those NOT vaccinating against H1N1 - tell me why

[kristilew]

Were those safety studies or efficacy studies??? I believe those were efficacy studies done to insure that the new master-seed would trigger a sufficient immune response (titer) in humans and they were not ordered because of safety concerns. I don't believe that the seasonal flu vaccine for 2009 required the creation of new master-seeds for the antigens.... but I could be wrong.

Good question, although frankly I think any drug carries some risk, and if it's efficacy hasn't been substantiated, why take that risk? I don't know enough about the exact tests that were being bid on (pesky confidentiality issues) to know which they were for, only that DH felt the drug is "unproven" at this point. I do know that there have been efficacy tests that have also turned up safety issues in the past, but you make a good point as to there being a difference.

 

["Got Disney"]

Although you asked only for people who are not vaccinating, I HAVE to correct a your misstatement.

This is NOT a new vaccine. This vaccine is produced in the exact same method that has been used for over 20 years now for the seasonal flu, and is litterally indentical to it.

And since you are pregnant, please reconsider your decision. Pregnant women, even if they are healthy, are much more likely than the general population to develop severe disease. They are four times more likely to be hospitalized, and have a unusually high death rate.

What!!! what do you mean by identical to the old one? Please explain....

and I have been a L&D nurse for 28 years and you telling/scarring this patient to get a vaccine(safe or not safe) that she has not yet possibly discussed with her OB is a bad call for you to make. You as a DOC should no better! that is if you really are a Doc.

To the poster...it is important that you discuss this with your OB. We have no idea about your Pregnancy, your past history of Pregnancies, diseases in your family, your Blood pressure, history of Pneumonia, Asthma and so on. Make an appointment with her/him to discuss your concerns.

That is where you need to ask....not here on the board The board can be a scarry place.

And congrats by the way

 

[Geoff_M]

Good question, although frankly I think any drug carries some risk, and if it's efficacy hasn't been substantiated, why take that risk?

But the studies did substantiate the efficacy. In fact the results were so positive that the FDA concluded that only one dose would be needed for the H1N1 vaccine per person instead of the two that their paper computations said they'd need.

 

[Va-bear]

...I don't plan on getting it for myself or my two oldest children because we are not in the high risk group.

.... Oh and I don't have young child and I am not pregnant. My boys are 10 and 15

For the record, not trying to change anyones mind, but do want to help get out info that's specific to H1N1. Teens ARE in the priority group (ALL young people up to age 24 are in the group):

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/acip.htm

....another oddity to this flu is how many teenagers have died, which is very abnormal.

 

[drag n' fly]

We are not getting it. Ds6 had a confirmed case of it in June and ds15 just got over it so we have had plenty of exposure. I cannot get it due to my egg allergy.

 

[Becky2005]

As I was reading this I just got an e-mail from our school district -- according to the public health deparment, I couldn't get the vaccination even if I wanted to. I don't fall into the correct group!

They recently held a couple clinics but they have now run out of the vaccine it appears & have cancelled the next 2 clinics. So as to make sure those that need it get the vaccination, they are now going to appointment only based for when the next batch comes in.

I'm over 24 and don't have any medical conditions that would warrant it.

I think part of the problem is they aren't keeping real numbers, so have no clue how many *really* have this flu. It's boiled down to if you have *any* symptoms that seem to be flu related -- you have the H1N1 flu, even if you don't. At least around here for the schools, that is how it's working.

 

[monkeybug]

This confuses me then -- wouldn't the shot be useless if that's the case? I thought the point of a vaccine is so that your body produces the antibodies to fight the disease. IF a pregnant body isn't going to produce antibodies in the first place, why the heck are you injecting yourself with something that is suppose to make you produce the antibodies? OR is the shot, the pre-made antibodies?

Now I'm completely confused with the above statement. I thought the whole point of vaccinations was so that your body would be exposed a bit to the disease & therefore make antibodies for such disease so that if you DID get the disease it would automatically fight it off. Obviously, I'm clueless then as to what the point of vaccines are if that is not the case. That's how I was always taught it.

You are right. Vaccines trigger an immune response from your body that builds antibodies against the illness. They are not pre-made antibodies.
Pregnant woman of course still produce antibodies, and can fight off the flu. They are just at a higher risk for developing complications, especially it seems with h1n1. I think that still most pregnant woman would fair just fine, but why risk it if you don't have to?
They say that being pregnant is similar to being immuno suppressed, I guess because of how taxing it can be on the body overall.

 

[Darsa]

For the record, not trying to change anyones mind, but do want to help get out info that's specific to H1N1. Teens ARE in the priority group (ALL young people up to age 24 are in the group):

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/acip.htm

....another oddity to this flu is how many teenagers have died, which is very abnormal.

I don't mind telling you that this scares the H-E-double-toothpicks out of me!

 

[kpm76]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";34116695]What!!! what do you mean by identical to the old one? Please explain....

and I have been a L&D nurse for 28 years and you telling/scarring this patient to get a vaccine(safe or not safe) that she has not yet possibly discussed with her OB is a bad call for you to make. You as a DOC should no better! that is if you really are a Doc.

To the poster...it is important that you discuss this with your OB. We have no idea about your Pregnancy, your past history of Pregnancies, diseases in your family, your Blood pressure, history of Pneumonia, Asthma and so on. Make an appointment with her/him to discuss your concerns.

That is where you need to ask....not here on the board The board can be a scarry place.

And congrats by the way [/QUOTE]

It's not like we can go to 7-11 and buy the vaccine and administer it ourselves. Since the OB will likely be the one to administer the vaccine I am sure he or she has done their due diligence regarding recommendations they are making to their patients. I highly doubt that the poster will be influenced one way or another by what she reads on a Disney message board Probably no need to make an additional appt with the OB since most pregnant women are seeing their OB on at least a monthly basis and discussing the pros and cons of receiving the vaccine.

 

[Va-bear]

I don't mind telling you that this scares the H-E-double-toothpicks out of me!

...me too...

 

[Deb in IA]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";34116695]What!!! what do you mean by identical to the old one? Please explain....

and I have been a L&D nurse for 28 years and you telling/scarring this patient to get a vaccine(safe or not safe) that she has not yet possibly discussed with her OB is a bad call for you to make. You as a DOC should no better! that is if you really are a Doc.

[/QUOTE]

Scared is better than dead.

But INFORMED is better than either.

And you, as a nurse, if you really are a nurse, should KNOW (not "no", as in your post) that too.

 

[Deb in IA]

They say that being pregnant is similar to being immuno suppressed, I guess because of how taxing it can be on the body overall.

Also, most of the deaths occured in women in the third trimester, when the lungs are compressed due to the large uterine size.

 

["Got Disney"]

Scared is better than dead.

But INFORMED is better than either.

And you, as a nurse, if you really are a nurse, should KNOW (not "no", as in your post) that too.

your last statement has convinced me that you are not a M.D....you may be a Doctor....But not an M.D

Better scared than dead..... No Doctor that I know would ever ever state that remark on a board.....not to mention to a pregnant woman they have no idea about.

The fact that you are posting this to a woman you do not know that is pregnant telling her that if she does not get the shot she will die....is

The Docs I know would have done what I did....referred her back to her OB....

I have no problem that you trust this vaccine. I have no problem with anyone that trusts it.....but telling them that it is safe is different than telling them that you feel it is safe....that is to different issues. I have no problem with you stating that you feel it is safe....but you are not doing that. You are stating it is safe....and you have no real research to back that up. Heck the researchers themselves are not sure. And that is where the problem lies....and why so many are not sure about the vaccine.

 

[Deb in IA]

Where did I say that if she did not get the shot she would die??????


Do NOT put words in my mouth.

What I did write in my first post is FACTS. From the CDC:

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=104180

A CDC analysis shows that pregnant women are more likely than the general population to develop severe disease after infection with the pandemic H1N1 swine flu virus. They are four times more likely to be hospitalized, with an unusually high death rate.

And yes, PREVENTING death is exactly why I AM a doctor.

 

[lukenick1]

 

[Va-bear]

'Got Disney' there is MUCH information and evidence that GENERALLY speaking pregnant women are at higher risk than others.... Deb never said she knew this person, nor did she say she should take the shot or die. She is stating a fact about pregnancy and using an expression that many people use that means we'd rather have good information to form our ideas with instead of just guessing and being sorry later....

From the CDC:
Pregnant women are at higher risk for severe complications and death from influenza, including both 2009 H1N1 influenza and seasonal influenza. Changes in the immune, respiratory and cardiovascular systems that occur during pregnancy result in pregnant women being more severely affected by certain pathogens, including influenza.

Postpartum women, who are in transition to normal immune, cardiac, and respiratory function, should be considered to be at increased risk of influenza-related complications up to 2 weeks postpartum (including following pregnancy loss).

also:
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/PregnantH1N1Flu/
http://answers.flu.gov/search/results?q=pregnant

I also know lots of doctors (MD and otherwise) who ARE getting the vaccine - that proves nothing, just as knowing ones who arent proves nothing. For a study to prove something it has to be scientific (statistically significant number, blinded, etc. etc.)

 

[fortheluvofpooh]

You are totally welcome. I just want people to have the right information.

As for why it is being called "new" - I think this is because the H1N1 virus itself is "new" - in other words, a newer strain of Influenza A that first appeared around February, 2009 and has been spreading ever since.

And another misconception about thimerosol - it is ONLY contained in the multi-dose vials. If you get either the nasal or injection as a single dose syringe, there is no thimerosol and no mercury.

SO if you have to get the multiple dose then there IS mercury in it. According to our cdc paper that was sent home from school, ages 10 and under must have that version of the vaccine IF we choose to vaccinate. Now I know enough to know that there is more mercury in your tap water than what is in the vaccine, but your tap water isn't injected into you blood stream. UGH. decisions decisions.

 

[MizTink]

SO if you have to get the multiple dose then there IS mercury in it. According to our cdc paper that was sent home from school, ages 10 and under must have that version of the vaccine IF we choose to vaccinate. Now I know enough to know that there is more mercury in your tap water than what is in the vaccine, but your tap water isn't injected into you blood stream. UGH. decisions decisions.

oh i know.....it is so hard to decide what the "right" thing to do is.
can't we all just go to bed and hide under the blankets 'til it's all over???

 

[MickeyMomTo2]

SO if you have to get the multiple dose then there IS mercury in it. According to our cdc paper that was sent home from school, ages 10 and under must have that version of the vaccine IF we choose to vaccinate. Now I know enough to know that there is more mercury in your tap water than what is in the vaccine, but your tap water isn't injected into you blood stream. UGH. decisions decisions.

Not so. You could get 2 single dose shots at different times. Having to have two shots doesn't have anything to do with what kind of shot you get. What matters is whether the provider has single dose shots or multi-dose vials. "Multi-dose" relates to the vial being used for more than on person. It doesn't have anything to do with whether the person needs more than one shot. I only have to have one dose, and mine was a single dose syringe because that's what my health department had. My kids have to have two shots, but their first shot was also a single dose syringe. What they get the second time around will depend on what's available.

 

["Got Disney"]

Scared is better than dead.

But INFORMED is better than either.

And you, as a nurse, if you really are a nurse, should KNOW (not "no", as in your post) that too.

Where did I say that if she did not get the shot she would die??????


Do NOT put words in my mouth.

What I did write in my first post is FACTS. From the CDC:

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=104180




And yes, PREVENTING death is exactly why I AM a doctor.

No words put in your mouth....you posted it on your post see above....Scared is better than dead.....

One thing i have learned in all my years of being a L&D nurse is you never ever give advice to someone that is pregnant. Mostly when it comes to vaccines or any meds......I have ran across many woman that have had the flu during Pregnancy and the main thing that is worried about is Dehydration from Vomiting. In 90% of the cases that I have treated in the Hospital from the flu have been due to this.

And keep in mind that there are 100's of flu viruses every year. The vaccines only target the strain that they think will be the worst one. You can still get the seasonal flu shot and the H1N1 and still get a flu virus.

Again I will refer this person/poster back to her OB and let them decide what is a good call for her. That is who she needs to talk with about the complications of getting it or not getting it during her pregnancy.

Not us.