Ticked off *vent*

Nope, don't buy into this "trumping" business. (Together with DH 30+ years.)

If it's a need, it can't be "trumped". Trumping/squashing means one person's needs go unfulfilled.

In the case of your parents, Coconut, it sounds like both of your parents have hesitations.

Not the case with Minkydog. She's ready to welcome another dog into her home. The only thing standing in her way is her DH. She has posted about this before.

But you are "trumping" their feelings and needs too. And no in my parents case there is not hesitation on both parts..I was trying to be vague so as not to identify what parents felt what way..one is 100% on board for a pet..one is 100% opposed to it.

To me if someone does not want or is not ready for a pet they win..just like with kids. Kids give to us as well but nobody would say "have a kid even if your husband doesn't want one" would they? (at least I would hope they wouldn't). No matter how bad you want it you absolutely have to consider the feelings of the other...if they are not ready emotionally or feel it is too much to take on with what is currently going on that to me trumps your "needs". It's much easier to fill a need to be around animals than it is to be resentful and angry towards the new animal because you didn't want it/were not ready for it.
 
We're in a "parallel" situation, if you will. I've been a *huge* dog lover all my life, but my DH has always liked to have multiple dogs (7 at present), and, to tell you the truth, as I (ahem) approach middle age, I'm starting to burn out on the constant care requred (and it's me who does it, and who gets emotionally close to them). Our youngest two dogs are 4 1/2, which means we'll have them, at most, another decade. I've told DH that there will be no more dogs under that age brought into the home, because I want to have the choice to be "done" in a decade.

So call me mean, too, if you want. I love DH, but pets are like kids in that they are a *constant* responsibility....

Terri
 
I hear what you're saying, but it's not as if she has never been able to have a dog. She has had a dog. The OP has posted quite a bit about just how much their cup has been overflowing for a great many years while tending to their children's needs, some of which were quite profound and demanding, as well as major health issues for her DH & I believe some significant issues she's faced herself. All the while they had a dog added to the mix.
I get it.

OP herself has been quite clear about the fact they needed to have some burdens lifted, sooner rather than later, before the load crushed their health and psychological wellbeing. Solutions have come for some of their challenges. Change is rough. Looks like OP is reaching out in an attempt to reconstruct the familiar without considering she may find a new way of life rewarding and enriching -- along with her spouse and his needs/desires. Right now is not the time for her to be making major decisions. Helping out at the animal shelter is a great solution for interacting with dogs and providing much needed help at the same time. They've done the dog in the family routine for quite a while. It's not at all unreasonable for her DH to have a spiritual need not to be a caretaker for a dog right now and I think OP is wise to respect that and revisit it later if she feels the same down the road.
That is only for Minky herself to decide. Perhaps having a dog would HELP her right now.

I am thankful that I've had a dog with me during some of the more challenging times of my life.

You can look at it either way.

We cannot make that decision for her. And if she wants a dog (and I've followed ALL of her posts on this, not just this one), then she should not be prevented from having one. As a capable adult, SHE gets to make that decision for herself. If it comes to a crossroads in her marriage, then she'll have to deal with that. But wanting a dog and being told she can't have one will also put her at a crossroads. Perhaps this is a bigger sign of issues between them. But regardless, it's not ok for one person to squash the other's needs and desires. If others disagree, then so be it. Just stating my opinion. This is something they need to compromise on if Minky feels she really wants a dog. And yes, there are ways to compromise - she can wait a while, she can get an older dog as opposed to a puppy, she can get a certain breed or personality in a dog, she can arrange for care if her DH doesn't want to be involved, etc. And she can certainly volunteer at a shelter or whatever but again, only she can decide if that will fulfill her spiritual need for a pet.
 
A lot of people are talking about what a pet "takes". But what about what a pet "gives"?

Minkydog needs what a pet "gives".

Her DH may not want what a pet "takes", nor need what a pet "gives".

That's all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that Minkydog has a SPIRITUAL NEED for what a dog GIVES. It is important to her well being.

As I said before, I don't think it's fair for someone to deny that need to someone else. His needs should be recognized as well, sure. But it's a big problem if one person's need is completely squashed by the other's.

I am hoping with maybe a little time, her DH can come around. It would have been a lot easier on Minky if he could have at least discussed it and shown a little sensitivity to her needs.

While that is true, Minky has to be home to actually care for the dog and not force it on her dh.

You know that is cruel thing to do to a dog. Have a caregiver that did not want it in the first place.
 

But you are "trumping" their feelings and needs too. And no in my parents case there is not hesitation on both parts..I was trying to be vague so as not to identify what parents felt what way..one is 100% on board for a pet..one is 100% opposed to it.

To me if someone does not want or is not ready for a pet they win..just like with kids. Kids give to us as well but nobody would say "have a kid even if your husband doesn't want one" would they? (at least I would hope they wouldn't). No matter how bad you want it you absolutely have to consider the feelings of the other...if they are not ready emotionally or feel it is too much to take on with what is currently going on that to me trumps your "needs". It's much easier to fill a need to be around animals than it is to be resentful and angry towards the new animal because you didn't want it/were not ready for it.
So how is the DH considering Minkydog's feelings if he won't even discuss it? If he slams the door shut on any possibility of her getting a dog?

Everyone's more than ready to protect the DH's feelings yet somewhat dismissive of Minky's, IMO.

Minky has said she feels a dog would help with some of her issues (which I won't get into, but were posted in earlier threads). And I agree.
 
When we had to put our last dog down, I was devastated. Both DH and I loved her to death, but he had his job to go to each day while I was left with an empty house...newly empty nesters after having 4 kids. So, I really get what your are feeling, OP! After a few weeks, I would go on the animal shelter websites and find dogs that needed rescued and email their pictures to my DH. He said no to any more pets of any kind. We had always had dogs and cats, but all were gone now. I understood his viewpoint as two of our children lived out of state and we always said when Brandy was gone, we would do more traveling. (she didn't do well when we weren't there no matter who dog sat for us) I even thought about volunteering at an animal shelter, but DH said it would be a good idea only if I rode my bicycle so I couldn't bring one home.:rotfl:

Understand, my DH gives me whatever I want whenever I want if it is in his power to do so. He talked with me about it and we had a calm discussion (several in fact), so that also helped. He understood, which I think would go a long way to help in this case as well.

In the end, we didn't get a dog and it's been over 7 years now and I have adjusted. He was completely right. I don't know how many times I've thought, 'we wouldn't be able to be going to see the grandkids if we still had a dog'. We go places all the time and have a great time doing it. It helps that we moved to a new neighborhood where we are surrounded by families with dogs. Our one neighbor has two long-haired daschunds who come over regularly, know where we keep their treats and have their own water dish. It's the best of both worlds, so we get our doggie fix without having the care and expense.

OP, I hope you can find something that makes you feel worthwhile and needed. It sounds as though you are depressed, and from what I've been reading on here, with good reason. I think other posters were right when they suggested finding something else to fill your emptiness. There are a lot of hurting people out there who could use help or just a few kind words. Good luck to you. You are wise to wait until the new year. Maybe you'll feel differently about it as well. I've been there. It will get better.:flower3:
 
So how is the DH considering Minkydog's feelings if he won't even discuss it? If he slams the door shut on any possibility of her getting a dog?

Everyone's more than ready to protect the DH's feelings yet somewhat dismissive of Minky's, IMO.

Minky has said she feels a dog would help with some of her issues (which I won't get into, but were posted in earlier threads). And I agree.

Again, that is because she expects her dh to do the bulk of the care!!!
 
While that is true, Minky has to be home to actually care for the dog and not force it on her dh.
What would happen if there was no DH home, and Minky was working? Crating? Isn't that ok? Does the DH have to be involved?

You know that is cruel thing to do to a dog. Have a caregiver that did not want it in the first place.
I don't think it's a good idea to bring a dog into a home where it's not welcomed by everyone. What I am objecting to is one person making that decision for the whole household when another, fully equal member wants one, without any discussion at all. I would want to see Minky's DH want it for her, out of love and concern for her. It's possible that isn't within his capability, and perhaps understandably so where they've had so many really, really difficult years. But where does that leave Minky? Sad, angry, depressed, resentful, isolated, etc. Is that really in her best interest?
 
I hear what you're saying, but it's not as if she has never been able to have a dog. She has had a dog. The OP has posted quite a bit about just how much their cup has been overflowing for a great many years while tending to their children's needs, some of which were quite profound and demanding, as well as major health issues for her DH & I believe some significant issues she's faced herself. All the while they had a dog added to the mix.

OP herself has been quite clear about the fact they needed to have some burdens lifted, sooner rather than later, before the load crushed their health and psychological wellbeing. Solutions have come for some of their challenges. Change is rough. Looks like OP is reaching out in an attempt to reconstruct the familiar without considering she may find a new way of life rewarding and enriching -- along with her spouse and his needs/desires. Right now is not the time for her to be making major decisions. Helping out at the animal shelter is a great solution for interacting with dogs and providing much needed help at the same time. They've done the dog in the family routine for quite a while. It's not at all unreasonable for her DH to have a spiritual need not to be a caretaker for a dog right now and I think OP is wise to respect that and revisit it later if she feels the same down the road.
::yes::
Maybe he feels it's too soon to take on a dog after Christian's placement. Give him space and time. He's the one who will have to do much of the dog care.
 
What would happen if there was no DH home, and Minky was working? Crating? Isn't that ok? Does the DH have to be involved?


I don't think it's a good idea to bring a dog into a home where it's not welcomed by everyone. ?{/QUOTE]

I personally have no problem with crating (mine are crated all day when I'm at work) but I do have a problem with a dog living with someone who openly resents it. Dogs *need* to be loved and be part of the pack, and always seem to sense who likes them the least, and try to win that person over. How disheartening would it be for this dog to live with a man who actively dislikes/resents it? Poodles are softhearted, especially, and I think that would be cruel...

Terri
 
I get it.


That is only for Minky herself to decide. Perhaps having a dog would HELP her right now.

I am thankful that I've had a dog with me during some of the more challenging times of my life.

You can look at it either way.

We cannot make that decision for her. And if she wants a dog (and I've followed ALL of her posts on this, not just this one), then she should not be prevented from having one. As a capable adult, SHE gets to make that decision for herself. If it comes to a crossroads in her marriage, then she'll have to deal with that. But wanting a dog and being told she can't have one will also put her at a crossroads. Perhaps this is a bigger sign of issues between them. But regardless, it's not ok for one person to squash the other's needs and desires. If others disagree, then so be it. Just stating my opinion. This is something they need to compromise on if Minky feels she really wants a dog. And yes, there are ways to compromise - she can wait a while, she can get an older dog as opposed to a puppy, she can get a certain breed or personality in a dog, she can arrange for care if her DH doesn't want to be involved, etc. And she can certainly volunteer at a shelter or whatever but again, only she can decide if that will fulfill her spiritual need for a pet.

This is why there really is no compromise in this situation. It's either she squashes his needs and desires or he squashes hers. All your "compromises" consist of a dog coming into the household where one of the members does not want one. That is not a compromise. I'm so glad you are able to have a dog to get you through your challenging times. I was glad to have one as well. And my hope is that Minky will eventually be able to have one once again. :flower3:
 
For those that say having a dog limits traveling...yes, you can still travel. We travel heavily - several times a year and have never had an issue. There is always a way to take care of the pets. Some travel with their pets, others arrange for them to stay at a family members's or neighbor's house, some have in-home sitters, some arrange for doggy camp. Yes, it's an expense. Mine LOVE, LOVE, LOVE our local dog hotel. They have more fun there than at home, I think. Some of the places out there now are fabulous - with plush dog pillows, large exercise yards, in-ground doggy pools, even some private rooms have TV's and ceiling fans. Crazy to some but worth it to others.

I believe the traveling issue is largely an excuse used for not wanting to have a pet. If it is truly want you want you will find a way to make it work when traveling.

This does not apply to those that travel for months and months out of the year which I believe, does not apply to the majority. That's a whole other situation.
 
What would happen if there was no DH home, and Minky was working? Crating? Isn't that ok? Does the DH have to be involved?


I don't think it's a good idea to bring a dog into a home where it's not welcomed by everyone.

I personally have no problem with crating (mine are crated all day when I'm at work) but I do have a problem with a dog living with someone who openly resents it. Dogs *need* to be loved and be part of the pack, and always seem to sense who likes them the least, and try to win that person over. How disheartening would it be for this dog to live with a man who actively dislikes/resents it? Poodles are softhearted, especially, and I think that would be cruel...

Terri
You must have missed what I wrote above.

Pea-n-Me said:
I would want to see Minky's DH want it for her, out of love and concern for her.
 
A lot of people are talking about what a pet "takes". But what about what a pet "gives"?

Minkydog needs what a pet "gives".

Her DH may not want what a pet "takes", nor need what a pet "gives".

That's all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that Minkydog has a SPIRITUAL NEED for what a dog GIVES. It is important to her well being.

As I said before, I don't think it's fair for someone to deny that need to someone else. His needs should be recognized as well, sure. But it's a big problem if one person's need is completely squashed by the other's.

I am hoping with maybe a little time, her DH can come around. It would have been a lot easier on Minky if he could have at least discussed it and shown a little sensitivity to her needs.
I don't disagree that a pet gives a lot. Otherwise why we would mourn them so badly when they die.

I think what people are suggesting is that perhaps Minky can find a way to get what she needs via another avenue besides owning a dog right now. There seems to have been a lot of change & upheaval in their lives in the relatively recent past. Maybe there just needs to be time to breathe a little before jumping into the next thing.
 
Sorry, not going to break this down into a big disagreement fest. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. :p

Have already stated my case so am not going to keep going back and arguing each point.

But I do want to show this to Minky. I know she will understand and appreciate it. :flower3:

Emotions and spiritual needs also interrelate on a
clinical level: Spirituality has been shown to be associated
with decreased anxiety and depression.
27–32 Increased
use of spiritual practices among persons with AIDS has
been associated with a decrease in psychological distress
and depression and an increase in emotional coping
ability.33,34 The Systems of Beliefs Inventory,
developed to measure spirituality and religious practices
in medical populations, recognizes the overlapping emotional,
cognitive, behavioral, and social elements of spirituality.
35 Furthermore, emotions and spiritual needs are
consistent with patients’ perceptions of a single self
where all needs intermingle.36 The notion that caring for
emotional and spiritual needs employs behaviors and
interventions of a similar nature—support, sensitivity,
empathy, comfort, affirmation, and attentiveness to
patients’ unique needs—is supported by the literature

and in the data analysis of the survey results.

Impact on Health Outcomes.

Poor psychological and emotional health damages physical health
outcomes. A review of emotional distress and coronary
heart disease reported that depression, stress, anger, and
negative emotions in general were strongly associated
with increased cardiac death and reinfarction, independently
of disease severity
.37 For example, Pratt et al.38
confirmed that depression increases the risk of myocardial
infarction (MI), and Anda et al.39 found that depression
and feelings of hopelessness were associated with
increased mortality from ischemic heart disease.

Conversely, emotional well-being has been shown to
be predictive of survival and functional independence
among older patients.40 The widely accepted causal relationship
between social support and physical health41
could be the product of reduction in emotional distress.42
In a vicious “cycle of decline” between psychological distress
and perceived health, psychological distress would
lead to increased negative health perceptions, which, in
turn, would lead to increased distress and further deterioration
in perceived health.
43

Health outcomes can be positively affected by attempts
to address emotional and psychosocial needs. Two studies
noted positive physiological responses resulting from the
emotional comfort of spirituality.44,45 Through in-depth
patient interviews, Kent et al.46 found anxiety, depression,
and other poor outcomes to be common among patients
with unmet emotional needs.
Three studies found that
psychosocial interventions reduced mortality rates among
cancer patients.47–49 Appropriate, well-considered responses
to emotional distress in cancer patients have been
found to reduce psychological morbidity.50,51

Psychosocial interventions benefit patients through
improved quality of life, emotional adjustment, functional
adjustment, and psychosocial functioning.52,53 Metaanalyses
indicate positive clinical effects and decreased
anxiety from preemptive psychological interventions
that target patients at risk of psychological distress.53
Studies by Blumenthal et al.54,55 have found that stress
management interventions reduce cardiac morbidity.
Reducing emotional distress in patients with coronary
heart disease improves long-term prognosis.56 Numerous
literature reviews confirm that psychoeducational interventions
improve clinical outcomes (for example, anxiety,
depression, pain) while reducing length of stay.57–62
Finally, spiritual and psychosocial interventions have
been shown to help patients cope with disease and the
effects of hospitalization.63–65

In summary, these studies suggest that emotional and
spiritual needs have a profound effect on patients’ health
outcomes
and deserve the attention of health care professionals.

http://www.permanente.net/homepage/kaiser/pdf/51472.pdf
 
I get it.


That is only for Minky herself to decide. Perhaps having a dog would HELP her right now.

I am thankful that I've had a dog with me during some of the more challenging times of my life.

You can look at it either way.

We cannot make that decision for her. And if she wants a dog (and I've followed ALL of her posts on this, not just this one), then she should not be prevented from having one. As a capable adult, SHE gets to make that decision for herself. If it comes to a crossroads in her marriage, then she'll have to deal with that. But wanting a dog and being told she can't have one will also put her at a crossroads. Perhaps this is a bigger sign of issues between them. But regardless, it's not ok for one person to squash the other's needs and desires. If others disagree, then so be it. Just stating my opinion. This is something they need to compromise on if Minky feels she really wants a dog. And yes, there are ways to compromise - she can wait a while, she can get an older dog as opposed to a puppy, she can get a certain breed or personality in a dog, she can arrange for care if her DH doesn't want to be involved, etc. And she can certainly volunteer at a shelter or whatever but again, only she can decide if that will fulfill her spiritual need for a pet.

Essentially though, Minky getting a dog when her husband is against it right now would be squashing his need and desire NOT to have a dog.

Why is that OK?
 
Essentially though, Minky getting a dog when her husband is against it right now would be squashing his need and desire NOT to have a dog.

Why is that OK?
He has gone about it in a selfish and patriarchal way. Why is that ok?

Are Minkys feelings and needs that unimportant to him? How would you feel if your husband did that to you? I'm guessing, not great. ;)
 
I get it.


That is only for Minky herself to decide. Perhaps having a dog would HELP her right now.

I am thankful that I've had a dog with me during some of the more challenging times of my life.

You can look at it either way.

We cannot make that decision for her. And if she wants a dog (and I've followed ALL of her posts on this, not just this one), then she should not be prevented from having one. As a capable adult, SHE gets to make that decision for herself. If it comes to a crossroads in her marriage, then she'll have to deal with that. But wanting a dog and being told she can't have one will also put her at a crossroads. Perhaps this is a bigger sign of issues between them. But regardless, it's not ok for one person to squash the other's needs and desires. If others disagree, then so be it. Just stating my opinion. This is something they need to compromise on if Minky feels she really wants a dog. And yes, there are ways to compromise - she can wait a while, she can get an older dog as opposed to a puppy, she can get a certain breed or personality in a dog, she can arrange for care if her DH doesn't want to be involved, etc. And she can certainly volunteer at a shelter or whatever but again, only she can decide if that will fulfill her spiritual need for a pet.

It is a commonly accepted adage that you should not make major life decisions within a year after losing a loved one. Granted, that advice is usually applied when the loss is a human one. I understand very well both the joy you can only get from your dog, as well as how devastating it is to lose them, so I certainly wouldn't minimize anyone's grief over their loss.

OP has also undergone the big transition of moving her son to live with another family to care for him. A wonderful blessing that's worked out well, bittersweet at the very same time. That's another major recent life change.

I stand by my opinion now is not the time to make major life decisions. I definitely say to suggest someone should jeopardize their longstanding, and from what I understand thriving and overall supportive marriage in a fit of pique to get her way is ridiculous. She may only think now that another dog will fill the void. If that doesn't work, should she perhaps start drinking wine at night because it helps her feel mellow and forget? If that doesn't work, maybe a nice shopping spree to update her wardrobe and redecorate the house? If all else fails, I'm sure somebody here will suggest a trip to Disney will fix it.

Suggesting OP gets her way, even at the expense of her marriage, is idiocy and no good will come of that type of thinking.

BTW, I'm not suggesting or even thinking OP would ever do any such thing, merely following your suggestion to its conclusion.
 
While that is true, Minky has to be home to actually care for the dog and not force it on her dh.
.

I think this is key. Minky is not going to be home to care for the dog. If there was no one else home and she wanted to have a pet she would be responsible for an issues that arise from that pet but because her DH is home he will have to address those issues. He needs to be in agreement.


So how is the DH considering Minkydog's feelings if he won't even discuss it? If he slams the door shut on any possibility of her getting a dog?

Everyone's more than ready to protect the DH's feelings yet somewhat dismissive of Minky's, IMO.
.


I don't think anyone here has been protective of her DH. I believe that in any relationship communication is important and that is is not acceptable to give a blanket "no.". I think that the fact that her DH has refused to discuss this issue screams how he feels about it. He should at least talk to her, IMO.

The reality here is that while Minky would like a pet and would benefit from the companionship a pet provides she is not going to be the Primary caregiver for that dog. Her DH is and he has said he does not want to do this. We are all thinking about the dog. Not the DH. And the effect that having an unwanted pet may have on their relationship. Minky can get some of her needs met by helping unwanted pets. After a while when their life settles down they can open the discussion up again.
Sorry, not going to break this down into a big disagreement fest. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. :p
:

Of course you are. This is a message board and goodness know we are all opinionated ;)
 
Of course you are. This is a message board and goodness know we are all opinionated ;)
Yes, you're right. At least you read what I wrote. And didn't insult, like the poster above you.

Idiocy, huh? Umm, ok. So that's what it breaks down to if someone's opinion differs from yours, cabanafrau? Dont pretend you couldn't have found another way to phrase that.
 


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