This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[Allison]

This scenario seems very logical.




The man is just human and he thought things would happen one way and tragically they didn’t. No malice, just a human who made a tragic mistake that he has to live with and look into his own child’s eyes and know he caused the death of their child. I can’t imagine, I just can’t imagine.

I remember when Dd was that small and dh would lift her up to see things. Like maybe at the zoo, to see an animal. I would almost have a panic attack and he would say “I got her”. Now he never really put her in danger and he always made sure he held her in a way that squirming could never have made him drop her but how many parents do hold their child up to these same things all the time and don’t have as good a grip as they should have? Or step closer than dh did and if they had dropped the child would have dropped them into danger? Honestly there are so many things that can happen to our children in a split second. It’s easy to judge after the fact and wonder why someone would do these things but the fact is, it happens and it’s tragic.

Absolutely!! I could not agree more.

 

[msjprincess]

I wonder if the window was opened by a cruise ship employee or a passenger. I've never been on a cruise but is opening windows in a common area something a passenger would do? I'm just curious.

Many, maybe even most Royal Caribbean ships have sliding glass windows that slide open near the pool. Anyone can open them.

 

[havaneselover]

This is such a tragedy. Cannot imagine what the family is going through. Blaming RCI is absurd IMO and it's sad it went there so quickly.

 

[3DisneyBuggs]

It is a tragey but why blame the cruise line? Why did he want her to bang on the glass, they were not at a hockey game, There were also glass windows below that she could have looked out. Why did he not have a grip on her as he propped her up against a row of windows 11 floors up? Propped her to me means he left her there. That family will never be the same again and its very sad. Hopefully video will solve the blame.

 

[Summer2018]

This is a very interesting point. Let’s suppose something happened at a daycare where an employee held a child up on a balcony railing and let go by accident. The mom wouldn’t be suing the building owner or property manager, she would be pressing charges against the daycare employee.

That is the absolute truth.

 

[pezgirlroy]

This is a horrible tragic accident. The question I keep asking myself is why would anyone sit a child on a balcony railing on a cruise ship. Even if there was a closed window behind it. This was a huge error in judgment. This is not the fault of the cruise line. I will actually be on this ship in three weeks. Even I at the age of 41 do not go to close to railings on cruise ships.

 

[AppleDumpling]

What a horrific tragedy for this family. A precious life lost in a split second of carelessness/confusion.

I don’t understand how anyone could not realize the window was open, yet also agree with others that the grandfather was irresponsible to put her up on the railing in the first place, with the intention of letting her bang on glass. The pain and guilt this man will suffer forever is unimaginable.

Probably not a popular opinion here, but I would never bring a child that young on a cruise ship, for many reasons.

 

[abdmom]

https://www.insideedition.com/media...hip-reveals-how-they-saw-tragedy-happen-54313
Even the family's lawyer says that the GF let go of the little girl after placing her on the railing. Even if there had been glass there, she could have fallen on the glass and had it break under her weight. Or she could have fallen backwards and hit her head.

DS used to play hockey. Banging on the glass wasn't a thing. It baffles me why you would teach a toddler to bang on glass. On a regular window, she could break it. She could have looked out at the view from where she could stand on the deck.

It's not a children's play area. It's the pool deck. It's probably the most dangerous area of the ship available to passengers. The deck is slippery because of people tracking water around. There are pools and hot tubs that people can and have drowned in. There's so many people around that it's easy to lose track of a little one. The adults with Chloe should have been extra vigilant in the area. There is a splash pool nearby, but kids, especially Chloe's age, have to be closely monitored there, as in within arms reach of their supervising adult. There are signs to that effect. My youngest was 2 on his first cruise. I never took him to the pool deck. Just too dangerous.

This tragedy reminds me of Chase Lykken's near drowning on Disney Fantasy 6 years ago. That also happened right after the family boarded the ship.

 

[pezgirlroy]

https://www.insideedition.com/media...hip-reveals-how-they-saw-tragedy-happen-54313
Even the family's lawyer says that the GF let go of the little girl after placing her on the railing. Even if there had been glass there, she could have fallen on the glass and had it break under her weight. Or she could have fallen backwards and hit her head.

DS used to play hockey. Banging on the glass wasn't a thing. It baffles me why you would teach a toddler to bang on glass. On a regular window, she could break it. She could have looked out at the view from where she could stand on the deck.

It's not a children's play area. It's the pool deck. It's probably the most dangerous area of the ship available to passengers. The deck is slippery because of people tracking water around. There are pools and hot tubs that people can and have drowned in. There's so many people around that it's easy to lose track of a little one. The adults with Chloe should have been extra vigilant in the area. There is a splash pool nearby, but kids, especially Chloe's age, have to be closely monitored there, as in within arms reach of their supervising adult. There are signs to that effect. My youngest was 2 on his first cruise. I never took him to the pool deck. Just too dangerous.

This tragedy reminds me of Chase Lykken's near drowning on Disney Fantasy 6 years ago. That also happened right after the family boarded the ship.

Yes that is the other part about this that really bothers me. This is not a kid's play area. There is a pool in this area which means you need to be extra vigilant with kids this age. Also, children really shouldn't be taught to bang on the glass. The whole thing is just horrible and I really really feel for this family. But this is not the cruise line's fault.

 

[mnrose]

Without reading everything, I think the desire to find SOME explanation that doesn't involve the grandfather's own HUMAN mistake is understandable. Freak things happen. That's the way our world works. And, no one wants to say "it's my fault" or "it's Dad's fault" that this happened. We all want to absolve ourselves of blame because it's hard to accept that sometimes bad things happen to regular good people for no good reason at all. Just to give a small example, I fell while running the other day. My foot caught a slightly raised section of sidewalk (like 3/4 of an inch or less). And, my mind immediately goes to "geez damn sidewalk!" The reality is, however, that something on the lake caught my eye and I turned my head. Normally, I'm paying at least some attention to where my foot goes, but in that split second, I turned my head. It was my fault. Life isn't perfect and split second decisions can have enormous consequences. I hope this family can find peace eventually that this is just that...a tragic accident that happens when people make split second decisions that aren't even "wrong" necessarily.

 

[msjprincess]

Yes that is the other part about this that really bothers me. This is not a kid's play area. There is a pool in this area which means you need to be extra vigilant with kids this age. Also, children really shouldn't be taught to bang on the glass. The whole thing is just horrible and I really really feel for this family. But this is not the cruise line's fault.

MTE. Describing it as a "glass enclosed children's play area" paints a completely different picture. They make it sound like a nursery with kids running around who may open a window and fall out. The windows are next to the seating area near the kids pool area. And the window openings are above small kids heads.

I don't think there was malice involved. I think it was a tragic accident. It's not the cruiselines fault though.

 

[luvsJack]

Without reading everything, I think the desire to find SOME explanation that doesn't involve the grandfather's own HUMAN mistake is understandable. Freak things happen. That's the way our world works. And, no one wants to say "it's my fault" or "it's Dad's fault" that this happened. We all want to absolve ourselves of blame because it's hard to accept that sometimes bad things happen to regular good people for no good reason at all. Just to give a small example, I fell while running the other day. My foot caught a slightly raised section of sidewalk (like 3/4 of an inch or less). And, my mind immediately goes to "geez damn sidewalk!" The reality is, however, that something on the lake caught my eye and I turned my head. Normally, I'm paying at least some attention to where my foot goes, but in that split second, I turned my head. It was my fault. Life isn't perfect and split second decisions can have enormous consequences. I hope this family can find peace eventually that this is just that...a tragic accident that happens when people make split second decisions that aren't even "wrong" necessarily.

This is so true. Also, I think that all of us, as humans, tend to "Monday morning quarterback" a situation because we want to "know" that it would never happen to us. And while it may be true that this particular incident may not happen to me or you or anyone here, something else bad can happen with those spilt second decisions.

 

[lifesavacation]

There’s a photo on cruise critic that shows distance between the railing and the window. They appear good bit away from each other. I can’t see standing the child up on the railing to let them pound on the glass.

Also, the story how this happened isn’t clear to me.

Version 1: Grandpa thinks window closed. He stands child up on railing. Child leans forward to bang on glass, begins falling through opening, and she slips from his grip.

Version 2 (Inside Edition): Grandpa thinks window closed. He stands child up on railing. He (intentionally??) lets go of child. Child falls through opening. I put intentionally in parentheses because I have to have misunderstood that part. I can’t see anyone letting go of a child who is standing on a railing.

These are 2 different scenarios.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

https://www.insideedition.com/media...hip-reveals-how-they-saw-tragedy-happen-54313
Even the family's lawyer says that the GF let go of the little girl after placing her on the railing. Even if there had been glass there, she could have fallen on the glass and had it break under her weight. Or she could have fallen backwards and hit her head.

DS used to play hockey. Banging on the glass wasn't a thing. It baffles me why you would teach a toddler to bang on glass. On a regular window, she could break it. She could have looked out at the view from where she could stand on the deck.

It's not a children's play area. It's the pool deck. It's probably the most dangerous area of the ship available to passengers. The deck is slippery because of people tracking water around. There are pools and hot tubs that people can and have drowned in. There's so many people around that it's easy to lose track of a little one. The adults with Chloe should have been extra vigilant in the area. There is a splash pool nearby, but kids, especially Chloe's age, have to be closely monitored there, as in within arms reach of their supervising adult. There are signs to that effect. My youngest was 2 on his first cruise. I never took him to the pool deck. Just too dangerous.

This tragedy reminds me of Chase Lykken's near drowning on Disney Fantasy 6 years ago. That also happened right after the family boarded the ship.

I agree, and was also wondering about that (bolded). What if a puck slammed the glass right where she was standing, wouldn't it startle her and maybe cause her to fall backwards, at minimum? There was a family that my DS played baseball with who had a little girl around the same age who they let wander around unsupervised during games. One day she walked right into the on deck area just as a player was forcefully swinging his metal bat warming up and it literally just missed hitting her. Should there have been a sign warning people to stay away from the on deck area? (I've never seen one.) Or is that just somewhere people know to be careful around?

 

[jen7233]

I say it's plausible he didn't see the window where he brought her up to wasn't closed. It takes just a second to lose a grip. I just saw a picture on a friend's Facebook page where they dangled their baby at the top of a peak on a huge rocky hill technically it is labeled as a mountain but the visual on that on the internet would be a ski mountain. But this is a huge rocky peak, as in one slip and mistake and it's a definite fall, anyway they climbed and posted with a lion king Simba caption when he was presented as a cub. Seeing it I thought, wow lucky they didn't slip. Over confidence in a grip and control of a situation I suppose, lucky for the majority of folks, tragic for very few.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

There’s a photo on cruise critic that shows distance between the railing and the window. They appear good bit away from each other. I can’t see standing the child up on the railing to let them pound on the glass.

Also, the story how this happened isn’t clear to me.

Version 1: Grandpa thinks window closed. He stands child up on railing. Child leans forward to bang on glass, begins falling through opening, and she slips from his grip.

Version 2 (Inside Edition): Grandpa thinks window closed. He stands child up on railing. He (intentionally??) lets go of child. Child falls through opening. I put intentionally in parentheses because I have to have misunderstood that part. I can’t see anyone letting go of a child who is standing on a railing.

These are 2 different scenarios.

Wish we could see it!

 

[Hikergirl]

There’s a photo on cruise critic that shows distance between the railing and the window. They appear good bit away from each other. I can’t see standing the child up on the railing to let them pound on the glass.

Also, the story how this happened isn’t clear to me.

Version 1: Grandpa thinks window closed. He stands child up on railing. Child leans forward to bang on glass, begins falling through opening, and she slips from his grip.

Version 2 (Inside Edition): Grandpa thinks window closed. He stands child up on railing. He (intentionally??) lets go of child. Child falls through opening. I put intentionally in parentheses because I have to have misunderstood that part. I can’t see anyone letting go of a child who is standing on a railing.

These are 2 different scenarios.

I can, it only takes your hands being off her for a split second.
I am not picturing him propping her up there and letting her go and walking away.
I'm picturing him putting her up there and briefly taking his hands off her while standing right there behind her. Without actually witnessing it we have no idea what or why he did what he did.
I think of all the stuff that I have done with my kids, especially when they were young that would be scrutinized if something like this would have happened, and I am sure there were things I did that people wouldn't understand why I did them. At the time maybe I just didn't think, I just did something. I think we can all say the same. Most of the time those little things don't turn in to tragedies but sadly sometimes they do.

I am still more baffled how he didn't realize the window was open if he was standing in front of it.

 

[msjprincess]

There’s a photo on cruise critic that shows distance between the railing and the window. They appear good bit away from each other. I can’t see standing the child up on the railing to let them pound on the glass.

Also, the story how this happened isn’t clear to me.

Version 1: Grandpa thinks window closed. He stands child up on railing. Child leans forward to bang on glass, begins falling through opening, and she slips from his grip.

Version 2 (Inside Edition): Grandpa thinks window closed. He stands child up on railing. He (intentionally??) lets go of child. Child falls through opening. I put intentionally in parentheses because I have to have misunderstood that part. I can’t see anyone letting go of a child who is standing on a railing.

These are 2 different scenarios.

Yes, it appears to be at least 6 inches between the railing and window. Plus the railing itself is only a few inches wide.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Yes, it appears to be at least 6 inches between the railing and window. Plus the railing itself is only a few inches wide.


View attachment 416011

Thanks for the picture. It looks like the window is in a track. It seems plausible that if enough pressure was applied, it could come out of its track, doesn't it? Why even risk it? I also wonder, what is the purpose of the rail? Is it a visual cue to say, "Stop" because there are windows there? It also looks like it was purposely kept more as a rail than a ledge to discourage sitting. I could see standing adults leaning on the rail to enjoy the view from the windows. I can't see anything that would make one think it's ok to sit or stand up on it.

 

[Summer2018]

https://www.insideedition.com/media...hip-reveals-how-they-saw-tragedy-happen-54313
Even the family's lawyer says that the GF let go of the little girl after placing her on the railing. Even if there had been glass there, she could have fallen on the glass and had it break under her weight. Or she could have fallen backwards and hit her head.

DS used to play hockey. Banging on the glass wasn't a thing. It baffles me why you would teach a toddler to bang on glass. On a regular window, she could break it. She could have looked out at the view from where she could stand on the deck.

It's not a children's play area. It's the pool deck. It's probably the most dangerous area of the ship available to passengers. The deck is slippery because of people tracking water around. There are pools and hot tubs that people can and have drowned in. There's so many people around that it's easy to lose track of a little one. The adults with Chloe should have been extra vigilant in the area. There is a splash pool nearby, but kids, especially Chloe's age, have to be closely monitored there, as in within arms reach of their supervising adult. There are signs to that effect. My youngest was 2 on his first cruise. I never took him to the pool deck. Just too dangerous.

This tragedy reminds me of Chase Lykken's near drowning on Disney Fantasy 6 years ago. That also happened right after the family boarded the ship.

DH is hockey player and coach. I have been to thousands of hockey games in many arenas.

Banging on glass isn’t permitted. Event staff and security relocate people who bang on the glass. In the suites, it’s made known that banging on the glass is not allowed and if anyone (adults and children alike) bang on the glass, they will be removed from the premises.

It’s a stupid thing to teach a baby.

I have seen it happen multiple times. I’ve seen it break. It’s not pretty.