Thinking about DVC - need some advice!

[CanadaDisney05]

Lol. I hope that remark was made to make us laugh out loud. No f. P. Would ever recommend a timeshare.

The financial advisor is not hired to determine what your goals should be. It's to develop a strategy so that you can achieve these goals.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Don't think that is by accident, it is very much done on purpose. When you set the price of the hotel room astronomically high, you can then set the price of the DVC only ridiculously high and have it look like a bargain by comparison. I'm not saying it's a scam, because it's not, it's clever marketing and product positioning. But it also kind of feels like a bit of a scam. It's not, but it feels a little like it is.

For what it's worth, you can get the Four Seasons or the Waldorf for half the price and it's a much nicer property. You can get the Swolphin for a third of the price and that's also very nice, and better located. Disney better smarten up, this isn't going to last forever. We are very close to going back to being an off-site family. I'm tired of getting gouged and I don't think I'm alone in that thinking.

I agree and disagree. Yes, this is a brilliant marketing strategy that does make DVC look more attractive than it ought to be on a macro scale. However, from an individual consumer's point of view, you don't have control of rack rates. You can't bargain with Disney to bring down the price because you believe it to be an unfair markup. If you want to stay at these hotels, those are the prices. They are essentially set in stone.

As for the FS and S&D, there are other factors, some are economical and some are not. 1) You don't get Magical Express. Add probably $100 to your stay for a return trip to the airport. 2) From FS, you don't have access to disney transportation, so you need a rental car + parking. Add $35 per day for the car + $25 per day for parking. From SD, you can walk to two parks, but I don't believe they have their own bussing, so you have to walk over to BW or BC to use their bussing system to get anywhere else. Otherwise, you need the rental car. 3) Then there is the non-economic benefit/non-benefit of "staying in the bubble", and whatever that is worth to you.

 

[disney11fan]

The financial advisor is not hired to determine what your goals should be. It's to develop a strategy so that you can achieve these goals.

Lol. I would run away from this f. P.

 

[SheriRae]

I'm relatively new to all of this knowledge regarding DVC and I'd like to have some input from you all here.

My fiance and I did a DVC tour during our trip in August. During that trip, we were staying at Boardwalk (which we both love!), but we really wanted to check out the DVC rooms at Wilderness Lodge. We did our DVC tour at Wilderness Lodge, and although we never stayed there, we were interested in buying in there. Of course, we were steered towards Riviera the entire tour. CCV had just gone up in price and Riviera was cheaper, we'd get more bang for our buck with Riviera, Riviera was the new Grand Floridian, yada yada yada.

We got caught up in all the hype, and honestly, thank goodness they left us for a few minutes alone, or we would've probably just bought in that day. Lots of things were going through our minds at the time, especially when it came to buying in at Riviera. Here were a few of my concerns:

• The resale issue with the new resorts (Riviera & Reflections) - we plan on going to Disney several times a year, and like everyone who purchases DVC, have no intention of selling our points down the road, but we know anything can happen in life that may require us to sell them.
• Skyliner - I think the Skyliner is awesome - especially since Epcot is one of our favorite parks and we would have easy access to it. Call me petty, but I'm not thrilled about how Riviera is supposed to be in the same category as Grand Floridian, but it shares a transportation system with value and moderate resorts. There's so much I don't really know about the Skyliner at this point (i.e. are there going to be enough open gondolas for Riviera guests traveling to Epcot since other resorts will have boarded first?). I know it's technically an "Epcot Resort Area" hotel, but I just don't think it's the same as Boardwalk, Yacht, & Beach. If the Skyliner's down, it's only the bus. We loved Boardwalk because we could just walk to HS and Epcot...or take a boat if we really wanted to.
• It's just the two of us right now. We're both not wild about the tower studios at Riviera, but we could look past it. We like staying at a new resort each time we go to WDW. Our goal is to stay at them all.

We're both in our 20s and we plan on taking around 3 trips to WDW per year. We live a few states over so it's relatiely easy to get to Orlando. We have flexible schedules and can take vacation whenever we want to. We plan on buying points next summer (we'll have the cash saved by then - don't want to finance this)

My main questions for you all:

• Could we buy direct from Disney at another DVC resort besides Riviera? I know we'd be subject to that contract's expiration date, but I'm wondering if this could be a good option. How does pricing work on these? I'd rather buy a resort that I know I'd be happy staying in if I couldn't book anything else. Resorts that we are interested in: Contemporary, Boardwalk, Yacht/Beach, and Wilderness Lodge.
• Would we be better off just buying resale at the DVC resort we want to be at?
• We plan on getting annual passes. If we buy resale, what perks would we be missing out on that we wouldn't get with annual passes but would with a direct DVC membership?
• If you could do it all over again, how would you initially buy-in? What advice do you have for us based on our preferences?

Sorry for all the details and questions - this is a pretty big purchase, so I want to be sure we're making an informed decision!

We bought resale BW (2 contracts) and recently bought Riviera. We would definitely go the resale route again for any of the original 14 DVC resorts. It simply saves you a lot of money. We bought BW because it's where we love to stay.

On Riviera, without sounding uppity, we bought there because we can. We love everything about it, paid cash and are looking forward to a couple of weekend stays there each year. Having said that, if we did not already own at BW, we would not have purchased Riviera.

From our experiences, my recommendation would be to buy resale for any of the resorts you mentioned.....Contemporary, Boardwalk, Beach, and Wilderness Lodge. If you are leaning toward Riviera, I would recommend staying there before purchasing.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[CanadaDisney05]

I think your misinterpreting the terminology of goals vs strategy. Goals are non-monetary. Goals are things that you want to achieve and need money in order to achieve.

To have a million dollars saved up by the time you are 65 is not a "goal". The "goal" is to retire at age 65 while maintaining your current standard of living. The "strategy" is to achieve this goal is 1) Figure out how much money per year you need to maintain your current standard of living starting at age 65. 2) Use the 4% rule to determine the lump sum required by age 65 to be able to withdraw this amount annually. 3) Determine how much you have to put away every month in order to save of the required lump sum in the time period. 4) determine what kind of return on investment is required to achieve the lump sum by 65. 5) Find an investment strategy that allows you to get that return.

If your "goal" is to be able to go on a Disney vacation every year and stay in a deluxe resort, your strategy could be to 1) buy DVC to cover the hotel costs. 2) Put away X dollars every month to cover the additional costs.

The financial advisor's purpose is not to tell you what should be important in your life. It's to help you develop a strategy to achieve these things. If the FA starts telling you how to live your life, that's when it's time to find a new FA. Keep in mind, most FA's get paid on a commission by selling you into specific financial products. They want to keep as much money tied up as possible because it increases their competition. It's like a DVC rep trying to pursuade you into buying Riviera direct vs SSR resale. A good rep will help you choose the correct product for you. A rep that is letting bias pursuade them will tell you Riviera is the only product you should consider.

 

[kboo]

(snip)
If you could do it all over again, how would you initially buy-in? What advice do you have for us based on our preferences?

I bought a 25-point contract after restrictions were put in place to disallow resale purchasers from using their points on cruises and the Disney Collection. That was not a deterrent because that’s considered to be a poor use of your points, anyway. So, I have a blue membership card. I have one contract that was purchased after the latest spate of resale restrictions. I bought it only to use at L14 resorts. The rest of my points are grandfathered in to use at RIV and future DVC resorts.​

​

Given the attitude of the current DVC executives, I’m not sure that I would buy now. Not direct. Not resale. The underhanded way that they handled the initial 2020 points charts, the second-class status that they are imposing on resale purchasers, and the building of point-sucking bungalows, cabins and whatever they want to call the outer buildings at Reflections that cause an imbalance in points that result in a number of those villas going into breakage have left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I love my DVC. I got in at a good price for the bulk of my contracts. I’m am unaffected by resale restrictions and I don’t own at Poly or CCV.. But I don’t think that I would become a new owner now with the way things are.​

I, too, bought 25 points direct when that was the level, so I am grandfathered in, but since then have bought additional direct points at RIV. (The horror! The horror!) I started with 160 (resale) + 25 (direct) at BLT, trying to start small with the whole DVC thing, and soon realized that we should have bought more points back then, when they were cheap(er) and without restrictions. I do think that if we had done so, we might not have bought RIV at all. More answers to this Q below ...

Now my sister, who goes to WDW more often than my family, looked into DVC so she could get that Gold AP - but the costs of DVC long-term were more than the AP-discounted rooms she usually books. So ironically it works better for her to continue buying Platinum APs and booking rooms with AP discounts than it does to buy DVC and qualify for a Gold AP each year.

This is actually a strategy that is often overlooked and forgotten! And we used this for a few years before buying DVC!! Before you have kids, it's actually a good way to try a bunch of resorts without the long term commitment/financial entanglement of DVC. I agree with some of the old-timers here although I'm not an old-timer myself - prices for direct and resale are not going to change so much in the next couple of years (unless we end up in a recession, in which case waiting will only benefit you) that you could try getting an AP and going every 11.5 months and see how you make out with room discounts. Also, before you have kids, your travel schedules are more flexible, and you can go when the parks are less crowded, or it costs less points, or when it's easier to find a good deal at a resort you want to try. We didn't think seriously about DVC until our eldest was in school and we had school vacation schedules to contend with - it made it a lot harder to find good deals, and we are generally unwilling to pull our kids out of school for a vacation.

That 40% off cash reservations for RIV is also a great deal.

But I’ve also spent $600 a night at the Grand Floridian.

Christmas 2017 we stayed at the Poly. I don’t even want to say how expensive that was.

I think some long term DVC owners forget just how expensive hotel rooms can be at Disney.

Agree! We went during my 2nd maternity leave after Easter, found a deal through Orbitz, I think for a Grand Floridian hotel room for about $400/nt. That was a "deal." We would never be going to Disney World during the holidays without DVC, and I've loved every "holiday" vacation I've had so far (Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas coming up). Even back in 2016 a good deal was a garden wing room at the Contemporary in late August (monsoons every afternoon) for just under $300/nt.

That said, before buying DVC we had stayed at the Contemporary, AKL and Grand Floridian in hotels, and BWV all on cash reservations with Disney. We'd also rented points at BLT, so we had a good idea what to expect and which resorts we liked.

• Could we buy direct from Disney at another DVC resort besides Riviera? I know we'd be subject to that contract's expiration date, but I'm wondering if this could be a good option. How does pricing work on these? I'd rather buy a resort that I know I'd be happy staying in if I couldn't book anything else. Resorts that we are interested in: Contemporary, Boardwalk, Yacht/Beach, and Wilderness Lodge.

For the other resorts you mentioned, you will save SO much more in resale that *not* being able to book at RIV (and not being able to get the Gold AP) is well worth it. If you really want to try RIV, try renting points or try that 40% cash offer. I don't know how incentives are now, but it's still a sizable chunk of change to plunk down for a timeshare. (Says someone who did buy, direct, but we are a little more settled and have been using DVC for about 3 years now for multiple trips; I feel like we made an informed decision about whether to add on more points at BLT or buy RIV direct, and we are seeing it as a sunk cost, so not *as* concerned about resale restrictions.)

• [*]Would we be better off just buying resale at the DVC resort we want to be at?

YES, unless you are absolutely sure you love RIV and are willing to stay there all the time. Personally I don't feel great about buying RIV direct or resale if it's your ONLY home resort, because, as others have said, it's a higher upfront cost with potentially little chance of getting out intact if you realize you don't want it anymore/life happens/you don't like the resort for your home resort ...

• [*]We plan on getting annual passes. If we buy resale, what perks would we be missing out on that we wouldn't get with annual passes but would with a direct DVC membership?

As others have said, the only one worth any real $ value is the discounts on APs. But as many have also said, owning DVC will change the way you do Disney. We went from going once every 12-16 months to going multiple times a year, making APs a necessity. And we haven't bought the Gold AP yet, because we've been going over Easter and Xmas ... DH and I also have a lot of vacation time and we are older parents in recession proof careers, so we are not missing out on vacations to other places (in the last 3 years we've gone to OBX, VT, locally (NY state), real Paris, Bermuda, other beach vacations, AZ, Vegas ...

The DVC discounts on dining, merchandise and cash rooms are pretty similar to the AP discounts. The strategy @katandmouse posted for her sister might actually work for you for a few years until you see which resorts you actually like/love; you can try out RIV on a cash reservation, etc.

• If you could do it all over again, how would you initially buy-in? What advice do you have for us based on our preferences?

I would have gotten more points, perhaps in 2 smaller contracts, at BLT at the get go. And maybe bought BWV or BCV when they were selling at $100-ish. Now this is with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, of course, but I feel like the 25-point level for direct benefits made sense for the perks - at that time it was $4625 which is pretty easy to recoup in AP savings with a family of 4. That said, I do not place a huge value on the intangibles of having the blue card, but that's also because I have one. You'll see a lot on these boards about feeling on the inside/outside because of direct ownership, and only you know whether the "intangibles" matter to you. We also wanted the 25 points for access to member cruises (for which we'd pay cash), but we haven't done that yet. I did get a great Helly Hansen raincoat in "Norway" that, with the 20% discount, was far less than I would have paid anywhere outside WDW/Amazon/online, but again, that was also something we considered *because* we had the discount, lending more credence to the adage "DVC makes you spend more money, not less."

Another thought - don't only consider your travel preferences now, but do think at least 5 years out. I think it's hard to go beyond that. I thought that since we'd always stayed in deluxe hotel rooms at WDW, we'd be fine with booking a studio all the time. Nope. We've stayed in studios at VGF and BCV, and would again if we needed to save the points, but even with 2 kids who are happy to share a bed, we like 1BR better. If/when you have kids, as they grow, think about whether you'd want more space and a full kitchen and laundry. Because it's available and spending points isn't quite like spending money, it's a little easier to spend the points.

 

[kboo]

Four Seasons is more than $750/night, but I would argue it's worth it if you want a luxurious hotel. And yeah, I stayed in Swolphin recently (for about $100/night) and it made me think long and hard about all my DVC points.

I haven't checked lately, but we NYE at Swolphin was still only about $250/nt back in the spring. That said, it gets old being in a hotel room with 4 people with no laundry or even kitchenette access. We will still stay on occasion, but now that we prefer bigger units (and we own RIV), we have more options. BTW, for our last-minute trip last fall, planned about 6 weeks in advance, we had a choice of staying at the Swan on Marriott points or an SSR studio on our DVC points. We picked the Swan. (Sorry, SSR!)

As for the FS and S&D, there are other factors, some are economical and some are not. 1) You don't get Magical Express. Add probably $100 to your stay for a return trip to the airport. 2) From FS, you don't have access to disney transportation, so you need a rental car + parking. Add $35 per day for the car + $25 per day for parking. From SD, you can walk to two parks, but I don't believe they have their own bussing, so you have to walk over to BW or BC to use their bussing system to get anywhere else. Otherwise, you need the rental car. 3) Then there is the non-economic benefit/non-benefit of "staying in the bubble", and whatever that is worth to you.

The Swolphin is quite bubble-like! A response to some of your points. 1 - You don't get DME but you can book a nice car service for under $100 RT, with car seats/boosters, as well as a grocery stop on the way (which we have never done). It gets you there in about half the time, although you don't have luggage service or cartoons in the nice car. 2 - You absolutely DO get Disney transportation - we do not rent a car when staying at Swolphin. The bus to the various parks is shared with BCV and BWV, as are the Friendships. The boats are too slow if you just want to get there quickly, except the Swolphin is the 1st stop when leaving HS, which is quite nice indeed - that is the one part of the ride that is definitely faster if you can get on a boat without much wait. 3 - there is a character meal at Garden Grove that is a bit less $ and less hectic; it has a pretty terrific pool as well (it's not SAB but is comparable to many of the other resorts; there are actually pools long enough and uncrowded enough to do real laps. Once at the Swan we had a view of HS and the fireworks there; the other time we were on the other side of the building, which had a view of the lake, the plaza and the light show in the evenings. The hotels don't feel quite as Disneyed, but they have a Disney desk, and the people who work there are very nice. Also if doing a split stay with a Disney hotel, they do also do the free luggage transfer. Oh! And I almost forgot - as an elite member (gold or platinum or higher), you get a 4pm checkout, which is great if you are moving to another disney hotel later. Also, we tend to arrive in the AM and the *latest* our room has been ready has been noon. Usually it's ready when we check in.

Oh wait, why did we buy RIV again???!!!

 

[CarolMN]

Very true. Imagine telling a financial advisor the cost of a deluxe room on property compared to a nicer room off-site. If we took the advice of financial planners, no one would be staying on site. And what fun is that? ;-)

Lol. I hope that remark was made to make us laugh out loud. No f. P. Would ever recommend a timeshare.

I've personally worked with financial advisers & certified planners for many years, so IMO, you two either haven't or aren't working with a good one, LOL! A good planner helps you determine your goals & effectively manage your risks. They do NOT tell you how to spend discretionary $$. The good ones are also quite adept at pointing out the pros & cons and possible pitfalls of prospective purchases.

OP - Assuming you are on track to meet your goals & cover your risks (life, health, long-term care. property & liability insurance, etc.), there's absolutely no reason not to buy DVC if you have the funds to do so. It may or may not be the best option for you, and there are many nuances to consider. I applaud your willingness to seek out the information you need to make informed choices. Too many do not and get themselves in trouble. Those are the folks who will end up selling their contracts at a loss in the recession that many seem to think is imminent.

 

[Chuck S]

It is good to seek opinions from a financial advisor. Just as it is good to seek opinions from others around you. When I remodel a rental unit, I like having the input from the people I employ for the remodel. I consider their opinions, sometimes I take their advice, sometimes I don't. But the bottom line is, it is my rental property, just as it is my money and my investments, and the final decisions are mine to make, not theirs.

 

[gjdarbo]

We bought resale BW (2 contracts) and recently bought Riviera. We would definitely go the resale route again for any of the original 14 DVC resorts. It simply saves you a lot of money. We bought BW because it's where we love to stay.

On Riviera, without sounding uppity, we bought there because we can. We love everything about it, paid cash and are looking forward to a couple of weekend stays there each year. Having said that, if we did not already own at BW, we would not have purchased Riviera.

From our experiences, my recommendation would be to buy resale for any of the resorts you mentioned.....Contemporary, Boardwalk, Beach, and Wilderness Lodge. If you are leaning toward Riviera, I would recommend staying there before purchasing.

Good luck with your decision!

Thank you! This is really helpful. I’m leaning more towards resale at one of our more favorite resorts like you mentioned!

 

[gjdarbo]

I've personally worked with financial advisers & certified planners for many years, so IMO, you two either haven't or aren't working with a good one, LOL! A good planner helps you determine your goals & effectively manage your risks. They do NOT tell you how to spend discretionary $$. The good ones are also quite adept at pointing out the pros & cons and possible pitfalls of prospective purchases.

OP - Assuming you are on track to meet your goals & cover your risks (life, health, long-term care. property & liability insurance, etc.), there's absolutely no reason not to buy DVC if you have the funds to do so. It may or may not be the best option for you, and there are many nuances to consider. I applaud your willingness to seek out the information you need to make informed choices. Too many do not and get themselves in trouble. Those are the folks who will end up selling their contracts at a loss in the recession that many seem to think is imminent.

Thank you! We know we want to do it, we’re just trying to figure out the best strategy for us. This forum has definitely been helpful.

 

[DianeW]

We saved $15,000 buying DVC resale. There is no way Disney is going to give me $15,000 in perks or discounts over the life of my contract. I purchase an annual pass for the discount, and cover the cost of the pass that way (I have a bit of a Disney Dooney bag problem ). I'm not interested in the other perks, and they're definitely not worth $15,000.
For us the bottom line was purchasing as many points as we could afford, so that we could go to the parks (and Aulani) as often as possible. That made resale the obvious choice for us.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Thanks for the information! Not married, no kids yet, and most of our traveling includes Disney and Florida panhandle beaches. We're both in healthcare and in positions with good job security, so money and career changes wouldn't be an issue. I'll have over 15 weeks vacation each year, and we're hoping to take several long weekend trips to Disney throughout the year. But I understand the words of caution since we are young - but we are in a financially secure position for DVC at this time.

Politics could change your career. But that's all I'll say about that.