Tipping in restaurants

[CathrynRose]

Oh - and I think it's sad this is how one poster spent her holiday weekend, as well as much of her life if her name is Google'd.

Lighten up. This much anger is not good for you.

 

[kaytieeldr]

TOGO: 7.00 per hour + their own tips(not tipped out by servers)”

So GEE, SOME of these TO-GO servers get paid MORE than MINIMUM WAGE.

Sigh... those are dedicated to-go servers, whose SPECIFIC JOB it is to take, place, check, assemble, accessorize, deliver*, and transact the to-go order.

*Yes, deliver. No table service restaurant will let the customer go to the kitchen to pick up their own food.

By the way, unless your friend works in Kansas, Georgia, Wyoming, Minnesota, or Arkansas - those to-go servers are being paid less than minimum wage.

 

[kaytieeldr]

In one hour, you serve other customers, not just one. Tell me what does minutes per customer have to do with tipping?

Minutes per customer? Not at all. Read it again. It's customers per hour. One cashier waits on twice as many FAST FOOD customers as the other cashier, therefore the first cashier does twice as much work - yet they both get paid the same amount. You apparently don't care about that, as long as additional money isn't expected out of your pocket. You only care about who - by your perception - does more work when the matter of tipping comes up.

WHY? That's not going to help why, they just can't.

Well, first, it might. Every change has to start somewhere. But asking the manager the reason behind the no-tipping policy will educate YOU. You're just not 'getting it' on this forum. You need to get information from management in the restaurant industry.

Cashier C let's say she takes 2 minutes per customer. The customer is the person tipping on the ONE order they ordered, NOT considering others in this to care about how many she does in an hour's time.

No. There IS no tipping, remember? This is a fast food restaurant. Truly - because there is no table service restaurant that (a) has a bank of manned cash registers and (b) a steady flow/line of customers at each register.

Cashier A didn't necessarily do more work. Think about it, some tasks are more harder than others to do. For example, mopping is harder than sweeping is in general, because it takes MORE EFFORT to fill that bucket of water and soap. You can take the same amount of minutes, but can work HARDER than the sweeper can.

Oh, so now it doesn't just matter how MUCH work the person does, but how hard the work is (different from how hard the person works, which is different from how much the person works, which is different still from how much work the person does)???

 

[Springs1]

Mistakes happen. We're human. Where the tip should or should not be effected, is how your server handles and rectifies your issue.

Sometimes, the food is so obvious it's wrong, it's most of the not a mistake, it's lot more times than not a lack of EFFORT to have compared the written order to the food or the other server/food runner not comparing the ticket to the order assuming the ticket was correct that is.

The tip should reflect on how the mistakes were handled, I do agree, but it should reflect the mistake itself so you won't reward a server for bringing you the completely wrong food so it keeps happening again with a good tip. In order words, once a waiter admitted her forgot to put me and my husband's appetizer into the computer. He profusely apologized and offered us chips n' salsa(which was an item on the menu, not free), which we told him we'd rather have something off the bill than more food. He got from his manager to comp $5 off the check. His tip was 16% BEFORE the discount. The mistake itself we still took off for so he will LEARN his lesson instead of hugging a woman we saw, he should concentrate on his work instead. He had time to play, so he forgot something, because of that. If we would have tipped him 20% plus, he wouldn't have learned anything and continued to punish customers with his lack of 100% EFFORT that he should put into his JOB, NOT HUGGING PEOPLE(playing around). He received that due to the way he HANDLED the mistake. If he would have handled it like he could have cared less, we would have done the same in the tip by not tipping at all, but he showed he really cared big time, so he received a bigger tip almost as if that didn't happen.

So I don't agree that we should not take off for a mistake if it is YOUR mistake. If it is the kitchen staff's mistake that isn't obvious when you bring it out that you'd have to TOUCH my food to notice it, then I wouldn't and NEVER take off for that. I am talking about if it's YOUR mistake whether you admit fault as the waiter did or if it's an obvious mistake being brought to the table such as wrong food.

While we are all human, mistakes matter in ANY LINE of work. You don't get that bigger christmas bonus or get your hours reduced if you aren't a good worker. You don't get a promotion or even get demoted. You may not get that raise you were up for or as big of one. My point is mistakes count as far as pay goes in ANY LINE of work you do, so serving is really no different.

While you may not get hit as often as a server in the pocketbook, overtime, you may end up losing your job, because of too many mistakes or get demoted. An agent at the insurance company I work at a couple of years ago when she worked there that was, she got DEMOTED, which we heard because of too many mistakes she made. Just think about that when we take off the tip some. Shouldn't we have that right to pay you for the amount of EFFORT you put in? Maybe you did check over every single thing and just missed something, but we see it as you should have checked it an extra time, SLOWER to not make us have an obvious mistake at our table.

Not to mention of your food is run for you. Not only X-Ray Vision Super Powers - but Spidey senses, as well - when that food is run out, and we're at another table.

The things that can be controlled by the server that took your order are things such as sides or bottles of condiments can be offered to be brought out ahead of time. Let's say another server runs our appetizer and you took my order knowing I added a side of ranch to it. That other server runs the food without of course reading the ticket, because it's not their tip on the line to care and they are just lazy as well, let's say. It's my server's fault though I received that mistake even though YOU didn't bring us the appetizer without the ranch, because you COULD HAVE(just as I have had servers do before sometimes voluntarily, sometimes if I have asked) offered to have brought that ranch out BEFORE that appetizer came out PREVENTING the mistake, which is your job to prevent an obvious mistake like that whether you run our food or not to us. We are paying YOU, NOT that other server to care if it's right or wrong. You make your own tip when it comes to condiments. Especially ones that are supposed to come with an item already listed on the menu whether you run the food or not. You have the power to control that mistake for EVER happening. You don't have to rely on someone that isn't going to get tipped from us. That's your decision to do so.

Also, we have had a time where my husband received the wrong entrée(he ordered a burger, received ribs from another waitress at Applebee's). Turns out OUR WAITRESS PUT IN THE ORDER WRONG, which she admitted so. So how was that the other server's fault that ran the food? It wasn't.

My point is, not all food mistakes are the other server's fault or food runner's fault if the original server that took the order ends up not bringing out the food.

 

[Springs1]

Minutes per customer? Not at all. Read it again. It's customers per hour.

You read your post again:

Cashier A can process one customer every minute.

Cashier C needs two minutes per customer.

Cashier B takes 90 seconds per customer.

- A minute and a half worth that is equal to.

One cashier waits on twice as many FAST FOOD customers as the other cashier, therefore the first cashier does twice as much work - yet they both get paid the same amount.

WHO says the first cashier did MORE WORK? NO ONE DID, NOT EVEN YOU!!

So, NO, the first cashier may not have done "TWICE AS MUCH WORK."

Let's say for YOUR arguments sake hypothetically, they did, they may get paid the same, but that's the EMPLOYER'S FAULT since this is fast food cashier and we cannot tip them to make it fair.

You apparently don't care about that, as long as additional money isn't expected out of your pocket.

That is fast food counter service as you said, so no money would be out my pocket for those 2 situations.

You only care about who - by your perception - does more work when the matter of tipping comes up.

It's not a "PERCEPTION" it's a FACT OF WHO DOES MORE WORK.

If I order 10 big mac combos at McDonald's giving the cashier no tip for all of that work, then WHY would I give a tip for even 2 pasta entrées even, even 10 of them? The to-go server or bartender still had LESS WORK than that McDonald's cashier did for those 10 big mac combos for me asking for extra special sauce in each cup with 10 drinks she had to fix at let's say a mall that has no self-serve soft drink machines.

It's a FACT that cashier had MORE WORK at McDonald's, but we can't tip her, WHY that person at Applebee's for doing LESS WORK, LESS WORK, IT IS A *(*********FACT************) IT IS LESS WORK?

No. There IS no tipping, remember? This is a fast food restaurant.

Let's say we are talking about non-fast food restaurants, that's what I was talking about in my other post, NOT about the fast food worker. So you just did me what I did to you above in the post about telling you that you are talking about fast food workers saying as long as it's not additional money out of my pocket, see how it feels?

Oh, so now it doesn't just matter how MUCH work the person does, but how hard the work is (different from how hard the person works, which is different from how much the person works, which is different still from how much work the person does)???

It ALL matters and matters even more HOW HARD the person works.

 

[Springs1]

Minutes per customer? Not at all. Read it again. It's customers per hour.

Just because you serve more customers doesn't have ANYTHING at all to do with the AMOUNT OF WORK PER ORDER.

As I stated before, if I have to fill 7 cups with special sauce for big macs vs. putting 7 sandwiches in a bag w/fries, which tasks has more work? Let's say it takes the same amount of time to the second, I took more EFFORT and WORK into putting the mac sauce in the cups honestly. It was more work and harder to do.

If I had ordered 10 appetizers from Applebee's and 10 combos from McDonald's, the cashier at McDonald's still works harder. She has to get 10 cups with ice and drink(let's say it's at a non-self serve soft drink McDonald's) that weren't ordered at Applebee's and honestly normally aren't ordered at non-fast food restaurants when most people get take-out. It's usually food more than drinks that are ordered when take-out orders are given and you know that is the truth. She has to get 10 cups with mac sauce for me with the squirt gun as I have seen CASHIERS do for me.

There is more work and harder work involved in the McDonald's orders than the 10 appetizer orders at Applebee's. We can't tip them, so why is it FAIR to tip someone that does less just because it's "CUSTOMARY?" That McDonald's cashier deserves a tip too if you feel that Applebee's to-go server/bartender deserves a tip. Since we both can't tip them, it's only fair not to tip at all for either situation, especially one that has less work being done of all things.

If anything, if we could tip in both situations(not just non-fast food restaurants), the McDonald's cashier should receive a much larger tip as long as the orders were correct, because she did MUCH MORE WORK than the Applebee's bartender/to-server assuming the orders were all correct and neither orders took a long time. It wouldn't be fair if we would be able to tip both that they'd get the same pay. It just wouldn't be fair while one employee busts butt and the other takes it much easier for the same pay from the customer.

Just as you said:

If I had more responsibility, more duties, sure.

So why not practice what you preach, the MORE WORK, the MORE MONEY, the LESS WORK, NO MONEY? You EXPECT MORE PAY FOR MORE MONEY, so do these fast food workers, but cannot be tipped, so if we can't tip them, it's only fair not to tip the others that do the same or less work they do. You know what I am saying is the truth.

The McDonald's cashier has "MORE RESPONSIBILITIES" than that Applebee's bartender/to-go server serving me the food they serve A LOT of the times and sometimes it's the "SAME AMOUNT OF RESPONSIBILITIES", so what's your point with wanting MORE MONEY for MORE WORK(responsiblitities)?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Oh - and I think it's sad this is how one poster spent her holiday weekend, as well as much of her life if her name is Google'd.

Lighten up. This much anger is not good for you.

Oh, wow. That's not just this weekend, it goes back at least a couple of years (I only looked as far as the top of page two).

 

[MIGrandma]

Oh, wow. That's not just this weekend, it goes back at least a couple of years (I only looked as far as the top of page two).

And she feels she's the only RIGHT one, and the rest of us are WRONG. No amount of discussing or argueing will make her change her mind. Once people stop responding to her posts, she will leave.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The mistake itself we still took off for so he will LEARN his lesson instead

Learn his lesson? Learn his LESSON? It's not your (the diner's) responsibility to 'teach a server a lesson'. That's what management is for - and you know with 100% certainty that his manager was aware of this omission.

If I order 10 big mac combos at McDonald's giving the cashier no tip for all of that work, then WHY would I give a tip for even 2 pasta entrées even, even 10 of them?

You? You wouldn't. We're all pretty clear on that concept.

Instead of refusing to tip at for restaurant take-out, work to change the policy for tipping fast food servers.

It's a FACT that cashier had MORE WORK at McDonald's, but we can't tip her, WHY that person at Applebee's for doing LESS WORK, LESS WORK, IT IS A *(*********FACT************) IT IS LESS WORK?

That server is getting paid less than one third what the cashier in McDonald's gets. But, again, we're all WELL aware you don't care about that, as long as you don't have to tip the restaurant server.

Just because you serve more customers doesn't have ANYTHING at all to do with the AMOUNT OF WORK PER ORDER.

Fine. Forget the restaurant. Let's try the beer counter at a ballpark. Two combination pourers/servers/cashiers, cash only. Legal limit of one drink per person, one size only.

One takes 30 seconds per transaction, the other takes 45. They're doing the SAME JOB (your original 'argument'), but one processes more customers per hour. Yet they both get the same pay, even though one has obviously done more work than the other.

---

You seem to have an inordinate amount of rage and resentment toward restaurant servers. You feel take-out orders aren't worthy of a tip. Fine. Again, don't tip - but DON'T try to justify yourself by claiming less work is done to process and complete your order.

 

[Springs1]

Learn his lesson? Learn his LESSON? It's not your (the diner's) responsibility to 'teach a server a lesson'. That's what management is for - and you know with 100% certainty that his manager was aware of this omission.

If I don't want it to happen again it sure is. Think about positive and negative reinforcement.

http://allpsych.com/psychology101/reinforcement.html

"Think of negative reinforcement as taking something negative away in order to increase a response. Imagine a teenager who is nagged by his mother to take out the garbage week after week. After complaining to his friends about the nagging, he finally one day performs the task and to his amazement, the nagging stops. The elimination of this negative stimulus is reinforcing and will likely increase the chances that he will take out the garbage next week."


"The punishment is not liked and therefore to avoid it, he or she will stop behaving in that manner."

See, you can control behavior with the tip by not tipping as much for bad service and tipping well for good service.

It sure is our responsiblity to teach him a lesson if we are the people that don't want to go through the bad service again like that and would rather have no problems instead.

If I give you $20 to do nothing for an hour put watch your favorite show or take the $20 to work hard during a busy time doing cashier work at McDonald's, which would you choose? Which would most people choose?

They'd choose to take it easy and not work hard for their $20. If you want good service, you need to tip that way to TEACH THEM they can't do poorly and still get an excellent tip as if they would have done an excellent job, because they didn't.

Instead of refusing to tip at for restaurant take-out, work to change the policy for tipping fast food servers.

How, I am just one customer and WHY would anyone want to do that? WHY not tip either and all customers keep their money as it should be. It's fine like it is, WHY change it?

That server is getting paid less than one third what the cashier in McDonald's gets.

As I said before, NOT all are. Secondly, it doesn't matter if one person gets one dollar per hour and the other gets 50 cents per hour(just a hypothetical amount to make my point), that's all the EMPLOYER being unfair, NOT the customer. Customers should be FAIR. Don't you want people to be fair to YOU? Then be fair to them, otherwise, don't be mad when people aren't paying you fair, because you have NO RIGHT, because you aren't fair to others.

Let's say the McDonald's cashier was getting paid $2.13/hr and let's say the to-go server/bartender was getting paid the higher amount $7/hr, the McDonald's cashier still does more work or the same amount of work, but doesn't receive a tip. Would that be fair?

Let's say they get the same pay(the McDonald's cashier and the to-go server/bartender) $10/hr, would you still tip the to-go server/bartender for a to-go order that you picked up inside even though you knew that the McDonald's cashier did more work?

WHY don't you realize the amount they get paid per hour is IRRELEVANT to the amount of work they provided you?

Let's try the beer counter at a ballpark. Two combination pourers/servers/cashiers, cash only. Legal limit of one drink per person, one size only.

One takes 30 seconds per transaction, the other takes 45. They're doing the SAME JOB (your original 'argument'), but one processes more customers per hour. Yet they both get the same pay, even though one has obviously done more work than the other.

I have already answered that type of analogy with my hypothical analogy. If we aren't tipping fast food cashiers to do this, it's only fair to do the same ANY OTHER PLACE IN THIS WORLD, REGARDLESS of pay per hour from their employer. What if you found out they were getting $8/hr, would you still tip them? It shouldn't matter if they got $20/hr, because if it's the same or less work, the worker should get the SAME PAY from the customer. It's ONLY FAIR TO DO THINGS THAT WAY(assuming the service was good of course).

You feel take-out orders aren't worthy of a tip.

WHY? They aren't doing ANY MORE WORK for me than a typical fast food cashier does for counter service. You still haven't named anything and you still didn't answer my question about would you expect more than 20% for you to do more work for a customer that eats inside than one that just orders things as is(assuming they had good service)?

WHY do you feel they are worthy of a tip? What TASKS are they doing MORE than a typical fast food worker does for counter service? You can't name anything, because there isn't anything.

You also never talked about that "assigned work" can be the same or less or more work. "Assigned work" does not show what the workload is.

but DON'T try to justify yourself by claiming less work is done to process and complete your order.

Then tell me things they do more if you are so smart?

I told you EXACT EXAMPLES of orders that take MORE TIME, EFFORT, AND WORK at McDonald's. You cannot obviously come up with any, huh? Then you know I am right then. It is LESS WORK MOST of the time that to-go servers/bartenders do to prepare a to-go order than a fast food cashier does for counter service.

 

[FireDancer]

Gratuities are not optional in our society -- they're discretionary. There is a difference.

And if at your discretion you leave no tip that would make it optional, unless there is legislation mandating it of course.

I don't see why everyone gets so bent out of shape at how anyone else tips. We can all tip how we want using the criteria we want. No one has the right to tell anyone that they over tip or under tip.

 

[mjkacmom]

Let's say the McDonald's cashier was getting paid $2.13/hr and let's say the to-go server/bartender was getting paid the higher amount $7/hr, the McDonald's cashier still does more work or the same amount of work, but doesn't receive a tip. Would that be fair?.

It would be illegal to pay the McDonald's cashier $2.13 an hour (I'm guessing you already know this - I assume this is your career). It is common to pay the to-go/bartender $2.13, because these are tipped positions, and in the United States of America, this is how it's always been, in many if not most places. FYI, I rarely get an order from McDonalds that's right, and I remind my children why they will go to college, and not end up in that job.

 

[lillygator]

Oh - and I think it's sad this is how one poster spent her holiday weekend, as well as much of her life if her name is Google'd.

Lighten up. This much anger is not good for you.

And she feels she's the only RIGHT one, and the rest of us are WRONG. No amount of discussing or argueing will make her change her mind. Once people stop responding to her posts, she will leave.

I'm lost!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

And she feels she's the only RIGHT one, and the rest of us are WRONG. No amount of discussing or argueing will make her change her mind. Once people stop responding to her posts, she will leave.

I couldn't even read the posts---wayyyy toooo loooonnnnngggg...and I thought I was bad.

My whole belief that I have had since my first job at 17 as a cashier....it isn't rocket science. While it isn't a living wage, it really isn't difficult to process a customer with whatever that involves. It isn't inherently a service position--and in those positions where it is a "service/experience" position, you will find that the employee either makes more at base OR they get bonuses or tips or what not.

I know that some people focus on the TIP acronym "To insure prompt service"--but the whole point of dining out is for an experience as well as to fill your belly. The "prompt" part comes (IMHO) in being attentive to your customer and anticipating their needs. And when you can't anticipate, you can ask "How's everything?" or equivilant.

The reason I choose a sit down versus--McD's is b/c I want to be served. Now FYI--there is a sit down McD's somewhere in this country that is more of a diner with the traditional menu as well as an expanded menu like a Shoney's--I would tip if I ever went to that establishment b/c it is a sit down restaurant. (saw this on some travel show that was featuring really cool McD's across the country.)

But McD's and company--isn't the same situation and it just cannot be compared.

Comparing apples and oranges fails to prove any point other than to show how weak of an argument it is to defend not tipping in a customary situation by comparing it to a very non-customary tipping situation.

It's just a different business model entirely.

The $2.13 an hour plus tips is a Federally mandated wage for tipped employees. Any Restaurant (sit down, counter, or otherwise) could adopt that model if their business format permitted it. McD's format does not, end of story.

(And BK does it your way right away, Wendy's can modify orders as well--McDonald's cannot ever handle the pressure and they just get royally confused when you change their "two-all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.")

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

And if at your discretion you leave no tip that would make it optional, unless there is legislation mandating it of course.

I don't see why everyone gets so bent out of shape at how anyone else tips. We can all tip how we want using the criteria we want. No one has the right to tell anyone that they over tip or under tip.

I kind of get what bicker is saying. Discretionary allows for a sliding scale that I feel customers have the right to dictate based on the level of service they receive.

It really is not an "option" in our culture, but there is room to modify the tip as you see fit even if that includes leaving nothing if you feel it was not warranted.

It's just semantics, really.

 

[CathrynRose]

I'm lost!

I guess she is/was an avid anti-server blogger/poster for many, many years. It would kinda make sense why all of a sudden she showed up, to argue her anti-tipping view point, here.

Has she ever been to Disney? Who knows.

I'll never sit here, and defend bad service or a server who is blatantly doing a crappy job - but I've been a server, and it's a tough job. We deal with a lot of mean, nasty, weird people. **AHEM...clearing throat**

And yes - those same weird people come into McD's or retail places, as well. But we work for tips. The retail person will still get their check. The call center person will still get their check. The McD's worker will still get their check.

By not tipping your server, because you have a warped sense of what they should or should not be doing (not to mention the psychic abilities some people expect) you're not giving them their check, and you might even be taking money from them.

If you can do that, in good conscious - go for it. I, personally, can not.

And if you don't like tipping - and think the whole system should be changed, that's your prerogative too. Write to your congressman, and go through the drive-thru, until that changes, though. Don't take it out on the person trying to do a good job for you, while all along you don't intend to give them a dime.

 

[sdemore]

I guess she is/was an avid anti-server blogger/poster for many, many years. It would kinda make sense why all of a sudden she showed up, to argue her anti-tipping view point, here.

Has she ever been to Disney? Who knows.

I'll never sit here, and defend bad service or a server who is blatantly doing a crappy job - but I've been a server, and it's a tough job. We deal with a lot of mean, nasty, weird people. **AHEM...clearing throat**

And yes - those same weird people come into McD's or retail places, as well. But we work for tips. The retail person will still get their check. The call center person will still get their check. The McD's worker will still get their check.

By not tipping your server, because you have a warped sense of what they should or should not be doing (not to mention the psychic abilities some people expect) you're not giving them their check, and you might even be taking money from them.

If you can do that, in good conscious - go for it. I, personally, can not.

And if you don't like tipping - and think the whole system should be changed, that's your prerogative too. Write to your congressman, and go through the drive-thru, until that changes, though. Don't take it out on the person trying to do a good job for you, while all along you don't intend to give them a dime.

AMEN If you don't want to tip that is fine, but don't take their service!

 

[happygirl]

I guess she is/was an avid anti-server blogger/poster for many, many years. It would kinda make sense why all of a sudden she showed up, to argue her anti-tipping view point, here.

Has she ever been to Disney? Who knows.

I'll never sit here, and defend bad service or a server who is blatantly doing a crappy job - but I've been a server, and it's a tough job. We deal with a lot of mean, nasty, weird people. **AHEM...clearing throat**

And yes - those same weird people come into McD's or retail places, as well. But we work for tips. The retail person will still get their check. The call center person will still get their check. The McD's worker will still get their check.

By not tipping your server, because you have a warped sense of what they should or should not be doing (not to mention the psychic abilities some people expect) you're not giving them their check, and you might even be taking money from them.

If you can do that, in good conscious - go for it. I, personally, can not.

And if you don't like tipping - and think the whole system should be changed, that's your prerogative too. Write to your congressman, and go through the drive-thru, until that changes, though. Don't take it out on the person trying to do a good job for you, while all along you don't intend to give them a dime.

Well said!!!

 

[FireDancer]

I kind of get what bicker is saying. Discretionary allows for a sliding scale that I feel customers have the right to dictate based on the level of service they receive.

It really is not an "option" in our culture, but there is room to modify the tip as you see fit even if that includes leaving nothing if you feel it was not warranted.

It's just semantics, really.

I agree, I don't go from all to nothing over salad dressing. It takes a lot for me to leave no tip, more than a messed up entrée. That might effect it but it won't make me leave nothing. Pretty much other than a disaster or being treated rudely I won't leave no tip other than for takeout. I'm not getting into the sparing match over that one though, as humerus as it is. It's just my choice.

I still stick by let people do what they want. I don't like nannying people and telling them how they should or shouldn't tip seems like nannying other adults to me.

 

[dbriggsq]

Hmmm - if no-one had discussed the recent issue in the UK the law would not have been changed.

Yes the cost of a meal would remain more or less the same - but there would be a much greater degree of certainty both for the server and the customer.

I can't understand why paying someone less than the minimum wage and relying on customers to make that up to a 'living wage' is better than paying someone a decent wage as a way of keeping them out of poverty.[/QU



well, this is NOT the UK! this is the United States of America. I am happy you choose to spend your tourism dollars here. you know the old adage... when in Rome, do as the Romans...





[/QUOTE

Yes I do know the old adage - and I have been to Rome - the service there is always very good, always prompt, very professional and never obsequious - and generally tips are not expected - there is normally a service charge 'servizio incluso' usually 10%- and you will often find that you receive complementary liqueurs and little extras that more than make up that amount. However I would not go to Rome and do as the Romans do - drive at brakeneck speed on a scooter, spit in the street and pinch young ladies rear-ends as is the custom in Rome. Just because something is a 'custom' in an area/country doesn't necessarily mean that it is a good thing.



however... even in this economy, theNORM is to TIp your server. 15% minimum. and to be expected as part of your bill.
unless there are mitigating circumstances, sorry, than you will be considered cheap

Yes we do tip the requisite amount in the US - at a Disney buffet our party of 7 (2 adults and our 5 children) are subject to an 'automatic 18% gratuity' (although how they can say this is a gratuity is beyond me) which amounts to around $40 (I would have to work for at least 2 hours to earn enough to pay the 'gratuity'). We were there for probably around an hour - we didn't have our drinks refilled and the server just took away our dirty plates, which we had already piled up - perhaps spending less than 10 minutes at our table. Was this worth $40 - I don't think so - would we ask for the 'tip' to be reduced - no because it wouldn't be worth making a fuss - amd I wonder how many people feel the same.

My point is that I feel the 'tipping' culture is inappropriate in a modern, civilized society - all employees should be payed at least minimum wage - in the UK when it was discovered that a chain of restaurants were paying less than minimum wage with the expectation that tips would make this up there was an outcry from consumer groups and unions and the law was changed.

The uncertainty that 'tipping' creates is evidenced in the previous postings - we should be trying to make life easier for both customers and employees not making it more complicated.