This is just WRONG! Big vent

[andromedaslove]

FWIW, I totally get where you're coming from, OP. There's absolutely no way I'd be TOLD what to do with my kid when school is not in session. And especially having this come from the PTA--a group that has no actual authority over the subject. You are the parent, you are in charge.

This is not at all about abandoning learning for the summer--I don't think anyone advocates that. It's about how much control we allow institutions to have over our lives. This demand, to me, is over the line, and I wouldn't comply. If they want to try to dish out consequences, bring it on!!!

ITA... my kids haven't even started school yet (although my oldest starts kindergarten this year), but I am already fed up with the schools just from reading what everyone here has gone through. Why do the schools have a right to tell our kids what to do during summer vacation? I understand they don't want kids falling behind on their reading over the 2 month break, but they are crossing a line as far as I am concerned. If I wanted a school that controlled everything my child did on the weekends and holiday I would send him away to boarding school.

I remember being a kid (not all that long ago) and by the end of summer I was so excited to go back to school. I don't know if I would have felt that way if I had been required to do school work during the summer also.

 

[VSL]

VSL I have a question!

What age do kids start school (in general) in the UK? When do they start to learn reading, writing, etc. It used to be that European countries began this later than we do now in the US, but I'm not sure if this is still the case.

Julie

Sorry it's been so long - I've been running and playing the new Tomb Raider game and this thread has really grown!

I believe that the National Curriculum is taught from the age of 5yrs - although I think that Nursery and stuff (half-days, 'play-group' type things, etc.) come before that, starting at about age 3 (I don't know if pre-5yr olds have to attend though - I don't know if it's compulsory).

School is compulsory in the UK up until 16yrs, at which point the individual can choose whether to go to College or enter the work force. After College the individual can choose whether to go to University or enter the workforce.

There are variations of that, but that's pretty much it. College and Uni are open to all age groups (College 16+, Uni 18+ - although there may be a few exceptions).

Anyone wanting to know more about the UK education system could look here.

Also, school systems do differ slightly throughout the UK (although I think that it still pretty much corresponds with the above!).

 

[DaisyD]

The other poster has experience with children and education. Not to mention her own personal experience being educated. I don't see where she was nasty. People can have plenty of experience with children without having given birth or adopting themselves and people are missing out if they are so closed minded to disregard someone because of that.

If someone doesn't have experience with their own children then I really don't put any value into. Sort of like when someone posts on the resorts board and asks if they should stay at the Poly or WL. I see so many say they haven't stayed at the Poly but that one would be the better one. Or they have only stayed at the Poly but think that is the better one. I would only put stock into someone's view that had actuall stayed at both.

 

[VSL]

If someone doesn't have experience with their own children then I really don't put any value into. Sort of like when someone posts on the resorts board and asks if they should stay at the Poly or WL. I see so many say they haven't stayed at the Poly but that one would be the better one. Or they have only stayed at the Poly but think that is the better one. I would only put stock into someone's view that had actuall stayed at both.

I don't think that they are really comparable.

Surely an objective - if idealised - opinion has some worth?

 

[CheshireVal]

If someone doesn't have experience with their own children then I really don't put any value into. Sort of like when someone posts on the resorts board and asks if they should stay at the Poly or WL. I see so many say they haven't stayed at the Poly but that one would be the better one. Or they have only stayed at the Poly but think that is the better one. I would only put stock into someone's view that had actuall stayed at both.

I'm so sorry.

*slowly backs away and bows to mommy gods*

I guess working in a junior high for 8 years doesn't qualify me to know anything about kids.

I'll get back to you in a year or two when I have my own, but I promise my opinion on summer reading won't change.

 

[BethR]

I remember being a kid (not all that long ago) and by the end of summer I was so excited to go back to school. I don't know if I would have felt that way if I had been required to do school work during the summer also.

I remember feeling that way too (and it was a LITTLE while ago .) But I don't know that my kids have ever felt that way. With all of the activities that they participate in the summer (softball and swimming and then when those are over it's time for band camp and cross county practice and lots of other activities - and then when they went to HS - the summer reading assignments were added to this list) I think that my kids found summer to be as busy (or more so) than the school year. Personally, I wish that my kids could have experienced summer as I did.

 

[DaisyD]

I don't think that they are really comparable.

Surely an objective - if idealised - opinion has some worth?

After raising my own children for 23 year and counting I honestly do not think an idealized opinion has any value. While intentions may be good, the advice is not. They may be interesting to hear or read, it's always interesting to hear how perfect non parents are, but the advice is sorely lacking in one thing. Experience.

 

[DaisyD]

I'm so sorry.

*slowly backs away and bows to mommy gods*

I guess working in a junior high for 8 years doesn't qualify me to know anything about kids.

I'll get back to you in a year or two when I have my own, but I promise my opinion on summer reading won't change.

So I take it by your answer that you have no children of your own with which you can share your experience from? Alrightie then.

 

[CheshireVal]

So I take it by your answer that you have no children of your own with which you can share your experience from? Alrightie then.

I spend 9 hours a day with about 100 kids, on average. Then there's my extracurricular clubs that I sponsor after school and on weekends.

But, you're right. I don't go home to a child at night. I still don't see how that invalidates my opinion.

Darn. If I had known that I needed to have my own child to have my opinions valued by DaisyD on the Dis, I would have gotten myself knocked up years ago!

 

[DaisyD]

I spend 9 hours a day with about 100 kids, on average. Then there's my extracurricular clubs that I sponsor after school and on weekends.

But, you're right. I don't go home to a child at night. I still don't see how that invalidates my opinion.

Darn. If I had known that I needed to have my own child to have my opinions valued by DaisyD on the Dis, I would have gotten myself knocked up years ago!

I don't know why you would get so defensive just because some anonymous person on the DIS doesn't value your opinion. I just think having children of your own, especially dealing with them and the schools, has a lot to do with what the OP is talking about. I certainly wouldn't want to go on a thread and tell someone they are wrong for feeling a certain way if I have no experience in it myself. My opinion would be pretty much worthless. That is how I feel now about those without kids telling those with kids how they should feel. I'm not calling you are anyone a bad person. Just inexperienced in the topic at hand.

 

[CheshireVal]

I don't know why you would get so defensive just because some anonymous person on the DIS doesn't value your opinion. I just think having children of your own, especially dealing with them and the schools, has a lot to do with what the OP is talking about. I certainly wouldn't want to go on a thread and tell someone they are wrong for feeling a certain way if I have no experience in it myself. My opinion would be pretty much worthless. That is how I feel now.

Well, I think just about anyone would be defensive when they're told, flat out, that their opinion is worth nothing. I also think it's very telling when an English teacher's opinion is not valued in a thread about schools/education/reading simply because she doesn't have kids at home.

Anyway, I have better things to do than argue this, so I'm out. Have a nice weekend.

 

[jodifla]

Perhaps it's not a big deal to have schoolwork if your kids are doing pretty well there, but OP and her son have some issues going on. I'm sure OP and DS were looking for a break for a bit. Sometimes you need a break from the struggle to refresh.


The PTA in my opinion is WAY OVER the top. I wouldn't tolerate it. I'd definitely use the next IEP meeting and have it addressed there. That's a legal contract, and the PTA would just have to take a flying leap.

 

[DaisyD]

Well, I think just about anyone would be defensive when they're told, flat out, that their opinion is worth nothing. I also think it's very telling when an English teacher's opinion is not valued in a thread about schools/education/reading simply because she doesn't have kids at home.

Anyway, I have better things to do than argue this, so I'm out. Have a nice weekend.

Opinions are interesting to read but that is about it. We all have areas where we have no experience and that doesn't make one a bad person. I am not a grandmother yet so I have no experience in that. My opinion on such would be without merit because I haven't been there, done that. I'm done this petty arguing too. Back to the OP, please let us know what you find out! I am very interested in what the PTA has to say for themselves!

 

[golfgal]

I spend 9 hours a day with about 100 kids, on average. Then there's my extracurricular clubs that I sponsor after school and on weekends.

But, you're right. I don't go home to a child at night. I still don't see how that invalidates my opinion.

Darn. If I had known that I needed to have my own child to have my opinions valued by DaisyD on the Dis, I would have gotten myself knocked up years ago!

I do have to say that before I had kids when I was teaching I felt the same way, "I spend all this time with kids all day, what do you mean I don't know anything about kids". Yes, you do know a lot about kids, you don't know anything about parenting your own child because you can't know until you have done it and that is TOTALLY different. You hear all the time "it is different when they are your own kids" and I have to say that is VERY true. There is just a different understanding of kids when you have raised your own. It isn't a good vs bad, just different. I also know that when I had students like my oldest son in class there were MANY days when I was VERY thankful that he wasn't coming home with me. Now, I don't get away from it that easily.

I see teachers at our kids' school that have totally unrealistic expectations of kids behavior simply because they don't have kids and don't understand that 5 year olds CAN'T sit perfectly still and not poke at their neighbor for 1/2 hour. DS's 1st grade teacher is a perfect example. She thought these little first graders should sit still, never speak out of turn, always raise their hand when they ask a question, never look at or speak to another student unless they were on the playground. If your child didn't act like this, she called you in for a conference and pretty much accused you of not teaching your child how to behave. Well all laugh now as her 5 year olds run laps around the church pretty much every Sunday because they are just wild children.

 

[Arielle22]

After raising my own children for 23 year and counting I honestly do not think an idealized opinion has any value. While intentions may be good, the advice is not. They may be interesting to hear or read, it's always interesting to hear how perfect non parents are, but the advice is sorely lacking in one thing. Experience.

Daisy, so you have 23 yrs experience raising children but my children are only 10 and 12. Does that mean your view is more valid than mine since you have more years? My sister lived with me for 7 1/2 yrs when my dd's were young. They are not her children but her views are much more grounded than many mothers I know. My other sisters are very involved in my dds lives but they have no children. Again I do not find their opinions idealized.

Val I would take your opinion over Daisy's any day. I find her view too closed minded to have any value.

OP, my dd's have summer reading. The entire class is assigned the same 2 books and must present a report on them the first week of class. I have no problem with it. My dd's attend summer camp every day for 7 weeks (dh and I work full time) but we still manage to fit it in and my younger dd is hyperactive.

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

Our public school has summer reading assignments and I have to tell you that it didn't hurt the kids. It also didn't seem very cumbersome. They had to read a book and write a summary of each chapter. Summary only had to be one page in a notepad provided by the school. Then at the end of the book write your thoughts and feelings. Our goal was to get the entire book done within the first two weeks of summer vacation. The community pool wasn't opened yet, sports had ended, etc. The books were not big. One year it was Mr. Popper's Penguins. Another year it was Holes.
The reading was done. The books were closed and stuffed into the desks along with the notepad and completely forgotten about. They tended to read the books first thing after breakfast to get it over with. They usually finished them within a week. My one DSD always finished her's in one day.

When they started back in school in September the book was always the main teaching subject in English/Reading class. For the penguin book it would launch into an entire learning unit. The kids enjoyed the books and never had a problem.

However, to the people that are having 3 to 4 pages of worksheets every day for the summer - I agree - that seems totally unreasonable!!

 

[DaisyD]

Daisy, so you have 23 yrs experience raising children but my children are only 10 and 12. Does that mean your view is more valid than mine since you have more years? My sister lived with me for 7 1/2 yrs when my dd's were young. They are not her children but her views are much more grounded than many mothers I know. My other sisters are very involved in my dds lives but they have no children. Again I do not find their opinions idealized.

Val I would take your opinion over Daisy's any day. I find her view too closed minded to have any value.

OP, my dd's have summer reading. The entire class is assigned the same 2 books and must present a report on them the first week of class. I have no problem with it. My dd's attend summer camp every day for 7 weeks (dh and I work full time) but we still manage to fit it in and my younger dd is hyperactive.

You have experience as a parent, period. Val does not. I really couldn't care less if you value her opinion over mine. We all have certain standards on taking advice and she doesn't have it for me.

 

[DaisyD]

I do have to say that before I had kids when I was teaching I felt the same way, "I spend all this time with kids all day, what do you mean I don't know anything about kids". Yes, you do know a lot about kids, you don't know anything about parenting your own child because you can't know until you have done it and that is TOTALLY different. You hear all the time "it is different when they are your own kids" and I have to say that is VERY true. There is just a different understanding of kids when you have raised your own. It isn't a good vs bad, just different. I also know that when I had students like my oldest son in class there were MANY days when I was VERY thankful that he wasn't coming home with me. Now, I don't get away from it that easily.

I see teachers at our kids' school that have totally unrealistic expectations of kids behavior simply because they don't have kids and don't understand that 5 year olds CAN'T sit perfectly still and not poke at their neighbor for 1/2 hour. DS's 1st grade teacher is a perfect example. She thought these little first graders should sit still, never speak out of turn, always raise their hand when they ask a question, never look at or speak to another student unless they were on the playground. If your child didn't act like this, she called you in for a conference and pretty much accused you of not teaching your child how to behave. Well all laugh now as her 5 year olds run laps around the church pretty much every Sunday because they are just wild children.

Great post!

 

[golfgal]

Perhaps it's not a big deal to have schoolwork if your kids are doing pretty well there, but OP and her son have some issues going on. I'm sure OP and DS were looking for a break for a bit. Sometimes you need a break from the struggle to refresh.


The PTA in my opinion is WAY OVER the top. I wouldn't tolerate it. I'd definitely use the next IEP meeting and have it addressed there. That's a legal contract, and the PTA would just have to take a flying leap.

I am looking forward to a break from homework too but it is ONE BOOK! I think that people that keep bringing up the disability angle are trying to use that as an excuse for not doing the reading, again, the modifications are in place, it isn't an excuse.

 

[princess pooh]

You have experience as a parent, period. Val does not. I really couldn't care less if you value her opinion over mine. We all have certain standards on taking advice and she doesn't have it for me.

I just really don't get the point of posting that you don't care about her opinions??? You could think whatever you want but to post it is really rude. If someone was talking to you and telling you what they thought on a certain subject, would you tell them to their face that their opinion doesn't matter to you? Really this thread isn't all about you and everyone should be able to post their opinions despite what you think about them.