Tipping overload?

[disney-inspired]

Fast food places are not designed to pay a 'living wage' which is why they mostly hire teenagers who are still living at home and seniors who just want to supplement their income. If they have to pay someone a 'living wage' get ready for the $20 burger at McDonalds.

Not really true - McDs is hiring people at $17 or $18 where I live and burgers aren't $20.

 

[tvguy]

I don't know if any food allergy lawsuits or manslaughter charges have occurred in USA. But never say never. People are crazy and have sued over much less.

I had a College Intern under my supervision who had severe food allergies. She said she can't trust any food she didn't prepare herself because restaurants deal with so many items she was allergic to, it is unreasonable for her to expect them to prevent cross contamination. She can't even walk into a restaurant where eggs are prepared without getting a reaction just to the smell. She carries Epi Pens and Benadryl but still ends up in the hospital a few times a year due to reactions. She's 29 now, and has such severe reactions that she has been told by Doctors that they expect her to have a fatal reaction to something before she reaches age 40.
She has to take complete responsibility for her allergies.

 

[starlite_]

I only tip when given awesome service. Maybe will tip 10% at restaurants if the food is great. Otherwise no, expecting customers to give you free money just because is ridiculous. Feels like a hidden charge you wanna spring on me.

 

[dez1978]

Not sure a server at a Waffle House in a state with a $2.13 minimum wage would fit this description, but at least here in California before the pandemic, a good server in a well run restaurant could make darn good money in tips. We did a research project on wages in 2014 and several people who planned to quit their server jobs when they got their Bachelor's degrees didn;t because serving part time paid them more than a job that required a Bachelors degree.

20 some years ago I worked at a buffet place making 2.13/hr and with tips made more money now than I do as a 20 year state employee. So I have no doubt that now a 2.13/hr server at a Waffle House can make $20/hr in tips if they are a halfway decent server

What would be an example of a customer complaining about a job done correctly?

No related to serving, but we had someone complain that our fish tasted "fishy" and wanted a refund even tho she'd eaten 3 plates of other food from the buffet. I'm not sure what she expected fish to taste like, if not fishy.
Other things would be when they request a steak medium but their idea of medium is medium well, not a true medium. The food was prepared as requested, but sometimes people don't request what they really want. Or they don't read the menu description fully and are then mad that there are onions in a dish that was described as having onions. It sounds silly I know, but it happens.

 

[tvguy]

20 some years ago I worked at a buffet place making 2.13/hr and with tips made more money now than I do as a 20 year state employee. So I have no doubt that now a 2.13/hr server at a Waffle House can make $20/hr in tips if they are a halfway decent server

I can see that, but I never worked in a tipped position, so no first hand experience. I had a co-worker who worked a side gig at a sports bar. She was a VERY outgoing, VERY flirty redhead and was very generous with tip sharing. I think she said her tip record was $600 in a 5 hour shift before tip sharing. New wait staff used to "turn her in" to the manager for comping out appetizers. Manager pointed out that her tables bought more alcohol per person than anyone else on the staff. Giving away 99 cents worth of chicken wings prompted her tables to spend another $40-50 on another round of drinks.

 

[Pink Partridge]

No related to serving, but we had someone complain that our fish tasted "fishy" and wanted a refund even tho she'd eaten 3 plates of other food from the buffet.

Ugh. I know someone like this and avoid them at all costs. Just unbearable to be around.

 

[EACarlson]

That is just stupid IMO. Why can't you do cheese on only half the pizza? Can you do NO CHEESE ? I totally understand the allergy thing. It would be a liability if a mushroom accidently was on the wrong half.

There is no way to stop what cheese does on a pizza once it's in the oven or after it comes out. Also almost impossible to cut without dragging cheese onto the non-cheese side.

You didn't really mention the allergy until the next sentence, you mentioned half cheese first. Is there a reason you don't want to accommodate an order of no cheese on one side? Are you that way with toppings too or just when someone mentions an allergen to a topping? This sounds a lot more like you are deciding you don't want deal with doing half/half rather than the customers are at fault for complaining about something done correctly.


**I think we all agree never claim an allergen unless it's true and there's warnings all over about potential cross-contamination for a reason.

If you ask for toppings on half a pizza and don't mention an allergy we would certainly do that. Once you mentioned an allergy though we aren't putting that topping on half your pizza. To use another poster's example, if you tell me you want a veggie pizza with green peppers only on one half because you're allergic, then I would tell you that we can't do that with an allergy. If you just tell me you want a veggie pizza without the peppers on one half, we would do that. When we cut the pizzas, at least at Domino's and Papa John's, we use a circular pizza cutter, that can drag toppings from one side to the other.

I get the allergy concern but anyone with allergies I would hope would be smart enough NOT to order a half and half with an allergen on one half.
Half and half pizzas are pretty standard here.....assuming I am understanding your post correctly. https://www.pizzahut.com.au/pizza-meals/half-half-001

You're overestimating the common sense of many people.

 

[dez1978]

Ugh. I know someone like this and avoid them at all costs. Just unbearable to be around.

Agreed. And these people are why I will no longer work in customer service. I no longer have the patience or filter to deal with it. Honestly, I think people are a bigger problem than pay (or lack thereof) resulting in places being short staffed. I can deal with a lot of stuff for the right amount of money. Or I can love my job and get paid peanuts. But no one is willing to deal with horrible people and get paid peanuts. And honestly I feel like the pandemic brought out more of "those people" than there used to be. Of course there were always rude customers, but you didn't used to hear about fights at Disney every other day, or see videos of food service workers being assaulted over an order being incorrect. But that is totally off topic.
I do agree that tipping has gotten out of hand in some areas. Stuff like hair stylists etc, were always tipped, but now it's everywhere. And yes, some of it is just the way the credit card machine was set up, but it's become expected in many places it didn't used to be.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I used to work in the restaurant industry and you would not believe how many people were “allergic” to onions. Far and away, it was the most common customer allergy we encountered. Ten times more people were “allergic” to onions than all of the top 8 allergens combined. You’d think onions themselves might be on that top 8 list with how many people claimed allergies to them. (C’mon, just say you don’t like onions, don’t lie about having an allergy.)

I had a baffling refusal-to-modify-a-pizza experience at Pizzafari in Animal Kingdom several years ago. They sold veggie pizzas (regular cheese and vegetables) and they sold dairy-free plain cheese pizzas. I asked if I could get a veggie pizza but substitute dairy-free cheese. They said no. I said okay, can I have a dairy-free cheese pizza, add veggies? Again, they said no. Couldn’t do it. Impossible to put veggies and dairy-free cheese together on a pizza. And this is Disney no less, where they are usually very accommodating of modifications.

I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve asked to speak to a manager in my life and this was one of them. The situation seemed so absurd that I thought the employee must be wrong but nope, the manager backed them up and said they couldn’t put veggies on a dairy-free cheese pizza because of allergies and liability. “But I don’t have allergies. I never even implied that I have allergies. I’m ordering dairy-free cheese because I’m vegan.” Nope, wouldn’t do it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If you ask for toppings on half a pizza and don't mention an allergy we would certainly do that. Once you mentioned an allergy though we aren't putting that topping on half your pizza. To use another poster's example, if you tell me you want a veggie pizza with green peppers only on one half because you're allergic, then I would tell you that we can't do that with an allergy. If you just tell me you want a veggie pizza without the peppers on one half, we would do that. When we cut the pizzas, at least at Domino's and Papa John's, we use a circular pizza cutter, that can drag toppings from one side to the other.

When you're making the pizza do you clean the entire kitchen after each and every order? Do you prep pizzas in the same spot as the one before it? As the one after it? Do you cut like ingredients in the same spot such as veggies together? I assume as with most places it's more assembly line. All of these introduce cross-contaminations. If someone is allergic to peppers your knives, cutters, gloves, pans to cook the pizza, etc all of that can contain traces of it and should be of far greater concern to a business owner than half/half request, this is why warnings are there. At that point you're just thinking of the physical in your face presence of someone's allergen (real or not) with the ingredient added or not added rather than the backorder of the business.

If you want to refuse based out of verbal allergen okay but I have a feeling there are some other arbitrary things going on. If someone doesn't specify they are allergic to cheese and just requests no cheese on half, give them a warning some cheese by way of how you cut it may go on the side without it let them make the choice if this is okay (especially if for them personally it's a lactose issue). But by what you said you just flat out don't do it. I think some decisions may just be because they are more work on behalf of the staff, but that is merely my impression.

FWIW Papa John's has a very extensive allergen page on their website. If you're concerned about people and liability about allergens I hope you have this available to people in the store or while ordering. For example a common pizza ingredient that you've mentioned ,green peppers, are advised to be "May be stored in a facility that also stores other allergens." same as onions. A dairy allergen well Papa John's advises "Please note that all of our products may come into contact with wheat or dairy in our restaurants." (bolding is theirs).

Also FWIW I can order Dominos with half cheese/half no cheese. They just advise (bolding and font size is from the website):

Attention! You've selected to adjust cheese on a portion of your pizza. Although you can't see it on your virtual pizza now, we'll get it right.​

 

[Junior-Beto]

I used to work in the restaurant industry and you would not believe how many people were “allergic” to onions. Far and away, it was the most common customer allergy we encountered. Ten times more people were “allergic” to onions than all of the top 8 allergens combined. You’d think onions themselves might be on that top 8 list with how many people claimed allergies to them. (C’mon, just say you don’t like onions, don’t lie about having an allergy.)

I had a baffling refusal-to-modify-a-pizza experience at Pizzafari in Animal Kingdom several years ago. They sold veggie pizzas (regular cheese and vegetables) and they sold dairy-free plain cheese pizzas. I asked if I could get a veggie pizza but substitute dairy-free cheese. They said no. I said okay, can I have a dairy-free cheese pizza, add veggies? Again, they said no. Couldn’t do it. Impossible to put veggies and dairy-free cheese together on a pizza. And this is Disney no less, where they are usually very accommodating of modifications.

I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve asked to speak to a manager in my life and this was one of them. The situation seemed so absurd that I thought the employee must be wrong but nope, the manager backed them up and said they couldn’t put veggies on a dairy-free cheese pizza because of allergies and liability. “But I don’t have allergies. I never even implied that I have allergies. I’m ordering dairy-free cheese because I’m vegan.” Nope, wouldn’t do it.

I believe Pizzafari just gets preassembled pizzas that they heat up. I don't think they assemble them on site.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I believe Pizzafari just gets preassembled pizzas that they heat up. I don't think they assemble them on site.

That's actually what I was thinking. A few years back Old Chicago did this with their calzones IIRC?? It was either that or stromboli. In either case because of this you could no longer customize and take out ingredients as it came pre-made.

Disney may not want to admit that if that's the case but it would be better than giving an explanation that doesn't make sense.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

If it’s the policy, it’s the policy. @EACarlson could lose his job (or business) if he doesn’t follow it. Not sure he explained it that way, or maybe I’m wrong (unless he made up ”not wanting to take on that liability”). Maybe he’s the owner?

Sometimes being aggressive is the only way to deal with wild Karens.

Demanding things we can't do. In the pizza business it was usually either out of delivery area, half cheese, sending a kid in with a credit card to pay or asking for a topping on half the pizza claiming to be deathly allergic to it. If you then yell at my employees for telling you no on those things, I'll be telling you no to ordering anything.

Ask a server and most will tell you their managers will throw them under the bus in a heartbeat. If you can give facts and not just emotion it can go a long way to improving the server and the service. If I feel I need to speak with a manager I do it on my way out the door after my bill has been paid, this makes it clear I'm not looking for any monetary compensation, which is the exact opposite of what most Karens are looking for and most of who the manager deals with.

Can't do half the pizza with cheese and half without. Has to be all one or the other. If you tell me you have an allergy to a topping, I can't put that topping on only half the pizza, not taking that liability on.

There is no way to stop what cheese does on a pizza once it's in the oven or after it comes out. Also almost impossible to cut without dragging cheese onto the non-cheese side.

If you ask for toppings on half a pizza and don't mention an allergy we would certainly do that. Once you mentioned an allergy though we aren't putting that topping on half your pizza. To use another poster's example, if you tell me you want a veggie pizza with green peppers only on one half because you're allergic, then I would tell you that we can't do that with an allergy. If you just tell me you want a veggie pizza without the peppers on one half, we would do that. When we cut the pizzas, at least at Domino's and Papa John's, we use a circular pizza cutter, that can drag toppings from one side to the other.

You're overestimating the common sense of many people.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I believe Pizzafari just gets preassembled pizzas that they heat up. I don't think they assemble them on site.

I don’t know, the manager gave me a long-winded explanation about separate preparation areas and not being allowed to take ingredients from one kitchen to another due to cross-contamination concerns, to which I was thinking “you can take a dairy-free pizza into the regular kitchen to throw some vegetables on it without any concern for cross-contamination because I don’t have any allergies. It would’ve been much simpler and more sensible to just say they’re pre-made if that were the case.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If it’s the policy, it’s the policy. @EACarlson could lose his job (or business) if he doesn’t follow it. Not sure he explained it that way, or maybe I’m wrong (unless he made up ”not wanting to take on that liability”). Maybe he’s the owner?

No one suggested he not follow policy, we're saying some things don't make sense.

 

[projectx3]

I’ve been thinking about this lately and ran across this thread.

I’ve never understood the bad attitudes towards tipping. 20% for good service at a restaurant is the minimum for me. More if it’s excellent service. I always tip the Uber driver, housekeeping staff, shuttle drivers if they’re handling our bags.

But yes, it’s getting out of hand. A tip option at Subway? Yeah right. Now the local donut shop asks for a tip at checkout. For what? Putting pastries in a box? You’ve gotta be kidding me.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I’ve been thinking about this lately and ran across this thread.

I’ve never understood the bad attitudes towards tipping. 20% for good service at a restaurant is the minimum for me. More if it’s excellent service. I always tip the Uber driver, housekeeping staff, shuttle drivers if they’re handling our bags.

But yes, it’s getting out of hand. A tip option at Subway? Yeah right. Now the local donut shop asks for a tip at checkout. For what? Putting pastries in a box? You’ve gotta be kidding me.

I've been thinking that some of these tip jars (physical or digital) showing up unexpectedly seem more related to passing on wage costs to the consumer., by wage costs I mean the employees don't get paid more, just that the gap is somewhat made up by consumers directly. Service-based jobs seem to blur these days in just what employers consider. I'd like to go back to my retail days and say I should have gotten a ton of tips over the years (a joke but for reals would have been nice!)

 

[tvguy]

I believe Pizzafari just gets preassembled pizzas that they heat up. I don't think they assemble them on site.

That certainly is the case with many chain restaurants. Boudin's used to bake all their bread on site. Then just before the pandemic they shifted to a centralized bakery. It's delivered the same day it's baked, but in the case of my store, it's baked 70 miles away and trucked in. Used to be if they were running low on break for soup bread bowls, they would just bake more. Now, if they run out, they are out until the next day. And of course part of the draw was watching them knead the bread and bake it , and smelled it as it baked, in the store.

 

[barkley]

Other things would be when they request a steak medium but their idea of medium is medium well, not a true medium. The food was prepared as requested, but sometimes people don't request what they really want. Or they don't read the menu description fully and are then mad that there are onions in a dish that was described as having onions. It sounds silly I know, but it happens.

i'm guessing one of the biggest issues with steaks concerns the concept of 'rare' b/c when i ask for mine that way i inevitably get a full explanation from the server on what the establishment's definition of 'rare' is and asking me to confirm that is indeed what i want (yes, please just walk the cow past the broiler thank you very much)

 

[whiteness]

I work in the pharmaceutical industry. My coworkers and I passionately debate what actions we can take that will result in safer, more effective products. We don't get paid a bonus for caring. We don't have any tip jars that patients can put money in. We do it because it's the right thing and we honestly care.

Sometimes, we have to argue with management if we see something that's not right. We often make more work for ourselves because we want to make sure we get the right answers, no matter how long it takes. Again, there's no tip jars, and we don't paid extra for extra effort. If we work longer hours, so be it.

I'm not saying my job or profession is necessarily special or unique. It happens to be my profession, so I can speak from personal experience. And I know for a fact that there's a lot of "unsung heroes" out there that care passionately about their jobs, stick their necks out and work harder and longer than they strictly have to because they care about doing the right thing and helping people. I'm sure the people reading this can come up with so many examples.

And none of them expect or receive any tips for what they do. For doing their job or even for doing "more than" their job.

Again, let me be 100% clear: I get a fair salary and good benefits for doing my job. Everybody deserves that. Everybody. But it's my employer's responsibility to make sure that I get compensated fairly. Not the patients that take the drugs we work on, or the doctors that prescribe them, or FDA or any other third party that might benefit from or rely on the work we do. My employer pays me a fair wage. And that's how it should be for everybody.

This is a very unfair position to put waiters in. They are required to be at their place of employment for a portion of their lives, and devote that time to working in service of their employer. No table service restaurant can exist without them. They are essential workers. So, they deserve to receive a fair wage and benefits for their service from their employer, just I do, and everyone else I work with does. It is frankly shameful that the industry doesn't do that, and instead externalizes those costs to their customers.

Rather than debating how much to tip people for doing their job well, which I'm sure most of them aspire to do, we should be demanding their their employers start paying them properly for their work. Just like everybody else should be paid properly for their work, too.