This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[HopperFan]

How many of you - even if the window was closed - would put your toddler up on a handrail on the 11th story of a cruise ship? She did not belong up there period and nobody needs a sign saying that the windows open OR a sign saying that children do not belong on the handrails. I bet when they walk into rooms they don't walk up to tables and stand on them or stand on the chairs. Common sense and life in general lets people know you sit on the chair - at the table. Had somebody decided to stand on the table instead, because somehow they had no flipping clue that people just did not do things like that, and they fell and were killed.... who is at fault? The people that owned that table for not having a sign on the table saying that you should not sit or stand on it? Or the ******* that decided they wanted to stand on the table?

I don't care hold old kids are, people should know not to put their babies on handrails in front of a window on the 11th floor of a cruise ship, even if the damn window was closed. And if they want the windows modified dear lord what will need to be done on all the open floors with just railings and no windows or the room balconies?!?!?

^THIS

I've been on that ship right where that happened.

Bottom line: the windows are FLOOR TO CEILING. She could see out in every direction. She could bang on the windows like she does at hockey. She could lean forward putting her whole body on window as it leaned outwards. She could see the sky, the dock, the other ships, the city, the people ... everything. She could do all this and be perfectly safe.

Grandpa lifted her up for a reason ......... it wasn't to see, she could do that with no obstructions.

He lifted her up to be next to and then outside of an OPEN WINDOW.

 

[snoodledoo]

Hello, I have not read all 80+ pages of this thread, and haven't been following the story closely, but I did just watch a video where it appears the grandfather leaned his upper body out of the window just prior to picking up the girl. What is the theory, that he intentionally killed his granddaughter or that his recklessness resulted in her death?

 

[sam_gordon]

Hello, I have not read all 80+ pages of this thread, and haven't been following the story closely, but I did just watch a video where it appears the grandfather leaned his upper body out of the window just prior to picking up the girl. What is the theory, that he intentionally killed his granddaughter or that his recklessness resulted in her death?

There are people who think he intentionally killed her (or that the possibility is there). Others think it was his recklessness, and a small handful (although I don't think anyone on this thread) think he's blameless, at least partially, and Royal Caribbean is at fault.

Personally what I think happened is Chloe was left in his care while the family went to take care of something. After playing in the pool, Chloe started walking toward the windows, stopping part way there and talking (as much as an 18 month old can talk) to Anello. Then they both proceeded to the window. Chloe stood and looked out the lower window, Anello looked out the open window, INCLUDING leaning over and if not putting his head through the window, coming pretty close. He then picked up Chloe because he wanted to show her something out of the window. He either stood her on the railing or on the window sill holding her with one hand. At some point she squirmed (uncomfortable? Saw something? Don't know). He lost his grip on her, she toppled forward, out the window, and to the ground below.

I think the video we have seen supports that. I don't buy the "bang on the glass" or the "I couldn't tell the window was open" arguments. Just my opinion.

 

[KayaWildfire]

Hello, I have not read all 80+ pages of this thread, and haven't been following the story closely, but I did just watch a video where it appears the grandfather leaned his upper body out of the window just prior to picking up the girl. What is the theory, that he intentionally killed his granddaughter or that his recklessness resulted in her death?

I think most believe that his recklessness resulted in her death. Or that he didn't do anything wrong at all. There are starting to be conspiracy theories that he did it on purpose for the payout, but I really hope not.

 

[barkley]

this may have been asked/answered already in this thread but i'm curious-was anything ever said as to if grandpa had any alcohol in his system at the time of the accident?

 

[ENJDisneyFan]

this may have been asked/answered already in this thread but i'm curious-was anything ever said as to if grandpa had any alcohol in his system at the time of the accident?

Yes, it was stated that he did not drink and there was no alcohol found in his system.

 

[ronandannette]

Hello, I have not read all 80+ pages of this thread, and haven't been following the story closely, but I did just watch a video where it appears the grandfather leaned his upper body out of the window just prior to picking up the girl. What is the theory, that he intentionally killed his granddaughter or that his recklessness resulted in her death?

Hi. The gist of it has been explained by others but in case you weren't aware; the entire original argument put forth by the family was that the grandfather could not tell the window was open. We spent many weeks discussing that here and with the help of photos for those who have never seen them in person, practically everybody agrees it's impossible not to be able to tell visually. That point became moot when the video emerged - the one with him extending his own torso out the window before lifting the baby.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes, it was stated that he did not drink and there was no alcohol found in his system.

Are you sure they did a BAC test? I thought I had heard he had refused one.

 

[ENJDisneyFan]

Are you sure they did a BAC test? I thought I had heard he had refused one.

No I’m not sure. I just remember every article stating that alcohol was not a factor.

 

[Dznypal]

While searching to see if there were any new updates I really watched the video it seems strange I saw about 10 people sitting in the area by the window after she fell it seemed like no one was aware of what just happened you’d think people would be going over to see if they could help or leaving the area knowing what just happened but it seemed like everyone just carried on like nothing happened. Wonder if anyone had their cell phone out. Not to sound dumb but it seems when something isgoing on people are taping it even before calling 911 when fights happen in school kids all have their phones out but does anyone call 911. Just some strange thoughts over this horrible story.

 

[Searc]

While searching to see if there were any new updates I really watched the video it seems strange I saw about 10 people sitting in the area by the window after she fell it seemed like no one was aware of what just happened you’d think people would be going over to see if they could help or leaving the area knowing what just happened but it seemed like everyone just carried on like nothing happened. Wonder if anyone had their cell phone out. Not to sound dumb but it seems when something isgoing on people are taping it even before calling 911 when fights happen in school kids all have their phones out but does anyone call 911. Just some strange thoughts over this horrible story.

There is a lot of noise on the decks and unless the step grandfather made some loud noise, people wouldn't know immediately anything had just happened. People also tend to not pay attention to what others are doing. They are on vacation and are usually focused on themselves or their own traveling party.

 

[fly girl]

While searching to see if there were any new updates I really watched the video it seems strange I saw about 10 people sitting in the area by the window after she fell it seemed like no one was aware of what just happened you’d think people would be going over to see if they could help or leaving the area knowing what just happened but it seemed like everyone just carried on like nothing happened. Wonder if anyone had their cell phone out. Not to sound dumb but it seems when something isgoing on people are taping it even before calling 911 when fights happen in school kids all have their phones out but does anyone call 911. Just some strange thoughts over this horrible story.

If you watch the side angle video right before the video cuts off, you'll start to see a crowd gather. It doesn't happen right away, probably 10-15 seconds after Anello falls to his knees.

@Searc nailed it, passengers are in their bubble with their family/friends doing their own thing. Personally, unless I am actively people watching, I am oblivious to others around me in that type of situation.

And if you look at the video, the age group is mostly older adults. I am sure some were on their phones, but most people of that age aren't putting their every moment on video. It is interesting though that no passenger has come forward with any insights.

 

[HopperFan]

While searching to see if there were any new updates I really watched the video it seems strange I saw about 10 people sitting in the area by the window after she fell it seemed like no one was aware of what just happened you’d think people would be going over to see if they could help or leaving the area knowing what just happened but it seemed like everyone just carried on like nothing happened. Wonder if anyone had their cell phone out. Not to sound dumb but it seems when something isgoing on people are taping it even before calling 911 when fights happen in school kids all have their phones out but does anyone call 911. Just some strange thoughts over this horrible story.

Ditto on the above responses but I'll add ...

When we cruise the bulk of our group put their phones in the safe since they don't use them on ship. They depend on me to take most the photos and use my data/wifi plan. So if we were sitting there likely I would be the only one with a phone. We are usually enjoying each other's company, having drinks, talking about the trip and excited ... we rarely pay any attention to people around us, unless they are disruptive.

Also if it were only a man falling back and distressed ... folks likely looked about to see if his family was close, waited for maybe a crew member to see them and it only takes one person to ask him if he was okay if there appeared to be no medical issue. Or ask him if he would like help called.

There may have been a person or a few that saw it happen start to finish. They may have given statements to police and those are not being made public. If I were that person I would never go public and take on the onslaught of media and social media. Having been a witness in court .... it was such a negative experience it could be I wouldn't even come forward ... at least not until down the road in the event I felt it wasn't being properly handled. There are lots of folks who are witnesses who never come forward because they don't want to be involved and THIS incident's media attention could potentially be a nightmare for a witness.

 

[John VN]

Cruise ship crowd waiting for vacation sail away = self absorbed fun time not really paying attention to others

With 1 arm around her holding her to his chest, she would be blocked from view to virtually everyone not at a side location and then not unless looking directly at what was transpiring. Understandable that no one RUSHED over.

 

[backformore]

No I’m not sure. I just remember every article stating that alcohol was not a factor.

Sure, but every article also said this happened in a "children's play area."

 

[ZTator]

Sometimes horrible things just happen so fast when you are stupid, I don't think the man planned to kill the little girl , I really don't, I just think he acted very stupidly and it's one of those situations you just can't sort out , it takes just a seconds very bad judgment to change a life. IMO

 

[backformore]

Sometimes horrible things just happen so fast when you are stupid, I don't think the man planned to kill the little girl , I really don't, I just think he acted very stupidly and it's one of those situations you just can't sort out , it takes just a seconds very bad judgment to change a life. IMO

Of course he didn't do it on purpose. But he's responsible, just like when kids die because their parents left them in a car, didn't supervise them, left drugs lying around, etc. Neglect and child endangerment cause kids to die, and we hold the adults responsible. The parents suing the cruise line, saying there should be warnings that windows open, and that putting your kid on a railing is dangerous, are being ridiculous.

 

[Alison Wonderland]

He refused any type of test for drugs/alcohol.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

He refused any type of test for drugs/alcohol.

Where did you see that?

 

[sam_gordon]

Where did you see that?

I also remember reading that in a couple of articles.