Tiered FP+ for DHS

[clsteve]

No, you don't have to enjoy it, that's your opinion. But instead of sitting there and complaining over and over about it, how about just enjoy your trip instead of stressing out over things you cant change? Im just saying people should try to enjoy life instead of complaining about everything. If you did die tomorrow, would you really want your last day to be about stressing out over a stupid Disney policy? Seems like a waste.

Should I now go eat my spinach, too...?

 

[tsabs22]

Alright, I'm going to try this ONE more time. Just because I post my concerns about what is happening does NOT mean that I will not enjoy my trip. You better believe I'll enjoy the trip, Hey! Christmas at DW! C'mon, are people really so intolerant that seeing posts about Disney trip concerns on a Disney forum will prompt them to flame? Really? I've seen some really negative posts on here, MAINLY, about people who are a little anxious about an upcoming trip or who have cancelled their trip due to anxiety.

If you do not like to hear any anxiety, or if you feel reading a concerned post will influence your stay or the way you think about Disney, IN ANY WAY, then just skip the friggin post! If it doesn't apply to YOU, then don't bother! Don't bother coming here to tell us NOT to post our concerns, NOT to denigrate Disney in anyway, NOT to be anything less than "happy, happy, joy, joy".

Because you know? The poster who just came back and is less than stellarly thrilled with the experience might post something that YOU can learn from. I know I have.

And I completely agree with your post. Im not against people discussing. And Im not even against people talking about bad experiences with trips. Believe me I have been there, done that. What I just don't understand is that I have seen wayyyyy too many posts about how peoples trips are now ruined because they cant ride toy story, or soarin, or test track 3,4,5 times in a row. I have also read way too many posts about people saying how their kids trip to Disney now is ruined because of fast pass +. I get a lot of people hate the idea of only 3 selections in 1 park a day, but why must people bring their kids into the discussion? Do you really believe that your kids trip is going to be ruined because they can only select 3 fast passes?

 

[dwheaton]

I really enjoy these discussions, even when they get a bit heated. It's great to have a place to come and obsess over the small details of a Disney trip when I need a break from less-thrilling work at the office. As long as people don't get nasty, it's okay with me.

I actually don't have as big an issue with the tiers for DHS. I don't like the limit on three FPs, but when you put that aside, the set-up here isn't too bad. I'll take my FP+ for Toy Story, Tower of Terror, and Star Tours and be just fine. Then I'll go right to RNR at rope drop and ride it a few times before the lines get crazy. People are still going to run to TSM regardless of the FP+, so the first 30 minutes at RNR should be a breeze. I might even get an extra ride on TOT.

I still don't like the changes, but these tiers are less challenging that the EPCOT set-up.

 

[tsabs22]

Look I knew when I first posted that I would mostly get flamed for my comments. Just because I go against the grain, all you guys jump on me. Im not sticking up for fast pass + in any means. But Im not going to complain about it either. All I was trying to make a point of was that I don't get the discussions about kids trips ruined, or other trips ruined because of fast pass + and not being able to ride a headliner multiple times, and/or having to stand in lines. Theme parks have lines. I have yet to have someone here point me to a theme park that has no lines. And I get that universal, and seaworld have skip the line passes that you can buy, and yes maybe Disney should invest in something like that and Im sure that would fix a lot of the problems people are complaining about. But I bet even if they were to do something like that, most of you would find something wrong with that too. Its just funny to see how many people jump off the bandwagon once something doesn't go their way. Months ago before all this fast pass + came about, Im sure most of you were talking about how great Disney is, how its the best place in the world, and now you are the very same ones complaining about never coming back.

 

[Planogirl]

And I completely agree with your post. Im not against people discussing. And Im not even against people talking about bad experiences with trips. Believe me I have been there, done that. What I just don't understand is that I have seen wayyyyy too many posts about how peoples trips are now ruined because they cant ride toy story, or soarin, or test track 3,4,5 times in a row. I have also read way too many posts about people saying how their kids trip to Disney now is ruined because of fast pass +. I get a lot of people hate the idea of only 3 selections in 1 park a day, but why must people bring their kids into the discussion? Do you really believe that your kids trip is going to be ruined because they can only select 3 fast passes?

I would expect that people know their own kids best. I doubt that a stranger can fairly judge each situation.

I also doubt that in effect yelling at people because you don't approve of what they post is really going to change much. Nice try though.

Personally I would settle for riding TSMM once. It doesn't look likely unless we wait in a long line. Is TSMM worth a long line to me? No, so that is out. Am I stressing over not riding this one ride? No. I'm more concerned about rides in general and shows and ADR's and costs and so on. Much of that is changing.

 

[rebbyparker]

And I completely agree with your post. Im not against people discussing. And Im not even against people talking about bad experiences with trips. Believe me I have been there, done that. What I just don't understand is that I have seen wayyyyy too many posts about how peoples trips are now ruined because they cant ride toy story, or soarin, or test track 3,4,5 times in a row. I have also read way too many posts about people saying how their kids trip to Disney now is ruined because of fast pass +. I get a lot of people hate the idea of only 3 selections in 1 park a day, but why must people bring their kids into the discussion? Do you really believe that your kids trip is going to be ruined because they can only select 3 fast passes?

You read my post but completely discounted it. If you DON'T like the way we are discussing our concerns then skip the thread. We don't need to justify why we're posting our concerns to anyone and it's nice that some people get why we're concerned and THOSE people we want to talk to. If you're not one of them and are not contributing anything but "STOP COMPLAINING!!!!", well, now, that's really not very helpful in our eyes. So what I'm saying is to save a lot of trouble and hurt feelings and possibly more anxiety, just let us post our concerns amongst ourselves. Ok? ok.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Look I knew when I first posted that I would mostly get flamed for my comments. Just because I go against the grain, all you guys jump on me. Im not sticking up for fast pass + in any means. But Im not going to complain about it either. All I was trying to make a point of was that I don't get the discussions about kids trips ruined, or other trips ruined because of fast pass + and not being able to ride a headliner multiple times, and/or having to stand in lines. Theme parks have lines. I have yet to have someone here point me to a theme park that has no lines. And I get that universal, and seaworld have skip the line passes that you can buy, and yes maybe Disney should invest in something like that and Im sure that would fix a lot of the problems people are complaining about. But I bet even if they were to do something like that, most of you would find something wrong with that too. Its just funny to see how many people jump off the bandwagon once something doesn't go their way. Months ago before all this fast pass + came about, Im sure most of you were talking about how great Disney is, how its the best place in the world, and now you are the very same ones complaining about never coming back.

Who has jumped off the bandwagon? Not most posters I've read..including those who have concerns. Most have said they are cancelling trips until the testing phase (and the constant changes that come with it) are over and they can truly plan for how fp+ can work with their trips. I've seen very few people say they are never coming back.

 

[stairstepmom]

Here are the main arguments people are making against people who are expressing trepidation or unhappiness with the changes Disney is implementing:

1. Everyone should get the same number of FPs. This is a fair system; stop acting so entitled!

This is the basis of Marxist theory. I am a bleeding heart liberal through and through, but I completely disagree with employing this method for anything in human life - politics, economics, social issues or business.

The legacy FP system was as "fair" as fair comes, because everyone had equal OPPORTUNITY to utilize it. My family's use of 6 to 8 FPs per day was not given to us, but required us to expend effort in order to obtain that - by doing more research, waking up earlier, walking faster, etc. I refuse to believe that people who expend less effort than people who expend more should be ENTITLED - to use your term in its appropriate definition, contrary to what you have done - to the same reward. "Entitled" means one feels they should get something for nothing, or at least that the item received should be disproportionate with the amount of work expended. I don't feel that way at all - I welcome the opportunity to work as hard as I can to obtain the maximum reward, and wish that opportunity to be available to all people.

Is Disney truly conducting an economic experiment in Marxism? I don't know. Given the lesson to be learned from history, I would hope not. But I would not be that surprised. I am, however, surprised to see so many people on this board supporting this type of argument, as I have to wonder if they would feel the same way about other aspects of their lives - if your professor decided to average all test scores and assign everyone the same grade, or your employer decided to use your entire department's performance when determining your raise, rather than your own individual effort, would this be acceptable to you?

2. This system is great for me, therefore it should be good enough for you.

There's little counterargument for this one; one may as well bash one's head repeatedly into a wall. Nothing is universally useful to everyone. That is a basic truth that should be apparent to anyone. It's one thing to not share the opinion of another, but to be unable to comprehend the possibility that other opinions exist is a problem that runs deeper than any argument can address.

3. There are worse things. First world problems, etc.

Ah, the comparative virtue fallacy. Indeed, there are worse things. And there always will be, unless all of humanity can agree on THE worst thing by which all other things must be judged. Seeing as that's pretty much not going to happen - ever - we instead need to agree that it's all relative and each experience must be judged independent of others, on its own merit. I could tell the person who has a high-strung toddler, "Get over it, it could be worse - you could have a child with Down syndrome like I do" and then my friend could tell me, "No, you get over it, you could have a child with CP in a nearly vegetative state like I do." This is not a rational argument. This is the desperate act of someone incapable of engaging in rational argument. Human experience is not measured on some universal hierarchy; each of our experiences - and the thoughts, emotions and goals that result from those - is unique to us and equally worthy of respect.

4. You're in Disney. It's a vacation. Just enjoy it!

This is a similar argument to #3, but it also adds an element of naivete by assuming that one cannot possibly have complaints about an experience while also enjoying themselves. As I stated before, this is perfectly normal psychological functioning to be able to experience conflicting emotions at once. Enjoying an experience does not exempt you from disappointment, nor does it remove your right to complain. If you were eating at a favorite restaurant and your steak was seriously underdone, that doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the restaurant or the fabulous dessert that follows, nor does it mean you should refrain from sending the steak back and voicing your opinion to the chef. This common oversimplification of human motivation being employed on this forum is concerning.

5. Reserve judgment until after your trip - you can't possibly complain before that point!

There are two problems with this argument; the first being that it again shows a lack of understanding of human motivation, and in so doing also shows a lack of self-awareness on the part of the person making the argument. All humans engage in pre-assessment of a situation; it's actually a wonderful part of our ability to adapt to our environment and survive. If we did not attempt to assess and form some rudimentary opinions on future events, we'd be floundering around waiting for the future to become the present. I am able to decide to allot 12 hours for my final paper in my class because I am able to make an estimation of the amount of work that will be required in order for me to obtain my desired grade. I suppose some might approach life with an attitude of, "I don't know how long it'll take me, I guess I'll see when I get started" which is all fine unless you don't allow enough of a potential time cushion and later find you needed more time than you had. The key is to remain mentally flexible and able to adapt to new information that might alter your pre-assessment. This means I'm capable of feeling trepidation and dislike for the new system I'll be using, while still recognizing that I may be surprised and alter my opinion after our trip. The fact that we may change our opinions with new information does not mean that we should - nor that we are even mentally capable of! - withhold all initial judgments based on the information we have in the present time.


I respect that others think this system is a positive change - and I have no desire to change that opinion, as I don't see how changing the opinion of others provides any benefit for me. Disney has invested a lot of money into this enterprise, they have a final vision in mind already, and even if I managed to convince the pre-RD crowd at HS to join me in a mass peaceful protest, Disney would not veer from this course.

I do not, however, appreciate the level of animosity that is consistently being expressed against people like myself who are expressing concern, worry, stress, anger, or any other negative emotion over the changes taking place. Does my negative opinion somehow take away from the value of your positive one? Some people here apparently think it does, and I'm not quite sure why.

 

[promisesfound]

Don't we all love Disney because of the total experience and not just FP? The new system is still in the TESTING phase and yes this tier thing does not seem to be optimal but I really think Disney is trying to better control crowd flow and are just trying out different methods to see what works best. Maybe we should all wait until everything is said & done to see what will actually shake out. If Disney is still going to allow non resort guest the option of FP that means the old system will have too remain in place in some form so who's to say it wont turn out that you can only reserve one good one in advance but you can still get FP to these rides on the ground day of your visit?!

 

[mesaboy2]

Thanks again stairstepmom for another terrific, reasoned post.

 

[tsabs22]

You read my post but completely discounted it. If you DON'T like the way we are discussing our concerns then skip the thread. We don't need to justify why we're posting our concerns to anyone and it's nice that some people get why we're concerned and THOSE people we want to talk to. If you're not one of them and are not contributing anything but "STOP COMPLAINING!!!!", well, now, that's really not very helpful in our eyes. So what I'm saying is to save a lot of trouble and hurt feelings and possibly more anxiety, just let us post our concerns amongst ourselves. Ok? ok.

sure, I apologize if I upset you or anyone else here. Just sharing my two cents but obviously wasn't needed or wanted haha. My bad guys.

 

[rebbyparker]

I do not, however, appreciate the level of animosity that is consistently being expressed against people like myself who are expressing concern, worry, stress, anger, or any other negative emotion over the changes taking place. Does my negative opinion somehow take away from the value of your positive one? Some people here apparently think it does, and I'm not quite sure why.

Exactly!

 

[Jennasis]

For those who "don't get" why people are upset, or why trips have been cancelled, or why so much angst...frankly you don't have to get it. You also don't have to participate in any discussions on it. If you "can't stand" to see people complaining...don't open the threads. But finger wagging, shaming, being dismissive of others feelings/concerns/touring preferences and overall high horsing are just as unacceptable. Just something to consider.

 

[rt2dz]

While I'm not disputing the amount of money you're spending- just in case anyone is reading this - TiW is not blacked out for the whole week- only Thanksgiving Day- in the past I have had luck using my TiW on blackout days so if you have one try it- it is definitely not blacked out all week though.

Beginning August 1, 2014 many of the restaurants we dine at have added additional blackout dates for the entire week.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[CandleontheWater]

All these posts about how ppl's toddler is so high energy and doesn't like waiting in lines so you should not have to. Come on. There are a million high energy toddlers going to WDW, and they all want to ride the rides, thus, you have long lines. It does not work like those who are patient wait and those who are impatient get to go quicker cuz your child will whine if he has to stand still. (medical disabilities understandably excepted, for which there are alternatives).

And is it really the toddler who is impatient, or the parent? It is the parent posting out here... I think the toddlers themselves are enthralled to be at Disney World and completely amazed at everything going on around them, and frankly, are quite happy playing w the silly line-amusement toys like by Soarin. It is worlds ahead of a Great America type park where you just have to stand.

Yes. Previously, the system could be manipulated so that some aggressive ticket-seekers could ride more than other people at those other ppl's expense. Yes, Disney has correctly, and for the better of most, cracked down on this. Yes since you can't do it any more, and you can only FP+ one headliner, you get to ride less. But everyone else gets to ride more, and that, simply, is better for Disney, and everyone else.

All this whining is soooo.... like.... yeah. Like a toddler standing in a line.

Going in May, excited! Despite the fact that we'll be standing in the same lines that y'all will.

I assume you are referencing me. As has been repeated ad nasuem around here, is that prior to FP+, people willing to put a in little leg work were able to reap the benefits of shorter lines. Put in the work, get the reward, it was a perfect fair system. Any parent who was motivated (and trust me, any parent of an active little boy IS motivated), could have a vacation with minimal stress and maximum fun.

Anyone can do what I did, ANYONE could have the vacations that I had, there is nothing special about me. Some people chose to vacation differently than I do, but it was choice.

Now, no matter how motivated or hard working I am at Disney, I have to choose one short wait and one longer wait. This is a distinct reduction, no matter how you try to dress it up in pixie dust.

There is a reason why we don't go to traditional amusement parks and its because of the waits, and no, interactive queues don't make up for increased wait times.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Beginning August 1, 2014 many of the restaurants we dine at have added additional blackout dates for the entire week.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

What are you even talking about?

 

[JanaDee]

For those who "don't get" why people are upset, or why trips have been cancelled, or why so much angst...frankly you don't have to get it. You also don't have to participate in any discussions on it. If you "can't stand" to see people complaining...don't open the threads. But finger wagging, shaming, being dismissive of others feelings/concerns/touring preferences and overall high horsing are just as unacceptable. Just something to consider.

 

[rebbyparker]

sure, I apologize if I upset you or anyone else here. Just sharing my two cents but obviously wasn't needed or wanted haha. My bad guys.

Not upset. You're not the first one who's posted like that, not even the first one today. As much as you don't get why we would post anything negative, I don't get why we can't.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Darn, stairstepmom...you are on a roll!! Another excellent post!!

 

[tsabs22]

Not upset. You're not the first one who's posted like that, not even the first one today. As much as you don't get why we would post anything negative, I don't get why we can't.

fair enough