Thoughts on Measles outbreak?

[Hrhpd]

Wish I had known about vaccine dangers before we had our kids vaccinated. Both my husband and I discourage our children from having our grandchildren vaccinated.

Per the CDC:

Measles
Odds of Hospitalization - 1 in 4
Odds of ear infection (can be severe enough to lead to deafness) - 1 in 13
Odds of contracting Encephalitis: 1 in 1000
Odds of dying - 1 in 10,000 estimated cases or 1 in 1000 actual reported cases

Odds of being vaccine injured: less than 1 in a million

Which odds do you want to bet on?

Oh, and in your case, you might want to add that 67 out of 100 smokers will eventually die from smoking related diseases. Even worse odds than getting a vaccine.

 

[Geoff_M]

I just got the Shingrix vaccine 3 days ago. Dang, my arm is still killing me.

A few years ago my Dad was offered the Shingles vaccine at a routine medical appointment and opted to decline due to the cost. A couple of months later he got Shingles. He said not opting for the vaccine was one of the stupidest moves of his life. He said his back and chest felt like they were on fire for about two weeks straight... night and day.

 

[Disneylover99]

A few years ago my Dad was offered the Shingles vaccine at a routine medical appointment and opted to decline due to the cost. A couple of months later he got Shingles. He said not opting for the vaccine was one of the stupidest moves of his life. He said his back and chest felt like they were on fire for about two weeks straight... night and day.

That’s why I got the vaccination. I know too many people who have had shingles and it wasn’t pretty. I can deal with this arm pain. It’s less then nothing compared to Shingles.

 

[Geoff_M]

Per the CDC:

Measles
Odds of Hospitalization - 1 in 4
Odds of contracting Encephalitis: 1 in 1000
Odds of dying - 1 in 10,000 estimated cases or 1 in 1000 actual reported cases

Odds of being vaccine injured: less than 1 in a million

Which odds do you want to bet on?

You're also missing another major complication of Measles: ear infections 1 in 13. At times, they are so severe that they result in significant permanent hearing loss or deafness. One of my Grandfathers had to wear hearing aids in both of his ears his whole life because of serious hearing loss from childhood Measles. I'll have to see if I can find it, but I recently came across data that said that the introduction of the MMR vaccine in the US resulted in a 30% drop of the number persons with profound hearing loss or deafness versus levels from before the vaccine's introduction. Prior to the vaccines release in 1965, there were around 4 million REPORTED cases of Measles each year.

Update: Here's one example of the type of data I was referring to.

Regarding the Measles part of the MMR:

Hearing loss is a common complication of measles infection; prior to widespread vaccination, measles accounted for 5 to 10% of cases of profound hearing loss in the United States (McKenna, 1997).

And for Rubella (AKA German Measles):

In areas without routine rubella vaccination, congenital rubella remains a common cause of severe to profound bilateral SNHL (sensorineural hearing loss). In a recent Brazilian study, congenital rubella was thought to be the cause of hearing loss in 32% of patients with deafness (da Silva, Queiros, & Lima, 2006). Following the institution of a “school girl” vaccination program in Western Australia, the rate of congenital rubella syndrome dropped to 0% in vaccinated mothers.

 

[sk!mom]

My DH had a Stem Cell transplant in 2012 and cannot be revaccinated for MMR so this makes me mad.

 

[mnrose]

Some facts for ya:
https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html

Gee, one in a million. The poster concerned about vaccine injury must be REALLY unlucky to believe they have a 1 in a million chance in being injured by a vaccine. 1 in a MILLION. Your chances of dying in car accident are something like 1 in 100. If they are concerned about 1 in a million, I sure hope they never get in a car.

 

[Katie Dawn]

The way I understand it, the only way you can get shingles is if you have previously had chicken pox. The chicken pox virus resides forever in the body and if it is triggered out of dormancy it results not in another case of chicken pox but instead you get shingles. My appointment for that vaccine cannot come soon enough!

This is my understanding as well. I never caught chicken pox as a child and I was in high school when the vaccine came out so I got it. (Realized a couple years ago they are now recommending adults get a 2nd one, so I did that.) So anyway, it sounds like I am not going to ever have to worry about getting Shingles!!! As we've seen from this thread, not being at risk of Shingles is BIG!

Isn't that amazing?! Way To Go Vaccines!

 

[mnrose]

Why do you suppose measles had been eradicated for so many years? What is it you think that has eliminated polio if not vaccines?

Polio's not so bad! Vaccines can hurt me! I'd rather be left paralyzed from polio than risk a 1 in a million chance of being injured by a vaccine! (Very tongue in cheek, in case someone is reading this without reading the whole thread).

 

[Hrhpd]

You're also missing another major complication of Measles: ear infections 1 in 13. At times, they are so severe that they result in significant permanent hearing loss or deafness. One of my Grandfathers had to wear hearing aids in both of his ears his whole life because of serious hearing loss from childhood Measles. I'll have to see if I can find it, but I recently came across data that said that the introduction of the MMR vaccine in the US resulted in a 30% drop of the number persons with profound hearing loss or deafness versus levels from before the vaccine's introduction. Prior to the vaccines release in 1965, there were around 4 million REPORTED cases of Measles each year.

Thanks, added it

 

[wenrob]

The thing is, it took me less than a second to find that and it was the very FIRST thing to come up which leads me to believe that people who don’t believe it are purposely skipping it in favor of what they want to believe.

Facts!?! Who cares about actual facts?!?

No. There is no legit debate. The question is scientifically settled. And no. You don't want debate. You don't want a genuine give and take discussion because if you were open to that, you'd understand the question is scientifically settled. What you want is a pseudo debate where your anti vax propaganda is not subjected to any real scrutiny.



There you go again with totally meaningless and unimportant facts.

Some highlights for those that don't want to link.

Almost 80% of all compensation awarded by the VICP comes as result of a negotiated settlement between the parties in which HHS has not concluded, based upon review of the evidence, that the alleged vaccine(s) caused the alleged injury
Attorneys are eligible for reasonable attorneys’ fees, whether or not the petitioner is awarded compensation by the Court
This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, 1 individual was compensated.

And if you dig deeper into this data, it isn't the vaccine itself most of the time that is an issue. It is bad administration, or an allergic reaction to an ingredient in the vaccine.

You need to get your information from the actual department, not the internet rumor mill. 1 person for every MILLION doses of vaccines was compensated. One in a million was injured. And that does not even go into the severity of the injury. ONE IN A MILLION odds are incredibly good odds that vaccines are safe.

And to top it off, 80% of the petitions filed were settlements where no determination was made that the vaccine was the actual cause of the injury. So, the rate of injury for a vaccine is even smaller than 1 in a million.

You quote $119 million dollars has been paid out already. Not sure where you are getting those numbers, but if you read below, some of that money is going to lawyers as some lawyers get compensated whether or not a petition is paid out. So, not all of that money was for actual vaccine injuries.

Your grandchildren have an astronomical better chance of dying from one of the diseases than they have for being vaccine injured. You are doing your grandchildren a huge disservice by encouraging their parents not to vaccinate, especially with false knowledge.

I know this link was posted above, however, my guess is antivaxxers won't click on real science, so I thought I would just post the pertinent parts here.

This is as of April 1, 2019
https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html

What does it mean to be awarded compensation?
Being awarded compensation for a petition does not necessarily mean that the vaccine caused the alleged injury. In fact:

• Almost 80% of all compensation awarded by the VICP comes as result of a negotiated settlement between the parties in which HHS has not concluded, based upon review of the evidence, that the alleged vaccine(s) caused the alleged injury.
• Attorneys are eligible for reasonable attorneys’ fees, whether or not the petitioner is awarded compensation by the Court, if certain minimal requirements are met. In those circumstances, attorneys are paid by the VICP directly. By statute, attorneys may not charge any other fee, including a contingency fee, for his or her services in representing a petitioner in the VICP.

How many petitions have been awarded compensation?
According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2017 over 3.4 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 6,253 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 4,291 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, 1 individual was compensated.

Gee, one in a million. The poster concerned about vaccine injury must be REALLY unlucky to believe they have a 1 in a million chance in being injured by a vaccine. 1 in a MILLION. Your chances of dying in car accident are something like 1 in 100. If they are concerned about 1 in a million, I sure hope they never get in a car.

 

[mnrose]

Now this approach actually bugs me quite a bit. NOT the part where a doctor refuses to treat patients unless they are vaccinated - that is his right and I'm fine with it. But the above wording makes him sound like a petulant tyrant and I wonder where it ends? There's a difference between trust and unconditional obedience. If I want to try diet and exercise instead of meds for high blood pressure or prefer to try physiotherapy rather than surgery for a skeletal issue am I dumped then too? Personally I require my medical professionals to be open to discussions of my concerns and respect that my medical decisions ultimately rest with me.

As I understand it, the only way you can get shingles is if you have previously had chicken pox. The chicken pox virus resides forever in the body and if it is triggered out of dormancy it results not in another case of chicken pox but instead you get shingles. My appointment for that vaccine cannot come soon enough!

Then perhaps I used poor wording. This same pediatrician was also very willing to discuss options for treatment, so long as there was SOME rational, scientific basis for the choice. He was not a "here's a drug" kind of doctor. But, on vaccines, his rule was pretty cut and dried. Because unless your kid fell into that RARE category of having a condition which precluded vaccines, sorry, there is no debate. We lived at the time in a county where being anti-vax was what the "cool kids" were doing, and he had no patience for it, which in the end, I respected. If it came to should we test for this or that, or use this or that drug, he was very open to discussions and laying out options.

 

[mnrose]

I will NEVER understand why the shingles vaccine isn't available to younger people. I've know 5 or 6 young people (teens and young adults) that have contracted it. It might be different in the States but in our provincial health region it simply is not administered to anyone under 50.

Insurance will not cover it, generally, when you are less than 50. You'd be paying entirely OOP, and that would be pretty expensive. Certainly, you are free here to get it you'll just pay.

 

[ronandannette]

Insurance will not cover it, generally, when you are less than 50. You'd be paying entirely OOP, and that would be pretty expensive. Certainly, you are free here to get it you'll just pay.

For reasons I can't even explain I am petrified of shingles. I would pay - please let me pay!! My DH got Zostravax 10 years ago when he was in his mid-50's. I begged our doctor to prescribe it for me as well (I was in my early 40's at the time) but she refused.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Odds of ear infection (can be severe enough to lead to deafness) - 1 in 13

Shoot, I forgot! My brother has 100% hearing loss in one ear, from measles (we were all born pre-MMR, but were vaccinated for everything as it became available.) Although it's fun to talk about him literally behind his back on the correct side .

Gee, one in a million. The poster concerned about vaccine injury must be REALLY unlucky to believe they have a 1 in a million chance in being injured by a vaccine. 1 in a MILLION. Your chances of dying in car accident are something like 1 in 100. If they are concerned about 1 in a million, I sure hope they never get in a car.

Better chance of dating a supermodel, dating a millionaire, even being in a plane crash .https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...all-jackpot/pq0VeHn5PpAWkJhRP310nK/story.html

 

[pooh'smate]

I am anxiously awaiting the shingles vaccine. I am to young right now but I am terrified I am going get shingles. I had chicken pox when I was 2 1/2 months old. My mom has no idea where I contracted them from because no one she knew had chicken pox. The doctor told I had one of the worse cases he had ever seen. I even had them in my throat and inside my ears.

 

[kylieh]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in the thread, but the whole vaccine causing autism has been disproven in many many studies. It never did cause it. Part 2, I've seen a baby die because of whooping cough. The baby wasn't old enough to be vaccinated. And part 3, at least in Australia when you turn 14 you're old enough to get medical attention without your parent's permission, no cost. The 14+ year olds are going by themselves to see their doctor to get the immunisations they missed out on when their parents where ignorant enough to believe that vaccines cause more problems than they solve.

And even if it was true, which it isn't. To the anti-vaxxers: you're saying a dead child from not being vaccinated is better than a child with autism. I shake my head at you. Measles kills.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I will NEVER understand why the shingles vaccine isn't available to younger people. I've know 5 or 6 young people (teens and young adults) that have contracted it. It might be different in the States but in our provincial health region it simply is not administered to anyone under 50.

I assumed it was a supply issue - like there isn't enough of it made for everyone, so it's given to those with highest risk.

 

[billlaurie]

I assumed it was a supply issue - like there isn't enough of it made for everyone, so it's given to those with highest risk.

Although younger people can get it, shingles is predominantly a consequence of aging and the decline of the immune system. Once you have chicken pox, the virus stays with you, hanging out in certain nerve cells. As you age, it can manifest again as the extremely painful shingles. Shingrix is FDA approved for 50 and older. You would probably have to move a mountain to get your insurance to pay for it if you are under 50.

 

[billlaurie]

An interesting point for all the antivaxers reading this thread. If you had chickenpox and get shingles, you can pass it along to your unvaccinated children in the form of chickenpox. They can then give that "gift" to their own children if they stay on the same antiscience path. You can also give that gift to immune compromised individuals who cannot be vaccinated.

 

[cobright]

I could be wrong but I believe they are talking about the outbreak in Feb (I believe that was when) this year.

Ah yes. My bad. The Harvard-Westlake school. It was part of a larger outbreak category in the county.