshopper in the parable of The Ant And The Grasshopper, enjoying proliferous vacations at WDW?

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm


I'm not understanding what you say. Should we not enjoy vacations..ever?
 
Just thought maybe some of you may be interested in this acticle:

Tithing vs. Giving

FAQ: Most churches I have been to teach rather emphatically that Christians should “tithe,” that is, give 10% of their income to their church. I have even heard some ministers say that if you don’t tithe, God will not bless you. What does the Bible say about financial giving?

“What does the Bible say?” is always the “bottom line” in life, but that vital question needs a qualifier: “To whom?” The Bible, the Word of God, most certainly does speak about financial giving, and a good case can be made that it is one of the five most basic activities for a Christian, the others being prayer, Bible reading and study, fellowship with other Christians, and telling others the Good News about Jesus Christ.

The question must be: “What does the Bible say TO CHRISTIANS about financial giving?” Why? Because what God says to Christians about financial giving is different than what He said to the Jews of the Old Testament about it. The sad news is that today very few Christians understand the difference, and, as a result, many are unnecessarily living under emotional and financial stress.

And, as is so often the case in examining a biblical issue, that takes us to the subject of the administrations in Scripture. Unless we understand what parts of God’s Word are written to Jews, what parts are written to Gentiles, and what parts are written to Christians, we can neither understand nor apply its truths in our daily lives.

We are currently living in what the Bible calls the Administration of the Secret (Eph. 3:9), which began on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1ff) and will conclude with the Rapture of the Church (all living and dead Christians meeting the Lord in the air—1 Thess. 4:13-18). The primary curriculum for Christians (i.e., people born again of God’s incorruptible seed) is found in the Church Epistles: Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, and 1 & 2 Thessalonians. It is there that we must look to find God’s specific directions for us today, and the issue of financial giving is given two chapters worth of ink in 2 Corinthians 8 & 9.

There are also some pertinent verses in other Epistles, and the message of Scripture to Christians is that because of the finished work of Jesus Christ, we do not live under the Mosaic Law, during which tithing was instituted and commanded as part of the Law. Therefore, tithing as a commandment of God has no relevance to believers today.

At this point, it is important to distinguish between tithing and giving. Although tithing per se is not relevant to Christians, giving most certainly is. As a member in particular of the Body of Christ, each Christian is to determine in his own heart how much he gives and where he allocates his resources among his brothers and sisters in Christ (2 Cor. 9:7). The Epistles metaphor by which material giving is strongly encouraged is that of sowing and reaping—the more you sow, the more you reap (2 Cor. 9:6). “Tithing” is never mentioned.

We are working on a booklet on this subject, and it may be titled, In Response to a Blessing, because that is the biblical basis for giving. Under the Law, Jews were to give out of their produce, that is, what the Lord had provided for them. Just like the Word says, “We love God because He first loved us,” so we give because God has given to us. When we understand what God has done for us in Christ, and that the material blessings we have come from Him, and that He promises to bless us back for what we give, giving cheerfully is a joy.

Even in the Old Testament, believers understood that when they gave to God, they were opening a door, if you will, for Him to bless them in return. This is, of course, still true, but the idea has been distorted by some Christians who teach that one must give to God before God can bless him. Thus, too many Christians are giving in order to get. No, God always gives first.

Also, He does not specify just how He will bless us. If we sow, we will reap accordingly, but it may not be money for money, etc. Some Christians have become disillusioned about giving because when they gave money to their church, etc., they did not receive money back. They may have even failed to notice the blessing that God did give them. When we give in response to a blessing, and not so that we will get blessed, we can be cheerful and contented givers.

Making known the truth about this subject is critical, because the vast majority of Christians is told, and thus believes, that it is God’s will for them to “tithe,” which means to give one-tenth of what they earn. Many of the more “fundamental” Christian groups are adamant about this, and accompany this exhortation with a warning that failure to tithe will result in consequences of various kinds, usually having to do with a lack of prosperity.
In many groups, this has become little more than ecclesiastical extortion, with church leaders using the lever of people’s sincere desire to do what God says is right to squeeze money out of them. Such leaders proclaim that what God says is right is that you give at least ten percent of your income—to their organization. As a result of such pressure, financial giving has, for too many Christians, become a joyless, mechanical act of “bribing” God to avoid the consequences of not giving, and an attempt to earn His favor (something they already have!).

For many other Christians who once gave cheerfully, financial giving is no longer an act at all. They have stopped doing it altogether, either because they got sick and tired of the pressure being applied to them, or they really could not afford to tithe, or they saw the money they gave misused and feel that they were cheated when they did give.
Neither of these attitudes—giving joylessly or not giving at all—is biblically right, neither is the will of God, and both are therefore detrimental to a believer. That fits with John 8:32, where Jesus said that experientially knowing the truth, that is, practicing it, will make one free. Conversely, error regarding the Bible (the truth) will put people in bondage. And financial giving is a category in which countless Christian people are being subjected to the bondage of guilt and put through an emotional wringer they do not deserve.

If you feel that the above describes you, take heart, because you can be set free by the truth of God's Word. Then you can also share with others the treasure you have found. In our economically driven world of today, having the right attitude about money and material things is a huge asset in life. Knowing and practicing what God's Word says about financial giving will enable you to experience the joy of giving, and it will enable others in the Body of Christ to experience the joy of receiving and therefore having their needs met, so that together we can reach out with the Good News of God to a dying world.

A study of the Old Testament will show that tithing was instituted as part of the Mosaic Law to Israel. Some Christians point to Genesis 14 and/or 28 in a misguided attempt to prove that tithing was instituted prior to the Mosaic Law and is therefore relevant to Christians today. Their rationale is that because Abram gave ten per cent of the spoils of war to Melchisedek, and because Jacob chose ten per cent as the amount to give to God for watching over him on his journey, this is the prescribed amount God would have all people give. This is not sound biblical scholarship.

The Genesis 14 record takes place approximately 2000 years after Adam and Eve, and during all those years there is no biblical reference to tithing. Nor is there any record that Abram ever tithed as a result of some biblical law that told him to do so, and he certainly was “making money!” When he did give one tenth, it was not of the increase of his flocks and herds, which was the tithe prescribed by the Law, but rather of the spoils of war that he had gained by defeating the army from Mesopotamia.

In Genesis 28, Jacob told God that if He would keep him safe on his journey, keep him clothed and fed, and bring him home safely, he would give God a tenth of what he had. That was certainly not the Mosaic tithe, which was commanded whether or not those things happened. Both Jacob and Abram gave in response to a blessing.

Even in regard to Israel, for whom the tithe was specifically instituted, nothing was said about it until the beginning of the second year of their exodus. Prior to that, in Exodus 25, for the building of the Tabernacle, Moses instructed the Israelites to give “as their heart prompted them.”
You often hear proponents of the tithe say that surely Christians would do no less than what Jews did in the Old Testament, as if every Israelite gave ten per cent of his income. A detailed study of the tithe is beyond the scope of this FAQ, but suffice it to say that the idea that each Israelite gave ten per cent of his income (and therefore each Christian should do likewise) is far from the truth.

For example, an Israelite who had fewer than ten cattle born to him in a year did not have to tithe on them because the requirement stated that only the tenth animal that passed under the rod was to be tithed (Lev. 27:32). A farmer who had only eight cows born was therefore exempt from the tithe.
The tithe was basically on animal and agricultural products, and was paid in kind (i.e., the product itself). If one did not wish to pay his tithe in agricultural products, and decided to give money as a substitute, he was penalized and had to add a fifth part of its estimated value to the amount he paid (Lev. 27:31). Such a law was obviously not intended to encourage payment of the tithe in money.

The main purpose of the tithe was to support the Levitical priesthood. The Levites were responsible to minister to the people, and were prohibited from owning land, which obviously limited the ways in which they could earn income. God’s plan was that their support came from those to whom they ministered, much like the direction of Scripture for the Church today (1 Cor. 9:1ff; Gal. 6:6ff, etc.). The tithe also provided welfare for widows, orphans, etc.

One reason why there was no command to tithe until the Mosaic Law was that until then there was no Tabernacle (Tent of Meeting) and no Temple, no regular sacrifices commanded (the daily sacrifices alone commanded by the Law required more than 700 animals a year), and no class of Levitical priests to support. None of these would be relevant to a Christian today, even if they did exist.

Should a Christian today tithe? One is free to give 10% if he chooses, but we are not commanded to give any particular percentage or amount. Sad to say that many Christians, once misled and often emotionally coerced into tithing, stopped giving altogether when they learned the tithe is not required. 2 Corinthians 9:6 and 7 make it clear that the more generously we “sow” with the right attitude, the more abundantly we will reap.

For some believers who do not earn much, giving generously may not mean a large amount. For others, it may mean millions of dollars, and far more than 10%. Each Christian’s situation is different, and that is why God does not prescribe specific amounts that we should give, but allows us to make our own decisions. Remember, we are “fellow laborers” with Him, and He loves to work with us in determining how much and to whom we should give, and He loves to bless us with more so that we can give more. That kind of giving makes for an exciting element of the Christian life.

You may say, “Well, what about Malachi 3:6-10? That says people who do not tithe are ‘robbing God.’” Those verses have been used innumerable times to prod Christians into giving, but wait a moment—TO WHOM is Malachi written? Well, in verse 9 of chapter 3 it says “the whole nation” is under a curse. What nation? The USA? No, the book of Malachi is specifically addressed to the nation of Israel, and more specifically to the priests (see 1:6,10-13; 2:1,7 and 8) who were badly mistreating God’s people. To use verses from Malachi as if they are talking to Christians is at best poor scholarship and at worst dishonest.

So what should Christians do about financial giving? 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 is the first place to go to find the answer to that question, and the heart of the message there is expressed in 9:7: “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” If, for you, that’s ten per cent, great.

Beyond that, Scripture directs us to give to those who are genuinely ministering to our spiritual needs. When we do, we are making a sound investment in (that is, sowing into) a work that is bearing good spiritual fruit. Although there is no way we can help everyone who asks us, we are also encouraged to give to those in need, and we can seek the Lord for wisdom in doing so.

For a Christian, giving from the heart is all about knowing that we have a great, big, wonderful God, and also understanding who we are in Christ. Speaking of the attitude of the believers in Corinth about financial giving, Paul said: "This they did, not as we hoped, but even beyond that, first they gave their own selves to the Lord, and to us, by the will of God” (2 Cor. 8:5). As Christians, each of us has been “bought with a price.” We (let alone our material possessions) don't even belong to ourselves. When you know that you belong to the Lord, and that everything that you have belongs to the Lord, and that he is responsible to keep his promises to care for you, then you can truly be a cheerful giver.
 
dvcgirl said:
I was really surprised by the one post where someone said that their Pastor actually said that it's not only 10% of your gross income, but that you also have to count 10% of the benefits that your company provides. Where does it say *that* in the Bible.

It is 10% of your income---period.

If you have cash benefits/bonuses--that counts as income..then that is included.

I don't have a Bible quote off hand for you, sorry.

The blessings are the benefit--but doing it in exchange for a blessing....isn't right IMHO.

You should "feel" a slight pinch that you are giving----so sure...you might not be able to get that latte...or the cookies on your grocery list. However--if you are struggling to pay the bills...you give as much as you can as long as those bills are paid. If you can't pay your mortgage...and will lose your house. I'm sorry--but the bankruptcy judge isn't going ot understand that you gave 1000s to charity. They won't care. Some will step their faith up and do such a thing....I guess I'm not as faithful.

But for those who say they want to but can't afford it and have luxuries--well time to reevaluate the luxuries--b/c then you are letting materialism get in the way of your relationship with God.

I would so LOVE to have that money that my church gets...we have realigned our finances--so I have half the budget obligations and hubby has the other half. While I fine tune and learn how to have enough money for gas and groceries each week (I have it--I get the money at the beginning of the month and it is a lesson in patience to space it out properly)....some weeks I give to church and some I don't--but I catch it up the next time.

We did try to not tithe and that lasted all of 2 weeks. We didn't like how we felt or the "murphy's law" happenings. I said enough of this--back to donating....and then everything was fine. I think that was God's way of saying to trust Him.

We've been blessed with good income---so we should "pay it forward" which I think is the essential backbone of tithing--you've been blessed, so bless others. While we lived a lifestyle we shouldn't have for a while (running up credit cards and stuff)---that isn't God's fault, that is our fault. So other sacrifices should be made before we say we aren't going to bless others.

The church uses the 10% rule---and I don't blame them one bit. We did attend one parish that was money money money all the time--at least at this mass. We never went to another there. We found another church--they talk about it once year and I'm fine with that. They've got a budget to make after all.

churches have no right to know your income to see if you are following through. I would run from any church that ever asked to see our paycheck to verify what we should be giving.
 
Brier Rose--who wrote that article and what denomination are they.

I ask b/c I think that is important to know the perspective of the writer.

His/her article conflicts with the entire mission of Crown Ministries (www.crown.org) that developed a whole finanical Bible study based.

I think the Bible as a whole can be applied today---not just the new testament.
 
dvcgirl, no my church does not "pressure" me to do this. I would feel uncomfortable too if that were the case. I also was taken aback by the post that said a pastor who says you should tithe on benefits etc. That is a little more personal than I care to get about my finances with my pastor.--but to each his own.
Tithing is scriptural. It your offering of the "firstfruits" of your harvest. Giving your very finest to Christ, not what you have leftover after paying the bills, setting aside for vacation, going out to dinner and buying a new outfit. Many churches do not use the bible fully. They use the passages that are relevant to that days sermon. Without pointing fingers at any particular churches, many do not even have bibles in their pews. I know that seems different, but I have been to several for weddings, baptisms, services with a friend, etc. where there are no bibles present. Again, to each his own. No judgements here. Please do not roast me! So because the bible is not studied fully there is alot that is missed. We attend Sunday school every sunday morning just like our children do as well as a church service. Because there is so much more to be learned!!
As far as "I hope my offerings are enough for us to be blessed" I do not agree with this either. Your decisions about this are yours alone, and you reconcile that with Christ. I believe with my fullest heart that he knows yours and my struggle to do this. He is working with me to get there, not judging me for not getting there yet. :flower: His love for you is not contingent on anything. It is just love.

PS Love this topic. It is the most honest and open one I have found here and so far no one is being judgemental !! Just working towards a commmon understanding--excellent!!
 
Lisa loves Pooh said:
It is 10% of your income---period.

If you have cash benefits/bonuses--that counts as income..then that is included.

I don't have a Bible quote off hand for you, sorry.

The blessings are the benefit--but doing it in exchange for a blessing....isn't right IMHO.

You should "feel" a slight pinch that you are giving----so sure...you might not be able to get that latte...or the cookies on your grocery list. However--if you are struggling to pay the bills...you give as much as you can as long as those bills are paid. If you can't pay your mortgage...and will lose your house. I'm sorry--but the bankruptcy judge isn't going ot understand that you gave 1000s to charity. They won't care. Some will step their faith up and do such a thing....I guess I'm not as faithful.

But for those who say they want to but can't afford it and have luxuries--well time to reevaluate the luxuries--b/c then you are letting materialism get in the way of your relationship with God.

I would so LOVE to have that money that my church gets...we have realigned our finances--so I have half the budget obligations and hubby has the other half. While I fine tune and learn how to have enough money for gas and groceries each week (I have it--I get the money at the beginning of the month and it is a lesson in patience to space it out properly)....some weeks I give to church and some I don't--but I catch it up the next time.

We did try to not tithe and that lasted all of 2 weeks. We didn't like how we felt or the "murphy's law" happenings. I said enough of this--back to donating....and then everything was fine. I think that was God's way of saying to trust Him.

We've been blessed with good income---so we should "pay it forward" which I think is the essential backbone of tithing--you've been blessed, so bless others. While we lived a lifestyle we shouldn't have for a while (running up credit cards and stuff)---that isn't God's fault, that is our fault. So other sacrifices should be made before we say we aren't going to bless others.

The church uses the 10% rule---and I don't blame them one bit. We did attend one parish that was money money money all the time--at least at this mass. We never went to another there. We found another church--they talk about it once year and I'm fine with that. They've got a budget to make after all.

churches have no right to know your income to see if you are following through. I would run from any church that ever asked to see our paycheck to verify what we should be giving.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm glad you found a church where you are comfortable. I wouldn't have liked it either if a church talked money-money-money all the time. That would be a huge turn-off to me.

We're not very religious in the sense that we don't go to a church to worship. We are however involved in the community and give nice donations to four charities that have a special place in our hearts. We also contribute on a regular basis to local animal shelters and animal groups. We are very fortunate and definitely believe in "paying it forward", and we do that.

I just wonder, how do the Churches who push for 10% feel about retirement, college educations and personal savings. Are you allowed to fund those things before giving your 10% to the church? And if you are able to adequately fund retirement and education funds, what if there is literally nothing left after paying the bills? Are you permitted to go on vacations and things like that? If you do go to WDW and didn't hit your 10% this year is that considered a sin?

Also, do you get financial statements so that you can see where the money is going? 10% of a congregations gross income could amount to a *ton* of money. Some of these TV evangelists are just dripping in money....multi-millionaires who are buying mansions and Bentleys off of the money that little old poor ladies are sending. Do you see where the money is going?
 
Lisa loves Pooh said:
It is 10% of your income---period.

(Caveat: Not "picking on you", Lisa loves Pooh ... just quoting you 'cuz you said it so succinctly.) I still don't get how you all figure you have to tithe off your gross? To me, "income" is what comes IN to the household. Money the government takes never comes IN to the household. I don't get to figure it into my budget; it's never mine to begin with; if I tried to take it, I'd be thrown in jail, as the government says it's THEIR money. I'm just scratchin' my head at that. But if it works for you and that's what you feel led to do, more power to you!!! I would just hate for someone reading this and struggling to even get somewhere near 10% to feel that this was *mandated* Biblically.

And for the person who asked about whether God blesses the tithing and takes care of us in our times of need, my dh has been unemployed for six months and we've continued to tithe, even off his unemployment checks. And we haven't had to dip into our savings yet. Now, did we take any trips this year? No -- we cancelled our planned Disney trip. We're hoping (God willing) to be able to go at the end of next year. It's all about balance, of course!! But in answer to your question, I can say that God does take care of us, ABUNDANTLY!!! :teeth:
 
The first 10% of all that I earn (gross income) is tithed to the church I attend. Another 1-3% each year goes to other charitable organizations. (I love giving!!) Another 10% goes toward retirement investing. I live comfortably on the other 77-79%. No, I'm not a high income earner. But the Lord has been generous and blessed me faithfully. My vacations and other enjoyable activities come out of the 77-79%.

If times get tough, I'll cut back on retirement investing, vacations, luxuries, etc. for a while but not on the tithe.

For me, I always have to remind myself that it is GOD'S money I'm being entrusted with. Giving back to the Lord is my thank offering to Him.

Interesting thread.
 
"I just wonder, how do the Churches who push for 10% feel about retirement, college educations and personal savings. Are you allowed to fund those things before giving your 10% to the church? And if you are able to adequately fund retirement and education funds, what if there is literally nothing left after paying the bills? Are you permitted to go on vacations and things like that? If you do go to WDW and didn't hit your 10% this year is that considered a sin?

Also, do you get financial statements so that you can see where the money is going? 10% of a congregations gross income could amount to a *ton* of money. Some of these TV evangelists are just dripping in money....multi-millionaires who are buying mansions and Bentleys off of the money that little old poor ladies are sending. Do you see where the money is going?"



God doesn't bless us because of our tithe...he blesses us because He loves us, and because we have done the only work that he requires of us...to believe on HIM who He has sent...He blesses us in ways much more than material possessions...He blesses us with wisdom to know which church He needs our tithing at...He blesses us by using us for His purpose...which is more of a "reward" than a visit to Disney (although in my experience, He did use a trip to Disney to help a dear friend of mine with terminal cancer)...

Let me try and answer your questions individually...
1. Where were retirement funds, college savings, and personal savings 100 years ago? 200 hundred years ago? 500 years ago? What did Jesus do to the moneychangers using the temple for work other than worship? In short, what should come first is our faith in Him and our commitment to honoring him. I think we dishonor God by not trusting that he will be our retirement fund, our college savings...etc. I have heard stories of families who thought they were prudently saving for their retirement only to find out the company had borrowed against the retirement funds to float the company's bills and all was lost. But then, when they thought all was lost in spite of having "planned"....the money comes in strange in wondrous ways. I have been blessed in seeing how God works...it's much greater than any way that we could provide for ourselves. I'm not saying to abandon all savings...just that you must give to God what is His and to Caesar what is his....

2. Nothing left after paying the bills. Let's face it, the majority of us out there are making more than we did 10 years ago. When I first started out my salary was in the 30's...we fed a family of 3 and provided just fine on that...our salary has increased since then, but if needed I could live on a salary of 30k...it would just mean readjusting and moving to a smaller house. If we start giving 10% off the top and budget without it...we will still manage...it's just that we haven't..we're a society that depends on capitalism and we spend as we get. That's wrong...we need to rethink what our "needs" are. I see families with 2 new car payments or worse yet...leases...that's 10% right there...what if they kept their cars for 10 years plus...you don't need a new car every 5 years....I know many of us don't..but some of those saying they can't tithe do.

3. All sins are equal in the sight of the Lord. What He wants from us, is faith and honor. Tithing shows honor...when it brings about discussions over specifics on what to tithe it takes away from the honor...because it shows we don't have the faith required for us to let it go.

4. You may not always see where the money is going..but every church I have attended is faithful in reporting where the money goes...the missionaries come and share how the giving has affected the people where they serve, you hear the testimonies of how the church helped a family whose house had burned..you must find a church that you feel the Holy Spirit is leading you to and pray for discernment on finding one that will honor God through all things, worship, praise, tithing, pastorship etc.

Some good questions and I'm so glad you're thinking about it...that's the first step. We're all not there...we're all not perfect as He is...but the more we trust in Him the more our lives will bless others.

Tara
 
Lisa loves Pooh said:
Brier Rose--who wrote that article and what denomination are they.

I ask b/c I think that is important to know the perspective of the writer.

His/her article conflicts with the entire mission of Crown Ministries (www.crown.org) that developed a whole finanical Bible study based.

I think the Bible as a whole can be applied today---not just the new testament.

It is from Spirit and Truth Fellowship International - Christian Educational Services.

They are non-denominational, as am I.

While I do think that all of the Bible is relevant to today, there are lots of things practiced in the Old Testament that have been "done away with" by the New Testement.

Really, I'm not trying to get into a debate about this. This has been something I have struggled with in the past, and prayed about a lot. I found this article very interesting and well thought out, biblicly researched, etc., and I though some here might benefit from it.

Anyway...a little more information about the source...

Spirit & Truth Fellowship International is a worldwide community of Christians who desire to make known the written Word of God so as to proclaim the Good News of the Lord Jesus Christ. As a legal entity, we are a non-profit, tax-exempt United States (Indiana) corporation.

Our Mission Statement is: "To glorify the One True God and the Lord Jesus Christ by providing sound biblical teaching and a spiritually-empowered fellowship community so that all people may be saved, come to a knowledge of the truth, and become established in faithful and fruitful Christian living."

Our name is partially derived from Jesus' statement in John 4:23 that God is seeking people to worship Him "in spirit and in truth." As that is the only thing stated in Scripture that God seeks, we believe it is imperative that our ministry is oriented to that way of honoring our God. We are a community of worshipers, knit together by the love of God and a common belief of His Word ("the truth"). We seek to empower each believer involved in our ministry to exercise his own unique giftings in accordance with his personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ

The basis for all our efforts is the Bible, which we believe to be the Word of God, perfect in its original writing. So-called errors, contradictions, or discrepancies are the result of man's subsequent interference in the transmission of the text, mistranslations, or failure to understand what is written. Spirit & Truth Fellowship International draws from all relevant sources that shed light on the integrity of Scripture, whether in the field of geography, customs, language, history, or principles governing Bible interpretation. Our goal is to seek the truth without respect to tradition or "orthodoxy."

Jesus said that knowing the truth would set one free, and our teachings are oriented to improving one's quality of life. Our goal is to provide healthy biblical teaching that helps people enjoy the fruits of salvation and authentic Christ-like living. When accurately understood, the Word of God brings great deliverance from fear, doubt, and worry, and leads the individual Christian to genuine freedom, confidence, and joy in living. Beyond such practical blessings, however, our goal is to enable each believer to study the Bible for himself so that he is able to develop his own convictions, separate truth from error, and become an effective communicator of God's Word, and successfully live in community with other committed Christians.
 
Thank you for all of the replies. It is thought provoking to hear what others believe about this subject.

I am not surprised that a pastor would say that you have to tithe on all income, benefits, etc... because that was the type of church that I was raised in. As an adult, though I feel that a pastor should stick with what is in the Bible and let the congregants decide for themselves how to interpret it to their own lives. We have found a church that does just that. I realize that a church depends on the offerings of it's members but I would be uncomfortable in a church that mentions it too frequently.

The reason that we have chosen to give to many organizations and not just one church is because we attend a very wealthy church. Our church has large fund balances and investments. Giving that would increase the wealth of this church rather than giving to organizations with more need doesn't feel right. Our church does a lot to help the community but still maintains this wealth. As long as that is the case, we will donate to causes that have a greater need.

By the way, I think that pastors should be paid well and I appreciate the beautiful facilities but I wish that a larger portion of the excess that the church has would be used to help those in need.
 


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