This is absolutley a debate: The Reagan Presidency.

[Pongo69]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
What are you talking about? Chicago526 is more than entitled to her opinion. Simply because she doesn't "idolize" this man and his wife, as many on this thread seem to do so blindly, doesn't mean she should be attacked.

If yourself and others are connecting pain from a personal loss in your own life to this debate perhaps now would be a great time for you to take a leave of absence.

It's obvious there are many who think Ronnie was a great man, and their are those who think he was the worst president ever. Believe it or not- NOT everyone in America or around the world think of ronnie as an American HERO. He definitely was not nor will any president be hero worshipped by me.
He is not God nor was he perfect. He has to stand before God just as you and I do when our time comes.

As far as what Chicago 526 said, I don't find anything offensive about it. She is entitled to her own opinion.
We took care of my granny and my father before they passed. Yes it was hard and sometimes stressful, because you don't want to see someone you love so much suffer.
People really need to stop being so sensitive just because others don't agree with you.

 

[shrubber]

Here are Reagan's biggest accomplishments...

Taxes: Reagan slashed taxes from a 70% top bracket in 1981 to 28% in 1986. That resulted in 20 million jobs being created between 1983 - 1989, a doubling of the amount of revenue going into government coffers, and a wave of prosperity that America rode from 1983 until 2001 with only a small pause at the end of the George Bush Sr.'s term.

Rebuilding America's Military: If you want to know why America is such a military powerhouse today, then you need look no further than Reagan. Reagan's funding increases and dedication to strengthening our military are what allowed us to be so successful in the Gulf War and beyond. If Reagan hadn't come along, our military capabilities would be only a shadow of what of they are today.

SDI: Reagan's much derided "Star Wars program" not only helped convince the Soviets that they couldn't compete with America, but the missile defense system we're going to have working (at least in a rudimentary form) possibly as early as 2004, is an outgrowth of the program Reagan promoted.

Defeating The Soviet Union: When Reagan came into office, détente was the policy of the day. Reagan abandoned détente and made no secret of the fact that considered the Soviet Union to be an, "evil empire." Instead of cooperating with the Soviets, Reagan forced them to try to keep up with America's massive military budget when they could barely feed their own people. Eventually Gorbachev, who was an avowed Communist, realized that the Soviets had no hope of keeping up with the US, and he started trying to implement reforms. Things soon spiraled out of his control and the death of the Soviet Union occurred withina few years. Had Reagan never been in office and had the policy of détente continued to the present day, the Soviet Union would probably still exist.

Rebuilding the Republican Just as Babe Ruth "saved" baseball after the, "Black Sox scandal", Ronald Reagan "saved" the Republican party after Nixon. Reagan's incredible popularity (1980: Reagan 489 electoral votes -- Carter 49 & 1984: Reagan 525 electoral votes -- Mondale 13) forever altered the way the public viewed the Republican Party and the way the GOP viewed itself. Had Reagan lost 1980 or 1984, it's doubtful that we'd see the GOP controlling both Congress and the Presidency today.

Truly a great American President

 

[Disneylvr]

While I have mixed feelings (mostly good feelings though) about Ronald Reagan as President I do consider both President and Mrs. Reagan crusaders in the fight against Alzheimer's Disease. The Reagan family increased public awareness of the disease and participated in countless interviews, public service announcements and fund raisers to help in the fight to find a cure. They also established the Ronald and Nancy Reagan Research Institute in 1995. To me, they are American heroes as they also are to many families who have helped by their efforts.

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by Pete's Mom
I remember being around 12 or 13 and laying in bed at night scared to death that the Soviets were going to nuke us and wondering if I was going to wake up in the morning. I can't imagine feeling the same way by just "reading or studying" it more than 20 years later.

Me either. I don't know about you, but I vividly remember the civil defense drills during the 60's while I was in grade school. I don't know if I was scared or not but I do remember.

Can you honestly say that 20 or more years from now that a new generation will be able to fully understand the impact of 09/11 as we feel it now?

I think it would be impossible.

 

[acepepper]

I was never a fan of Reagan's but he was someone who was difficult to dislike. He was also very witty. I read some of his quotes today, my favourite being, when asked about the deficit, "I don't worry about it, it's big enough to take care of itself." Class.

He also proved what I've always said, that governments will do deals with terrorists, despite their protestations to the contrary, as illustrated by the Iran arms for hostages saga.

 

[dmadman43]

was 4 when he took office, and 12 when he left. I don't know why, since I was so young, but I never liked the man. I never believed a word that came out of his mouth! I grew up in a Republican household, so my parents didn't influance me, either. As an adult, I'm a moderate Democrat.

Well, you were 12 then. You can be excused for such thoughts

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by acepepper
I was never a fan of Reagan's but he was someone who was difficult to dislike. He was also very witty. I read some of his quotes today, my favourite being, when asked about the deficit, "I don't worry about it, it's big enough to take care of itself." Class.

He also proved what I've always said, that governments will do deals with terrorists, despite their protestations to the contrary, as illustrated by the Iran arms for hostages saga.

As to your last point. While in hindsight there was much to beconcerned about in Iran-Contra deal, Congress refused to fund the fight against Communism in Latin America, and Reagan refused to relent on winning the Cold War. His strategy was to have the Soviets spend beyond their means, mainly to maintain territory they thought they had already gained. So, I'm not I would classify that as "govts will do deals with terrorists", but I understand the point you are trying to make. It definately helped in winning Cold War, however.

As for your first point, my favorite along those lines is:

""Mr. President," TV reporter Sam Donaldson yelled out at Reagan after a 1982 press conference, "In talking about the continuing recession tonight, you have blamed the mistakes of the past and you've blamed Congress. Does any of the blame belong to you?" Reagan responded, "Yes, because for many years I was a Democrat."

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by N.Bailey
That's pathetic! I read a few, but I couldn't stomach any more than that. Sad that people really believe all that though huh? He won both elections by a landslide, so I know that is no representation of the general population.

That's true. I'm just wondering if that is representative of the staunch Democrats, or these folks are the lunatic fringe. I hope most Dems are much more "kindler and gentler"

 

[Pyg Me]

Originally posted by Virgo10
I'm not one to debate much but the ringing praises of Ronald Reagan's presidency have really gotten to me. First of all, I'm sorry the man has died. More importantly, as someone who has worked with Alzheimer patients for years, I'm sorry he was a victim of this terrible disease. This is only about his White House years.

Do I think he was a great president. No. Do I think he always had the country's best interests at heart? No. Let's remember that it was Ronald Reagan who wanted to make Ketchup a vegetable in the school lunch program. Then there was the mass firing of the Air Traffic Controllers, his support of the Afghan Mujaheddin, the astrologer in the White House and on and on.

I'm not saying that he was a total presidential failure. Heck, even Richard Nixon did a few good things. I'd just like people to stop and remember everything.

Roberta

Let me help you out on a couple of those things you mention:

"Mass firing of ATC'rs" First of all, did you realize the it is not only against federal law for them to strike, it was against their contract. PATCO (Proffessional Air Traffic Controller's Organization) led their membership wrong. When they hinted at a strike, Presidnent Reagan SPECIFICALLY told them they would be fired. PATCO called his bluff and lost.

Support for the Mujahdeen: Do you know why? Unless you know why, it would be unfair to criticize him. The USSR needed a warm water port. They onld had cold water ports which cost them billions in dollars during the winter to keep open and repair damage due to massive icing. Not to mention the utter strategic disadvantage of having your fleet frozen in place. The nearest warm water port was Afghanistan to the south. The USSR invaded Afghanistan with the intent to build a warm water port. The US, rightfully so, assisted the Afgahnistan in defending her self against an invader. You may not like it, but at least understand the reasoning.

The ketchup/astrologer stuff was made more of a deal than it really was.

 

[Pyg Me]

Originally posted by richiebaseball
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040607/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_9

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites) is taking an unexpected week off the campaign trail, canceling all public events through Friday, when the nation buries former President Reagan.
The interruption of his campaign comes as Kerry is in a tight race with President Bush (news - web sites). But with the nation mourning one of its icons, partisan battles are out of the question, aides said Sunday.
"President Reagan's death is a time to put politics aside," said Kerry communications director Stephanie Cutter. "When a former president passes away, it's the end of an important chapter in history and it deserves respect."

I applaud Senator Kerry for his class and respect.


Just one man's opinion.

Richard

I dont buy it. John Kerry was not stupid in making this decision. He had several large gatherings scheduled with the likes of Babs, Danny Glover, and a few other unabashed Reagan haters. The last thing he wanted was for one of this gatherings turnign into a full-fledge Reagan bashing event that would turn off fence sitting voters.

Thing the Paul Wellstone Memorial.

John Kerry made a purely poltical decision to stop the campaign for a week.

 

[Pyg Me]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
Ah, yes. Long term impact. Let's look, shall we?

"The national debt surpassed a trillion dollars for the first time in history in October 1981 and more than doubled before Reagan left office. The annual interest on that debt surged to more than $150 billion to become the third largest item in the budget.

In 1982 that annual deficit soared beyond $100 billion dollars for the first time in history; in three of the next four years it exceeded $200 billion."

Ah, what a legacy!

You are going to despise any conservative, God fearing, Republican. That is just your nature. It fits your total agenda just fine.

And a little hint for you. All during the Reagan years, congress was controlled by the Democrats.

 

[AirForceRocks]

John Kerry made a purely poltical decision to stop the campaign for a week.

Personally, I don't care why he did it. I think it was the right decision, and I applaud him for it.

 

[Pyg Me]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
You mean the puppet congress that passed whatever Reagan wanted? And, if you want to go that route anyway, Reagan proposed these policies. They were his. The deficit was a result of his policies. It was Reagan who brought us this wonderful deficit. Remember, deficits are for republicans. You need look no further than w's administration to see that.

Just like I said. When you make weak arguments like this, it really shows your true nature. A "puppet congress." Sheesh!

A couple of more hints for you.

1979 rounded out with double digit inflation, 12 percent unemployment rate, and 21 percent interest rates. The US was the laughing stock of the world. The period between 1981 and 1993 was the longest period of economic growth during the history of the US.

ANd you should also know, the military buildup, which was largely a hi-tech venture, ushered in the the computer age that the American economy rides like a super-wave to this day.

 

[Pyg Me]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
The dead are dead. They don't care what anyone says about them.

Another hint for you.


1980 Reagan won 46 states.

1984 Reagan won 49 states and had the largest number of votes ever for a presidenatial candidate.

Yeah, he was hated.

 

[N.Bailey]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ThreeCircles
The dead are dead. They don't care what anyone says about them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Another hint for you.


1980 Reagan won 46 states.

1984 Reagan won 49 states and had the largest number of votes ever for a presidenatial candidate.

Yeah, he was hated.

_________________________________________________

Not only that, he left his presidency more loved than when he entered, so, even on the way out, the country (and a lot of the world) had not changed their views of him, we all loved him.

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by Pyg Me
The nearest warm water port was Afghanistan to the south. The USSR invaded Afghanistan with the intent to build a warm water port.

Well they weren't very smart.

Afghanistan is landlocked.

That is unless they planned on going through Pakistan to get to the ocean.

 

[ThreeCircles]

Originally posted by Pyg Me
Another hint for you.
1980 Reagan won 46 states.
1984 Reagan won 49 states and had the largest number of votes ever for a presidenatial candidate.
Yeah, he was hated.

Originally posted by N. Bailey
Not only that, he left his presidency more loved than when he entered, so, even on the way out, the country (and a lot of the world) had not changed their views of him, we all loved him.

At the very least, you BOTH need to quote the right individual. I never posted that "Reagan was hated." In fact, you quote me and then talk about something that doesn't even relate.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
You mean the puppet congress that passed whatever Reagan wanted? And, if you want to go that route anyway, Reagan proposed these policies. They were his. The deficit was a result of his policies. It was Reagan who brought us this wonderful deficit. Remember, deficits are for republicans. You need look no further than w's administration to see that.

Well, it might help to read a macro-econ book once. True there was a recession in 1982, but that was because the tax cuts didn't get implemented until 1983. The deficits were also the result of military spending to end the Cold War. (unless you prefer the Soviets still be around and attempting to take over countries). The deficits decreased as defense spending shrunk after the Cold War was over, and Congress (a GOP Congress I might add) slowed down govt spending in the mid 90's (there's your "Clinton had no deficits" reason).

Do we all want to go back to a top tax rate of 70%? Reagan dropped it to 28%. It's now back up to 35% thanks to....anyone? anyone? (boy, those were the days! I'd love to be paying 28% rather than the 35% I pay now). And Reagan's own advisors wanted him to pull back on the cuts. Thankfully, he didn't. Gotta love a President that does what he promises.

In addition, he was also castigated for suggesting welfare recipients have a work requirement imposed on them. It was "mean". Well, what type of welfare reform did Clinton sign? Anyone? Anyone? Can you say "no welfare without work"? I thought you could.

 

[dmadman43]

his support of the Afghan Mujaheddin

here is some interesting insight from a Pakistani General on Reagan's support:

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_8-6-2004_pg4_14

The Central Intelligence Agency spent billions of dollars arming and funding Islamic warriors to slip into Afghanistan from western Pakistan to fight the Soviets. “It was monumental, it was historic,” retired Pakistani general Hamid Gul, who headed the ISI military spy agency from 1987-1989, said of Reagan’s role in defeating the Soviets. “We were receiving arms and logistics from the CIA, we were partners in this struggle,” Gul told AFP, estimating the CIA spent six to seven billion dollars in supplying arms and logistics to Islamic fighters or “jihadis.” “The jihadis he supported. It was their resistance against the forces of occupation and repression — thatt’s what jihad is — that Reagan identified himself with,” Gul said.

His greatest achievement was that he stood behind the Islamic world when it was arrayed against the Soviet empire.” Pakistani analyst Hasan Askari Rizvi said Reagan “will always be remembered for American support to these extremist and hardline Islamic groups.” “Al-Qaeda took shape later on but they grew from this period. Some of the Al-Qaeda people were Arabs who fought in Afghanistan during these years, and once the Afghan cause was gone, they regrouped under Al-Qaeda and took up international causes,” Rizvi said. Billions of ammunition rounds and hundreds of thousands of weapons were smuggled over the border on mules and camels, writes US journalist George Crile in his detailed account of the CIA’s backing of the anti-Soviet jihad, “Charlie Wilson’s War.”

Gul blames not Reagan but his successors for the sprouting of Al-Qaeda from 1995. “It was derivative of American wrong policies following after Reagan. It was (George) Bush the first who started reversing policies, he abandoned Afghanistan and the urge for democracy awakened in the hearts of these Muslim fighters was ruthlessly curbed.”

 

[Galahad]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Personally, I don't care why he did it. I think it was the right decision, and I applaud him for it.

Yep