This is why I'm so against illegal immigration

[LauraR]

I just wrote emails to my senators at www.senate.gov saying that I strongly disagreed with granting citizenship to the 11 million illegal immigrants that are here already.

I hadn't thought about the sticky wicket of the many illegals who have given birth to automatic citizens while in this country. Can't really split up families, but maybe they should just be granted extended worker status. I still don't think they should be rewarded for breaking the laws of this country.

I'd also like our government to present the president of Mexico with a bill for the services we provide to 11 million of his citizens.

 

[Rajah]

First of all, as a daughter of LEGAL immigrants, who have since become naturalized American citizens and value their citizenship greatly, I too, am very offended by the ILLEGAL immigrants who now claim this country as their home.

That said, the fact is that someone left the door open for the last 50 years, and now, there are 12 MILLION illegals here. We cannot undo what has been done. The problem should have been addressed when it first started. Now, these people have children and grandchildren that US-born citizens. We cannot, logistically, send all 12 million back.

So, what to do with them??

We need to find a way to MAKE the ones that are already here citizens, to make them pay taxes and support our government.

And, more importantly, we need to make our borders secure, to staunch this continued flood of illegals . . . before the illegals outnumber the citizens.

Well said.

There's too many to send back. But something *does* need to be done. There needs to be a way to give them a chance to either stay here and become full citizens (and maybe pay a fine for having been here illegally?) or to go back. Maybe give a 1-2 year "grace period" where everyone here illegally has the opportunity to become a real citizen, and after that *then* start deporting those who don't become citizens and pay the fine?

I don't know.

I'm against totally sending everyone back, because if someone is here illegally I feel there is something that they must have been running from that was pretty bad to make them want to come here. That's part of why I think an opportunity should be given for them to become citizens.

But I'm also against illegal immigration.

It's a very complex problem.

 

[Charade]

Yes, please write. I just did.


http://www.house.gov/writerep/

I just did too. Here's what I sent my Rep.

Mr. Fitzpatrick,

I'm writing to you as one of your constituents to express my concerns with the immigration issue that's all over the news today. I know
it's impossible, impractical and in some cases immoral to deport the millions of illegal aliens pouring across our borders yearly. Particularly from the south.
I implore you to take a stand and do what's right for Americans and foreigners who attempt to come into the US by legal means by supporting
a new law that will make it harder for people to come into the US illegally and have harsher punishment for US companies hiring these people.
The prevailing argument for the continued allowing of illegal aliens to come and stay in the US is because they do jobs that no American will take.
I have yet to see any reports supporting that claim. I would be that if American companies couldn't get the cheap labor from the south, they would be
forced to pay more for those jobs. Of course this would lead to higher prices for some of the products and services these companies produce. This
is a price we all should be willing to accept if we want to control the flow of people blatantly breaking the law by crossing our borders in the dark of night.
I suppose that with the reduced tax burden from the social/health/education services the illegal aliens place on the system would certainly offset any
increases in the prices of products/services they provide.

I do not wish harm for them, I just want them to respect our laws. It is OUR country, not theirs.

Lastly, I'm appalled by the support given to these people by some elected officials. Both here and in Mexico. They are in essence supporting criminal activities.

Thank you for time,
XXXXXXXXXXX

 

[VickiVM]

AAAAGGGHHH - (Throwing myself into the fire).

I am Hispanic - born in Texas, parents born in Texas. I have seen the poorest of the poor (beyond our perception on poverty we see here in US) in Mexico, and not just the borders. Children dying of malnutrition and dysentery. No public education beyond 8th grade. Survival is the reason Mexicans migrate to US. By and large they don't want to take anything from "us" (seeing that this is now becoming an 'us against them' debate). They just want to survive and thrive as families. Why the hell else would they risk death to cross our borders?

I think it is absolutely prudent for us to become creative in immigration reform. And if you think sending back, what is the number - like 11 million - Mexicans (because that's who we're really ticked off about) back to Mexico won't affect our economy, then think again. They drive retail business in border states. And be realistic - when was the last time you heard a born and bred American moaning and groaning because he so wanted to work in the orchards, or at the factory?

True criminals who have commited various crimes (and I'm not refering to their residence status) should be deported. But those who are here working diligently, contributing to the American economy ought to be given a chance to do so legally. I believe we can step up to this challenge and be the generous nation we pride ourselves in being.

I must admit, I don't know the process of immigrating legally, but I would bet it ain't that easy or else they would have been doing it all along.

Truth be told, I'm personally hurt by so many hatefully negative responses I've read. I don't know why - I'm totally legal and I don't even know anyone here illegally. But I can see this kind of 'they-need-to-go-back' mindset only getting worse and becoming more about race and less about the problems that our political leaders should have been working on decades ago.

So flame away. American Idol is on anyway.

 

[ChrisnSteph]

AAAAGGGHHH - (Throwing myself into the fire).

I am Hispanic - born in Texas, parents born in Texas. I have seen the poorest of the poor (beyond our perception on poverty we see here in US) in Mexico, and not just the borders. Children dying of malnutrition and dysentery. No public education beyond 8th grade. Survival is the reason Mexicans migrate to US. By and large they don't want to take anything from "us" (seeing that this is now becoming an 'us against them' debate). They just want to survive and thrive as families. Why the hell else would they risk death to cross our borders?

I understand all of that. However, why are they so proud of their own country that let them down? Why come here, proudly waving the Mexico flags and demanding rights? Why can't they all learn to speak english? Many people come here to give their kids a better life, and you know what happens? They drop out of school because gangbanging is much more productive. Please don't tell me that this doesn't happen, because I went to school with these people, I grew up in gang infested areas, and I dated the son of an illegal immigrant for 4 years. The majority of his family were illegal. Most of his illegal cousins and his sisters dropped out of school in jr. high, and his mother took advantage of every free thing social services offered. When someone in his family would get deported, somehow they'd be back in less than a week or two. I know that not every illegal immigrant is like this, but the reality is that so many of them are. That's where the anger and resentment stems from.

 

[Tiziminchac]

I was just watching tv and there was a Senator from Alabama (I think) who made a wonderful point. Isn't ironic that we have all of these illegal immigrants out on the streets protesting the fact that we might actually enforce our laws? Or something to that effect. We need to secure our borders and stop the flow of illegals into our country. I think if immigrants can't get with the program (pay taxes) they should go home! Why don't they start protesting the dumpy conditions in their home country? If the illegals/protesters were waiving the American flag and hollering "Viva America" I might have some sympathy for them. It gives me the impression that they really only want a free ride. I don't care if they are hard workers. I'm a hard worker too. And on top of it I pay my taxes. After all, someone's got to pay for the schools, hospitals, highways, streetlights, stop signs, etc., etc., etc., and it isn't the millions of illegals who skirt the system.

 

[Minnie824]

AAAAGGGHHH - (Throwing myself into the fire).

I think it is absolutely prudent for us to become creative in immigration reform. And if you think sending back, what is the number - like 11 million - Mexicans (because that's who we're really ticked off about) back to Mexico won't affect our economy, then think again. They drive retail business in border states. And be realistic - when was the last time you heard a born and bred American moaning and groaning because he so wanted to work in the orchards, or at the factory?

You know what...in America, there are a ton of legal people here without jobs lately. I think alot of them would be grateful to get a job in a factory, with insurance, or in an orchard. The problem is, they would get paid next to nothing and aren't willing to accept that. If the illegal immigrants did not have those jobs, the factories and orchards would be forced to pay more for legal americans to do those jobs. I don't think our economy would suffer...I think it would benefit from this!

 

[CheshireVal]

But those who are here working diligently, contributing to the American economy ought to be given a chance to do so legally. I believe we can step up to this challenge and be the generous nation we pride ourselves in being.

They may be contributing a bit to the economy, but not to the social programs (schools, health care) that they are leeching off of here. Until they pay taxes, I really just have no tolerance for them whatsoever. My generosity has been spread a little too thin, unfortunately.

 

[VickiVM]

I understand all of that. However, why are they so proud of their own country that let them down? Why come here, proudly waving the Mexico flags and demanding rights? Why can't they all learn to speak english? Many people come here to give their kids a better life, and you know what happens? They drop out of school because gangbanging is much more productive. Please don't tell me that this doesn't happen, because I went to school with these people, I grew up in gang infested areas, and I dated the son of an illegal immigrant for 4 years. The majority of his family were illegal. Most of his illegal cousins and his sisters dropped out of school in jr. high, and his mother took advantage of every free thing social services offered. When someone in his family would get deported, somehow they'd be back in less than a week or two. I know that not every illegal immigrant is like this, but the reality is that so many of them are. That's where the anger and resentment stems from.

I respect your perspective - but recognize that your anger and resentment is loosely based on this particular situation you're reflecting on. I am no expert by any measure, but I would suspect that "these people" are not the majority of gangbangers. Many of the immigrants try to fly under the radar and don't go after a lot of social services available because of fear of being deported.

I do agree with you that I am confused about the nationalism exhibited. I personally don't see the connection of this and immigration. Perhaps it is simply a symbol of heritage that is recognized and a point of unification. Believe me - I'm no rioter or noisemake. But I see symptoms of what could easily become more raced based and less about how to solve this issue.

After I posted my response, I became a little more ticked that our own government knew this would be coming to a head years ago, but have not made strides towards meaningful reform. And I very pissed at President Fox for not making strides in his own country to stem the migration from his side of the border. (I do have just a little idea of the beaurocracy that goes on in Mexico as I am on the board of a non-profit organization that provides humanitarion aid for a small village in San Luis Potossi, Mexico. It's despicable that families can't even get the government to provide the means to draw clean potable water from a well.)

 

[roger_ramjet]

Can someone explain to me what the process is for becoming a legal immigrant?

It's a bloody pain in the ****, and takes a long time. As others have said, it varies depending on circumstances. Most people apply for a visa, which itself is time consuming and painful and generally takes a few months to sort out. After that, if one wishes to become a resident, one needs to satisfy various criteria. In my case, I married an American citizen, which is basis enough for me to apply for residency. It does require filling out a bunch of forms and spending up to $800 on fees in order to even begin the process, though.

So, it's understandable that many opt out of that process, but as a legal immigrant I resent that there are people out there receiving benefits that I do not necessarily have access to, and I also resent the fact that they do not pay the taxes which pay for those services. All the Mexican flag-waving did nothing to make me feel more benevolent towards them, and in fact I would rather they go back to Mexico and put some effort into fixing the evident problems that exist there instead of bludging off the rest of us.

 

[VickiVM]

You know what...in America, there are a ton of legal people here without jobs lately. I think alot of them would be grateful to get a job in a factory, with insurance, or in an orchard. The problem is, they would get paid next to nothing and aren't willing to accept that. If the illegal immigrants did not have those jobs, the factories and orchards would be forced to pay more for legal americans to do those jobs. I don't think our economy would suffer...I think it would benefit from this!

WalMart could also bring back jobs to America to help it - but it won't happen.

No one is stopping the factory owners, farmers/ranchers from paying higher wages if they wanted to.

 

[VickiVM]

They may be contributing a bit to the economy, but not to the social programs (schools, health care) that they are leeching off of here. Until they pay taxes, I really just have no tolerance for them whatsoever. My generosity has been spread a little too thin, unfortunately.

So what I hear you saying is that if they paid taxes then you would tolerate them or have a different perception of them?

And I'm not trying to be what is the word - snarky (really, I'm just responding to what I'm reading), but there are plenty of red-blooded True Americans that 'leech' off the system. "My Name Is Earl" wouldn't be so damn funny if it weren't so true!

 

[ChrisnSteph]

So what I hear you saying is that if they paid taxes then you would tolerate them or have a different perception of them?

And I'm not trying to be what is the word - snarky (really, I'm just responding to what I'm reading), but there are plenty of red-blooded True Americans that 'leech' off the system.

This is very true - however red-blooded true Americans are legal, and allowed to be here. The thing is, illegal immigrants need to direct their anger and protests toward their own country and government. I think many people would be more compassionate toward illegals if they respected and honored our country more than they do their own. And I'm sure my views have alot to do with the fact that I live in California. Trust me, illegals don't fly under the radar here, as you said earlier. They're not afraid of being deported because they know that risk is very slim. Bottom line, they're here illegally. Demanding rights while waving their own country's flag isn't doing anything to help their cause.

 

[Feralpeg]

It isn't about race. I know that will be thrown around a lot, but I would feel the same way if Canadians were flocking to this country by the millions illegally.

While I am very sorry that living conditions in Mexico are bad, this is not the way to make things better. So, some manage to come here. Don't they care about those left behind? Why aren't the protesting in Mexico to make living conditions better? I'm sure many US companies would be glad to set up shop in Mexico and employ cheap labor, but the Mexican government won't allow it.

So sorry, but the US is not responsible for all the ills of the world.

 

[VickiVM]

This is very true - however red-blooded true Americans are legal, and allowed to be here. The thing is, illegal immigrants need to direct their anger and protests toward their own country and government. I think many people would be more compassionate toward illegals if they respected and honored our country more than they do their own. And I'm sure my views have alot to do with the fact that I live in California. Trust me, illegals don't fly under the radar here, as you said earlier. They're not afraid of being deported because they know that risk is very slim. Bottom line, they're here illegally. Demanding rights while waving their own country's flag isn't doing anything to help their cause.

Just a couple of comments and then Amazing Race is On (I hope).

Leeching is leeching. I am no more willing to support the welfare mom who sleeps around and has 9 kids before the age of 30 and doesn't take care of her family than you are to support the education of a legally born child to an illegal immigrant. Face it - none of us wants to see others get away with free benefits and give nothing back in return, I don't care what the residence status is. That's reasonable.

And I'm in Texas - in San Antonio no less where the Hispanic community is the majority. So we do share very similar concerns.

Bottom line - we (American government) place a priority on spending millions in Iraq than domestic issues here at home. I want a safe border just like the next person. But logistically - finding and sending back 11 million people will NEVER happen. We don't have the resources. So we're left with what we got and must find a way to tackle this much neglected issue of reform.

By the way - it may have been 500,000 protesting in LA and thousands elsewhere, but that still leaves several million that didn't protest. We shouldn't assume that all immigrants feel as militant.

 

[Caradana]

Great points from VickiVM. Well put.

While I am very sorry that living conditions in Mexico are bad, this is not the way to make things better. So, some manage to come here. Don't they care about those left behind? Why aren't the protesting in Mexico to make living conditions better? I'm sure many US companies would be glad to set up shop in Mexico and employ cheap labor, but the Mexican government won't allow it.

Actually ... in reality, the opposite argument is probably true. Have you seen the Friday afternoon lines at Western Unions? Many of them illegally immigrate to earn money primarily to send to family back home. The Mexican economy is in the toilet and will in all likelihood remain in the toilet for my entire lifetime (it takes turbopowered brains and educations and access to capital markets and liquidity to run an economy ... as Greenspan, Bernacke. A reasonable economy is not created via protest), also, their government is notoriously corrupt and prone to invalidating elections. Protesting in Mexico is like protesting against ice in a freezer.
Also, regarding the US companies who set up shop in Mexico - there's an incredible international relations story there. Mexico welcomes them with open arms. Go google "maquiladoras".

My sense on illegal immigration - until there is a reasonable way for undereducated and/or disadvantaged people to immigrate legally and take the crap jobs (a guest worker program), I am hardly going to hold it against the 18-year-old Mexican girl in a mud hut who makes a run for the border in search of a better life.

I speak from two points of view here. One, from the point of view of a good friend, who just paid $4K to immigration attorneys in his ongoing effort to earn legal US citizenship. He's healthy, white, college-educated in a desirable field, and English is his native tongue. He is having an impossibly hard time clearing immigration hurdles. I don't know what planet people are on when they begrudge an illiterate Mexican with a sixth-grade education his run over the border, because all of us (including him) know that guy has no chance at legal immigration.

Second, my own perspective, because the luckiest thing that ever happened to me was to be born to healthy privileged people in the American northeast. My shot at a life that means anything was greatly improved by the luck of my birth, which I did nothing to deserve. I didn't earn this country but I'm proud as hell to live in it, and I am in favor of doing what it takes to keep it safe - but I'm totally unconvinced that a total border shutdown and xenophobia is the right approach. Keep in mind, I wake up every morning and look out the window, and what do I see? "A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles." Then I go home to my mother's and look at the sign my stepfather hung with some humor over the stove, just before he died: "No Irish Need Apply."

We would do well to remember our history

 

[VickiVM]

Great points from VickiVM. Well put.



Actually ... in reality, the opposite argument is probably true. Have you seen the Friday afternoon lines at Western Unions? Many of them illegally immigrate to earn money primarily to send to family back home. The Mexican economy is in the toilet and will in all likelihood remain in the toilet for my entire lifetime (it takes turbopowered brains and educations and access to capital markets and liquidity to run an economy ... as Greenspan, Bernacke. A reasonable economy is not created via protest), also, their government is notoriously corrupt and prone to invalidating elections. Protesting in Mexico is like protesting against ice in a freezer.
Also, regarding the US companies who set up shop in Mexico - there's an incredible international relations story there. Mexico welcomes them with open arms. Go google "maquiladoras".

My sense on illegal immigration - until there is a reasonable way for undereducated and/or disadvantaged people to immigrate legally and take the crap jobs (a guest worker program), I am hardly going to hold it against the 18-year-old Mexican girl in a mud hut who makes a run for the border in search of a better life.

I speak from two points of view here. One, from the point of view of a good friend, who just paid $4K to immigration attorneys in his ongoing effort to earn legal US citizenship. He's healthy, white, college-educated in a desirable field, and English is his native tongue. He is having an impossibly hard time clearing immigration hurdles. I don't know what planet people are on when they begrudge an illiterate Mexican with a sixth-grade education his run over the border, because all of us (including him) know that guy has no chance at legal immigration.

Second, my own perspective, because the luckiest thing that ever happened to me was to be born to healthy privileged people in the American northeast. My shot at a life that means anything was greatly improved by the luck of my birth, which I did nothing to deserve. I didn't earn this country but I'm proud as hell to live in it, and I am in favor of doing what it takes to keep it safe - but I'm totally unconvinced that a total border shutdown and xenophobia is the right approach. Keep in mind, I wake up every morning and look out the window, and what do I see? "A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles." Then I go home to my mother's and look at the sign my stepfather hung with some humor over the stove, just before he died: "No Irish Need Apply."

We would do well to remember our history

Yeah - what Caradana said. You make a very good point about the money sent back to the families in Mexico.

If you've been to the interior of Mexico then you know how hopeless it is for many people. The government is corrupt and hasn't made any real improvements towards reform (unless all the American drug addicts would like to kick their habit and put the drug lords out of business...) It's only natural for these young people to attempt a better life in America. You're not going to tell me that you would gladly stay in Mexico living below poverty level with no hopes of going past 8th grade and eat your beans and maiz and like it. Hell no - you're going to try to find a better life - for yourself and your children. A handful of brave people did the same thing over 200 years ago and they were just as illegal (treasonists).

Or...we could send thousands of volunteers to Mexico to help with various initiatives to improve their lives so they won't want to leave and help create a better country for them...Oh that's right - USA can't be responsible for all the ills in the world.

I know we have issues in the Middle East that need our attention and we want to create a democracy there, yada, yada, yada. But we need to creatively solve our domestic issues now. Imagine if all 12 million of our immigrants were here legitmately and paying taxes. Perhaps we could actually lower the deficit a bit. Who does this hurt?

 

[bsnyder]

Great points from VickiVM. Well put.



Actually ... in reality, the opposite argument is probably true. Have you seen the Friday afternoon lines at Western Unions? Many of them illegally immigrate to earn money primarily to send to family back home. The Mexican economy is in the toilet and will in all likelihood remain in the toilet for my entire lifetime (it takes turbopowered brains and educations and access to capital markets and liquidity to run an economy ... as Greenspan, Bernacke. A reasonable economy is not created via protest), also, their government is notoriously corrupt and prone to invalidating elections. Protesting in Mexico is like protesting against ice in a freezer.
Also, regarding the US companies who set up shop in Mexico - there's an incredible international relations story there. Mexico welcomes them with open arms. Go google "maquiladoras".

My sense on illegal immigration - until there is a reasonable way for undereducated and/or disadvantaged people to immigrate legally and take the crap jobs (a guest worker program), I am hardly going to hold it against the 18-year-old Mexican girl in a mud hut who makes a run for the border in search of a better life.

I speak from two points of view here. One, from the point of view of a good friend, who just paid $4K to immigration attorneys in his ongoing effort to earn legal US citizenship. He's healthy, white, college-educated in a desirable field, and English is his native tongue. He is having an impossibly hard time clearing immigration hurdles. I don't know what planet people are on when they begrudge an illiterate Mexican with a sixth-grade education his run over the border, because all of us (including him) know that guy has no chance at legal immigration.

Second, my own perspective, because the luckiest thing that ever happened to me was to be born to healthy privileged people in the American northeast. My shot at a life that means anything was greatly improved by the luck of my birth, which I did nothing to deserve. I didn't earn this country but I'm proud as hell to live in it, and I am in favor of doing what it takes to keep it safe - but I'm totally unconvinced that a total border shutdown and xenophobia is the right approach. Keep in mind, I wake up every morning and look out the window, and what do I see? "A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles." Then I go home to my mother's and look at the sign my stepfather hung with some humor over the stove, just before he died: "No Irish Need Apply."

We would do well to remember our history

So are you advocating we not have any quotas? We're clearly not enforcing the laws we already have. And a guest worker program would accomplish what, exactly? As I stated earlier, or maybe in another thread (?) I can't see us sending anyone back, especially not when they've been here for years, working as our "guests". It's just never gonna happen. The guest worker program is a horrible idea until we've actually tried to enforce our existing laws and hold businesses accountable for hiring illegals.

And do you really buy the fact that Americans won't do the "crap jobs"? That doesn't square with basic economic reality. Look at coal mining - a crap job if there ever was one, and downright dangerous to boot. But Americans do it, because it pays a heck of a lot better than picking tomatoes.

 

[bsnyder]

A handful of brave people did the same thing over 200 years ago and they were just as illegal (treasonists).

You've made some good points, but not this one.

Yes, our country has a history of welcoming immigrants. But if you look carefully, in the past, large waves of immigrants stopped periodically, either because of more restrictive laws or for unrelated reasons. It gave our country the chance to assimilate those immigrants and gave the newcomers a chance to adapt and embrace their new country. That's not happening now, and hasn't for a long time.

 

[Free4Life11]

I'm sure many US companies would be glad to set up shop in Mexico and employ cheap labor, but the Mexican government won't allow it.

They do allow. I think they are called "maquiladoras" which I just leanred about. They are American companies which set up shop in Mexico for cheap labor. Many have closed because they can pay even less in China.