Tipping in restaurants

[disneyfav4ever]

And if this is the case - I'm kinda like another poster's son, earlier in this thread. The $5 breakfast would end up with $5. So would the $20 steak. So, for me - it is the same, y'know?

I'm like the same way. The other night I went to Applebee's with friends for appetizers, we went late so they were really cheap. My bill was $5 and some change, I left $3 for a tip, I just couldn't leave anything less then that and feel okay with myself.

 

[Fundytrail]

Disney wages effective 10/04/09

Non-tipped Classification
Food/Beverage Steward Min. $7.70 Max.$12.57

Tipped Classification
Food & Beverage Service $4.10

See page 61 of the link below;
http://www.uniteherelocal362.org/2007 STCU Main Contract Addendums A B STCU 200 7.22.07.pdf

 

[bicker]

Gotta love making that minimum wage.

 

[mnrose]

Servers in San Francisco make at least minimum wage plus mandatory health insurance coverage depending on the restuarant size. I think servers in all of California get minimum wage but I could be wrong.

This could be true, but there is absolutely no way you could live on minimum wage in San Francisco. It is IMPOSSIBLE to rent anything (and I do mean anything...even in a bad neighborhood) for under $1000 a month. Just can't do it. So, 40 hours a week at minimum wage and you could barely, barely cover rent. Let alone food, utilities, etc.

Minimum wage in Minnesota might work for you (notice I said *might* because even here it would be hard to make ends meet on that much money), but in San Francisco? No way. I lived and worked there for 15 years so I know what I'm talking about on the cost of living.

My opinion...if you can't afford to leave a tip for good service, then you can't afford the restaurant.

 

[MIGrandma]

^^ That made me curious... so I googled too, and came across this from the US Department of Labor page:



Based on that statement, it seems to me that every server in the US MUST be making minimum wage, because if you don't get enough tips your employer must make up the difference... yes??

No. It wasn't that way where I worked, unfortunately.

We actually brought that up to the owner, but she said we "make up the difference" on good nights where we make more money.

January and February were the worst. If it was snowing, week nights could be deader than a doornail. You sometimes went home, after working 5-6 hours, with $15 in your pocket.

Most of the time, of course it was way better than that. Otherwise we wouldn't have stayed. But those bad nights, some were really bad and we did not make minimum wage even with our "hourly wage" and our tips.

 

[mjkacmom]

Yes, that is correct. And aside from that, there was also a page on the average server wage for each of the states, believe it or not, MOST of them we $9.25/hr to start, with a few (like Texas for example, being $7.50 I think it was).

I would love to see that page - according to what I googled, Texas' server minimum is $2.13. I do believe the majority of states have a much lower minimum for servers than non-tipped employees. I have never heard of a server being paid $9.25 an hour to start! Maybe some really high-end restaurants... Here in NJ, it's been $2.13 since 1991 ($7.25 for everyone else). Heck, the highest minimum wage is $8.25.

 

[dbriggsq]

First: That's probably not true. Servers can fill you in on the details, with regard to how much more picky the average customer is with regard to the particulars of a $20 steak meal versus for a $5 breakfast.

Second: Keep in mind that the way the world is not customized for each person. We live in community with others. Just because the basic premise for something doesn't necessarily fit for one of us, the fact that it fits for many others, and that having one way for things to work is essential to a reasonable level of societal consistency and efficiency, is far more than enough to support that one way.
Folks have provided explanations for why things are the way they are, in many threads, here and elsewhere in the past. Seeing those explanations practically never made someone who inherently didn't like the reality of how things are feel better about how things are; instead, typically, such folks generally reject the explanations, even though rejection of them is irrelevant.

Third: It all doesn't really matter. The way things are was determined long before most of us were born. This isn't some arbitrary and capricious decision a few people in a back room made a few years ago. It's the reflection of a hundred years or more of our culture establishing a society precedent.

So you are saying that because things are as they are they can never change. Thank goodness MLK didn't think that way or the suffragettes.

This is an interesting article on the tipping culture
http://randazza.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/against-tipping/

Servers in the UK receive at least minimum wage and I think that in every civilized society workers should receive the same. My aunt lives in New Zealand where tipping is very rare and only for very exceptional service and the levels of service there are apparently very good.

It seems to me that the practice of tipping is encouraged to maintain a servant/master relationship which excuses the patron being very demanding rather than a professional/client relationship where the server is answerable to their employer and is prepared to give a professional service to all their clients - not just to those they think will tip well.

I would never say how much I would tip a server - I'm completely embarassed by the whole subject - I hate the scenario where I have to decide how much someone's work is worth and press money into their hands to 'pay' them for it and the sooner someone can sort out a system which is fairer to all concerned the better.

 

[bicker]

So you are saying that because things are as they are they can never change.

No: What I'm saying is that things haven't changed, so in the context of how we engage restaurants and servers, things are the way they have been. If things do change, at some point, then we can change the way we engage restaurants and servers.

Thank goodness MLK didn't think that way

Martin Luther King, Jr. was arrested 30 times. He acknowledged that honorable change wasn't a matter of exploitation, but rather was a matter of suffering to make a point. Reverend King wasn't in the business of exclusively self-motivated opportunism.

or the suffragettes.

I'm sure you realize that I can readily come up with a set of info about suffragettes that parallel the datum I mentioned regarding Reverend King, i.e., how they suffered as a result of their honorable efforts to bring about change. If someone decides to make up their own rules for engaging restaurants and servers (which is the opposite of what I was saying) then what honorable suffering are they incurring for their cause?

For folks who don't like the current system for gratuities, why not avoid restaurants that engage in such a system, that compensate their servers based on the reasonable expectation that patrons will fulfill their obligations within the context of the system? That's a suitable objection. When the point is made, through that mechanism, perhaps things will change.

So in a nutshell, things are as they are. As long as they are the way they are they are the way they are. After they are no longer the way they are, then they won't be the way they are anymore.

It seems to me that the practice of tipping is ....

Right now, the support for doing away with the system is so incredibly small that it isn't time for anyone but the most fervent supporters or most fervent objectors of the system (of which I'm neither) to actually have substantive discussions of the relative merits. Given that, from my own standpoint, things are so far away from any reasonable expectation that this system is going to change that I have no need to discuss its relative merits.

 

[paintnolish]

I'm curious as to whether servers would support a flat 18% "service charge" added to all sit down meals without the potential for added tips.

On very rare occassions do we add the 18%. We do not simply add it for parties of 8 or more, like a lot of restaurants (this would be a blessing on homecoming or prom nights, though). We are to earn our tips, and we do. As I stated earlier, our tips are posted for all others to see weekly- rarely do I see anything below 18.5%.

 

[hbkfan637]

This could be true, but there is absolutely no way you could live on minimum wage in San Francisco. It is IMPOSSIBLE to rent anything (and I do mean anything...even in a bad neighborhood) for under $1000 a month. Just can't do it. So, 40 hours a week at minimum wage and you could barely, barely cover rent. Let alone food, utilities, etc.

Minimum wage in Minnesota might work for you (notice I said *might* because even here it would be hard to make ends meet on that much money), but in San Francisco? No way. I lived and worked there for 15 years so I know what I'm talking about on the cost of living.

My opinion...if you can't afford to leave a tip for good service, then you can't afford the restaurant.

I agree about the tipping. I'm born, raised, and still live here so I know its expensive. My cousin is a server and makes a good living (the tips help with that). He worked his way up and works in a nice restuarant down by the Wharf now. I'm not disagreeing with everyone or trying to get off topic, just trying to point out that not EVERY city in the USA only pays servers $2 something an hour. I understand that most do though.

 

[happygirl]

I'm curious as to whether servers would support a flat 18% "service charge" added to all sit down meals without the potential for added tips.

I would like this for the cheapskates out there who refuse to tip no matter wht you do for them.

I dunno how I would feel about good tippers most people leave well over 18 percent, It might make them not leave as good as tip.

 

[firefox2]

This could be true, but there is absolutely no way you could live on minimum wage in San Francisco. It is IMPOSSIBLE to rent anything (and I do mean anything...even in a bad neighborhood) for under $1000 a month. Just can't do it. So, 40 hours a week at minimum wage and you could barely, barely cover rent. Let alone food, utilities, etc.

Minimum wage in Minnesota might work for you (notice I said *might* because even here it would be hard to make ends meet on that much money), but in San Francisco? No way. I lived and worked there for 15 years so I know what I'm talking about on the cost of living.

My opinion...if you can't afford to leave a tip for good service, then you can't afford the restaurant.

No one can really afford to live in the city I am in for minimum wage either, average rent of a one bedroom apt. is also $1,000/month, we have the highest cost of living in Canada in BC, food prices here make most U.S. residents almost fall over from the shock, BUT, people do it. Our minimum wage is $8/hr. That minimum wage includes servers, retail workers, gas jockeys, etc. All walks of life get paid that, but only servers expect to be tipped

 

[firefox2]

I would love to see that page - according to what I googled, Texas' server minimum is $2.13. I do believe the majority of states have a much lower minimum for servers than non-tipped employees. I have never heard of a server being paid $9.25 an hour to start! Maybe some really high-end restaurants... Here in NJ, it's been $2.13 since 1991 ($7.25 for everyone else). Heck, the highest minimum wage is $8.25.

Here is the link:
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm

 

[mjkacmom]

Here is the link:
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm

But that is giving wage estimates - servers are taxed on the tips they are assumed to have received, so I believe the tips are averaged in those estimates. I only looked at Alabama and Alaska, and the yearly wage estimate ranged from $15,000 - $20,000 a year. I can't imagine anyone living on that!

Edited to add, I check NJ's, since I know for a fact that $2.13 is the minimum, and the average is over $10 an hour (or $22,000 a year, which will cause you to be homeless here!).

 

[paintnolish]

Here is the link:
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm

Yeah, here in IL my base is $4.20. On a Monday lunch, I have walked out with as little at $13 in my pocket at the end of a shift. That is not anywhere near minimum wage. Sure, I have made lovely wads o'cash on occassion (Valentine's Day), but those days are not the norm and believe me, I work my butt off on those types of days. Vday was running straight from 2-12 midnight.
Anyway, I can't complain. I love my job, coworkers and vast majority of guests (friendly and generous tippers). However, I do feel for those servers who serve to support families. Mine is a side job, spending money, until I graduate next fall (although I wouldn't mind hanging on for a weekend shift here and there).

 

[declansdad]

I would like this for the cheapskates out there who refuse to tip no matter wht you do for them.

I dunno how I would feel about good tippers most people leave well over 18 percent, It might make them not leave as good as tip.

So you want a minimum of 18% regardless of what you do for them???

 

[happygirl]

So you want a minimum of 18% regardless of what you do for them???

Yes, Servers work there butt off for customers, I don't think it's right for them to stiff you

 

[smidgy]

Agreed.

I have read somewhere - about how the person (wherever I read it) starts the server's tip at 20%.

As the meal goes on, and they have to ask for a drink refill perhaps - they then would deduct that amount from the tip. Extra ranch? Deduct. And on and on. The writer seemed to be big on mind reading, apparently. It's the only conclusion I could come to.

An empty glass is one thing, a half full glass that they know they're going to suck down, and need one - is another.

Anyways - my whole point of that, was this: I can't even imagine going out to dinner and calculating the tip game all night, like this person mentioned. I kick back, and enjoy my dinner. If I have to ask for a refill, I have to ask for a refill. It's okay.

that was me, and I obviously didn't explain well what I meant. (I am the waitress who posts here a lot, advocating tippping 20%, tpping more on holidays, etc.)

I didn't mean I calculate the tip downward throughout the meal, mentally checking on every refll, etc.(I guess I shouldn't have said "down from there")
what I meant was the opposite instead of starting low and the tip going up as the meal goes on, making "sure" the waitress earned her tip, I automatially tip 20% (start with). then it goes down only if the service was really bad (and then only to 15%.)(ad by bad, I don't mean if I have to ask for sour cream, refilll, etc. as a waitress, I know we are not mindreaders) no I don't think about it through the whole meal, like a "checklist." my point was starting at20%,I should have aid 20%automatically, and it drops only if service is really poor.






QUOTE=Fundytrail;34431966].

We base our tips on service & food quality. On average 15% to 20% and it is very rare that we would not tip. On our last trip to DW the max. we left was $20.00 on a $70.00 meal on the other end of the spectrum we did not leave any tip at one sit down meal, 35 minutes to be seated, 12 minutes before anyone came to the table and 15 minutes after we finished our meal I had to chase someone down to get our bill and when we did get it we were overcharged.

Both my wife and myself have worked in the food industry in the past, and the reality is, those servers that look after their customers will make more $ than those that do a poor job on something that is based on voluntary extra payment.[/QUOTE]





how is the time it took to be seated the server's fault? it has NOTHING to do with theserver... at all! and a half hour wiat for a table at disneisnothing. (just like 12 minutes for the server t come over. 15 minutes to get the bill only?at disney? don't you want your food to settle?

 

[dbriggsq]

No: What I'm saying is that things haven't changed, so in the context of how we engage restaurants and servers, things are the way they have been. If things do change, at some point, then we can change the way we engage restaurants and servers.


For folks who don't like the current system for gratuities, why not avoid restaurants that engage in such a system, that compensate their servers based on the reasonable expectation that patrons will fulfill their obligations within the context of the system? That's a suitable objection. When the point is made, through that mechanism, perhaps things will change.

So in a nutshell, things are as they are. As long as they are the way they are they are the way they are. After they are no longer the way they are, then they won't be the way they are anymore.

Right now, the support for doing away with the system is so incredibly small that it isn't time for anyone but the most fervent supporters or most fervent objectors of the system (of which I'm neither) to actually have substantive discussions of the relative merits. Given that, from my own standpoint, things are so far away from any reasonable expectation that this system is going to change that I have no need to discuss its relative merits.

That doesn't mean we can't have a constructive discussion on the pro's and con's of the current system does it?

I'd like to see a poll on the support for keeping the status quo - I wonder whether some people would secretly like it to change but are too frightened to say so on a forum like this for fear of being branded 'cheap'

I'm interested in how some other countries manage to keep high levels of customer service when tipping is a very rare occurence or only at small percentages.

In the UK last year there was a minor outcry when it was discovered that a couple of restaurant chains were paying servers less than the minimum wage with the expectation that the wage would be brought up the minimum standard by tips. Consumer groups and unions lobbied the government and the practice was outlawed. Doesn't paying employees less than minimum wage send out the wrong message both to them and to their customers.

DH and I were in the States for a couple of weeks this month and both of us remarked on separate occasions how some (not all!) people in restaurants seem to treat servers quite badly - barely even acknowledging them to say thank you and being quite demanding and we discussed whether this was because the patron was given too much power by the tipping culture - just our ponderings.

On the other side of the coin - when we do eat out we like to be served in a professional and timely manner but don't like being interrupted every 5 minutes by an 'enthusiastic' server asking if everything is alright. And at the end of the meal it would be great to just be given a bill with a complete amount to pay - i.e. service charge included (either a % or per head)(although again why a only a 'service charge' and not a 'cooking charge', 'cleaning charge'??) and not have to get out the mental calculator (especially after a couple of glasses of wine) and then wonder (as I have done quite a few times) for the rest of the evening whether it was too much/too little/if I've offended someone or made a mistake in my calculations.

 

[paintnolish]

Smidgy- I am glad you explained yourself. basically, you go in assuming to tip 20% but seem to dedcut for reasonable "offenses," like being inattentive. Okay. The one issue I do have is with food quality. Servers don't cook your food, so I don't see how it is their fault. Also, if you are talking about specifications 1. Everyone makes mistakes 2. Even if your server gets it right, sometimes the kitchen still gets it wrong (even after you go explain and double check!).