Thoughts on Measles outbreak?

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Why do you suppose measles had been eradicated for so many years? What is it you think that has eliminated polio if not vaccines?

Nyan Cat eliminated polio.

 

[cabanafrau]

Nyan Cat eliminated polio.

Now I feel stupid. I had no idea.

 

[Cubbiecakes]

I believe science.

You don't have to believe science. Peer-reviewed and replicated science is Fact. (Part of the problem is the media, which reports experimental results that have not been peer-reviewed or replicated, in the name of grabbing viewers, and hence, advertising dollars - c.f. Wakefield's autism study, cold fusion, most One Weird Trick weight loss studies, etc., etc., etc.)

If you have to believe in something's "truth," it's most likely not Truth, it's BS.

 

[billlaurie]

The pertussis outbreak among middle schoolers in CA was believed to be the result of waning immunity from a new form of the vaccine (acellular) commonly given now because of fewer adverse effects compared to the original whole cell version. It should be noted that it is a trade off that reduces adverse effects but is not as effective and requires boosters. Those middle schoolers had milder cases because they were vaccinated. A fully vaccinated young child has adequate protection and the vaccine is concentrated in infancy because babies are the group that die from this disease. Immunity wanes in a number of vaccines but that is no excuse to not vaccinate. It means you vaccinate more.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

 

[mummabear]

Have you experienced what it is like to live with a child trapped in the most severe form of autism? Where they don't sleep, only eat one food, rip things apart, attack pets and younger siblings, hit, bite, kick, bang against the wall until bleeding, break out of the house in the middle of the night and run into the street? I don't think those parents want their children to be dead, but they would gladly accept a cure.

And yet by choosing not to vaccinate that is exactly what they are saying, they are willing to risk their child dying from preventable diseases than "risk" (in their uneducated belief) them getting autistim

 

[lifesavacation]

Wish I had known about vaccine dangers before we had our kids vaccinated. Both my husband and I discourage our children from having our grandchildren vaccinated.

How many of those with measles were unvaccinated? In California, there was an outbreak of whooping cough and 100% of the children who caught it had been vaccinated. Makes you wonder how effective or, in this case ineffective, the vaccines are. If the vaccines worked, why are children who have been vaccinated getting the diseases?

Can I ask where you got your statistic that 100% of the children were vaccinated. That sounds highly improbable.

 

[billlaurie]

Can I ask where you got your statistic that 100% of the children were vaccinated. That sounds highly improbable.

I recall this case and I believe that the poster is accurate with this fact, see my post above. It brought to light the reduced effectiveness of the new acellular vaccine. The irony is that health officials believed the outbreak started with an unvaccinated individual. As far as the current measles outbreak, that is result of people not vaccinating. The current measles series is highly effective although measles outbreaks in the 70s and 80s taught us that we needed a booster.

 

[Katie Dawn]

And if you dig deeper into this data, it isn't the vaccine itself most of the time that is an issue. It is bad administration, or an allergic reaction to an ingredient in the vaccine.

True. As I recall, the first child ever awarded from this fund had a genetic disorder. She already had the disorder, but no one knew it yet. The symptoms of the disorder would have been "turned on" the first time her immune system was activated. So her first cold, her first stomach virus... Just so happens her immune system was activated for thr first time when she was vaccinated. So her family was compensated. So in that case it truly had nothing to do with the vaccine itself.

 

[kimblebee]

I snorted at the second picture lol


As I said upthread, I am immunocompromised so thank you to everyone who gets vaccinated. I am up to date but who knows if it would be enough if I came in contact with measles or something.

I get my numbers checked monthly and when I’m on the low side for white blood cells, everyone who enters the house has to Purell.

 

[cobright]

Here's what I know, NYC spends millions every year poisoning rats in the subway. Just implemented a 33 million dollar plan to kill more rats using dry ice, and restrict rat access to places where they may come into contact with people.

They do this because rats carry disease.

But I'm supposed to be comfortable letting herds of human disease vectors loose in town?

I with the polio vaccine, there was a permanent visible scar so everyone would know you were safe.

 

[NJlauren]

I worry every day about the state of the human race.

Omg! I have no words sometimes.

My 9 month old is getting MMR early (will still need 2 additional shots), because of the outbreaks. Honestly how are we talking about this in 2019?!?!?

 

[ronandannette]

My pediatrician had that policy when my kids were babies. His thought process was that if you didn't trust his recommendations on vaccinations, then he was not the pediatrician for you. There's absolutely got to be trust between patient and doctor for that relationship to work. You were free to find someone else whose opinion you respected, because clearly you did not respect his. In his view, the science on vaccinations is crystal clear, not reasonably subject to debate.

Now this approach actually bugs me quite a bit. NOT the part where a doctor refuses to treat patients unless they are vaccinated - that is his right and I'm fine with it. But the above wording makes him sound like a petulant tyrant and I wonder where it ends? There's a difference between trust and unconditional obedience. If I want to try diet and exercise instead of meds for high blood pressure or prefer to try physiotherapy rather than surgery for a skeletal issue am I dumped then too? Personally I require my medical professionals to be open to discussions of my concerns and respect that my medical decisions ultimately rest with me.

I've got it scheduled in my next physical. Of course, I didn't get the chicken pox until I was in my early 20's, so I'm a late bloomer. (I know it doesn't mean I won't get shingles, I just think it's funny I got chicken pox so late!)...

As I understand it, the only way you can get shingles is if you have previously had chicken pox. The chicken pox virus resides forever in the body and if it is triggered out of dormancy it results not in another case of chicken pox but instead you get shingles. My appointment for that vaccine cannot come soon enough!

 

[Hrhpd]

Actually, anything here is open for debate. The vaccine court has paid out over 119 million dollars this year to those injured by vaccines.

You need to get your information from the actual department, not the internet rumor mill. 1 person for every MILLION doses of vaccines was compensated. One in a million was injured. And that does not even go into the severity of the injury. ONE IN A MILLION odds are incredibly good odds that vaccines are safe.

And to top it off, 80% of the petitions filed were settlements where no determination was made that the vaccine was the actual cause of the injury. So, the rate of injury for a vaccine is even smaller than 1 in a million.

You quote $119 million dollars has been paid out already. Not sure where you are getting those numbers, but if you read below, some of that money is going to lawyers as some lawyers get compensated whether or not a petition is paid out. So, not all of that money was for actual vaccine injuries.

Your grandchildren have an astronomical better chance of dying from one of the diseases than they have for being vaccine injured. You are doing your grandchildren a huge disservice by encouraging their parents not to vaccinate, especially with false knowledge.

I know this link was posted above, however, my guess is antivaxxers won't click on real science, so I thought I would just post the pertinent parts here.

This is as of April 1, 2019
https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html

What does it mean to be awarded compensation?
Being awarded compensation for a petition does not necessarily mean that the vaccine caused the alleged injury. In fact:

• Almost 80% of all compensation awarded by the VICP comes as result of a negotiated settlement between the parties in which HHS has not concluded, based upon review of the evidence, that the alleged vaccine(s) caused the alleged injury.
• Attorneys are eligible for reasonable attorneys’ fees, whether or not the petitioner is awarded compensation by the Court, if certain minimal requirements are met. In those circumstances, attorneys are paid by the VICP directly. By statute, attorneys may not charge any other fee, including a contingency fee, for his or her services in representing a petitioner in the VICP.

How many petitions have been awarded compensation?
According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2017 over 3.4 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 6,253 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 4,291 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, 1 individual was compensated.

 

[DisneyOma]

Wish I had known about vaccine dangers before we had our kids vaccinated. Both my husband and I discourage our children from having our grandchildren vaccinated.

How many of those with measles were unvaccinated? In California, there was an outbreak of whooping cough and 100% of the children who caught it had been vaccinated. Makes you wonder how effective or, in this case ineffective, the vaccines are. If the vaccines worked, why are children who have been vaccinated getting the diseases?

What exactly happened to you and your children when you all got vaccinated?

No it doesn't make me wonder. I looked up the actual scientific statistics, no need to wonder. No vaccine is 100% effective. Two doses of MMR is 97% effective. 97% vs 0%. Your unvaccinated grandchchildren may be putting my vaccinated child at risk.

Her grandchildren are also at risk of dying or being permanently scarred by preventable diseases.

As I understand it, the only way you can get shingles is if you have previously had chicken pox. The chicken pox virus resides forever in the body and if it is triggered out of dormancy it results not in another case of chicken pox but instead you get shingles. My appointment for that vaccine cannot come soon enough!

Yes, I know this - it's like a little ticking time bomb! Hubby got shingles in college, younger daughter got shingles when she was only 11 years old.

 

[cobright]

In California, there was an outbreak of whooping cough and 100% of the children who caught it had been vaccinated.

The 2010 outbreak, and it was 81% of cases were vaccinated kids. (https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/54/12/1730/452864)

Makes you wonder how effective or, in this case ineffective, the vaccines are. If the vaccines worked, why are children who have been vaccinated getting the diseases?

Scientists wonder about this too and have a lot if insight and answers. The paper I linked explains a lot of the reason that pertussis vaccination is not terribly effective for 8-12 year olds in particular.

The vaccine court has paid out over 119 million dollars this year to those injured by vaccines.

And will pay out that much again before the year is out. Even so, we're identifying vaccines as a risk that affects about 1 in 1000000 people every year. Currently measles affects about the same number (a little higher but for the ease of discussion...) so presently the risk of getting injured by a measles vaccine or getting g measles is about 2 in 1000000.


Prior to the measles vaccine the risk of getting injured by it was 0 in 1000000. The risk of getting measles however was 3000 in 1000000. If my math is right that makes a combined risk of 3000 for every 1000000 people.

That's the risk profile. As more and more people decide against vaccinating this disease, the risk profile slides more and more (mostly for the unvaccinated but also for babies and immunocompromised) to the one we had in the 1950s.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The 2010 outbreak, and it was 81% of cases were vaccinated kids. (https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/54/12/1730/452864)

I could be wrong but I believe they are talking about the outbreak in Feb (I believe that was when) this year. All the kids in that outbreak were vaccinated though it was already explained by another poster the details.

 

[ronandannette]

What exactly happened to you and your children when you all got vaccinated?




Her grandchildren are also at risk of dying or being permanently scarred by preventable diseases.



Yes, I know this - it's like a little ticking time bomb! Hubby got shingles in college, younger daughter got shingles when she was only 11 years old.

I will NEVER understand why the shingles vaccine isn't available to younger people. I've know 5 or 6 young people (teens and young adults) that have contracted it. It might be different in the States but in our provincial health region it simply is not administered to anyone under 50.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

As I understand it, the only way you can get shingles is if you have previously had chicken pox.

My sister had shingles at the very young age of 7, never had the chicken pox.

She's been in discussion with her doctors as to whether she needs the shingles shot or not.

I had the original (Zostavax) vaccine (and it really hurt). Of course, now I'm being told I should get the new Shingrix vaccine (2 doses) for better immunity.

 

[Disneylover99]

My sister had shingles at the very young age of 7, never had the chicken pox.

She's been in discussion with her doctors as to whether she needs the shingles shot or not.

I had the original (Zostavax) vaccine (and it really hurt). Of course, now I'm being told I should get the new Shingrix vaccine (2 doses) for better immunity.

I just got the Shingrix vaccine 3 days ago. Dang, my arm is still killing me.