Things not going well with the DDP changes

[FDV]

Did he read the material he was given when he checked into his resort? I find it hard to believe someone would not know what's included before heading to the restaurant.

For all those who didn't know about the changes, how did you know which restaurants were included in the plan? How did you know you needed to make ADRs before your trip?

How did you find out about the park hours, EMHs...

Not everyone can be as smart as you think you are.

 

[FDV]

I'm surprised no one has made this comment. Guess I'll have to point out the obvious. NOTHING disney does is at the flip of a coin. Everything is well thought out, looked into, etc.

Lets look at 3 recent changes.

1. Disney buying land in Hawaii.
2. No more grat or app on the dining plan.
3. "Holiday" pricing at restaurants.

Anyone else think the later two are fueling the first? Disney has to be banking at least 100K a day by not supplying apps or paying the grat. The holiday pricing for restaurants probably pulled in at least 40K a day.

Congrats everyone, you're paying the disney's newest resort to be built.

Right, and they did tell people about the changes, but it was in the fine print, on a brochure that few people would see until it's too late. These are very smart people running WDW. They don't do anything by accident. No doubt this very issue was discussed in detail before they made the changes. I'm sure they thought "Let's not make the changes TOO obvious, or we will scare away potential customers". Anyone that doesn't think that isn't how this went down is looking at the world through glasses coated with pixy dust.

I still enjoy WDW, but I don't want to feed the mouse any more than necessary.

 

[tloft]

I agree with everything you wrote, and you are obviously very knowledgable in this area
HOWEVER
every DDP plan participant is not eating every meal at Le Cellier (which as a steakhouse is probably running a 5-10% profit margin) Given the mix of restaurants at disney, they are eating more often at buffets with a much lower food cost, and eating plan snacks like popcorn - what is the food cost on that? My guess is a profit margin of 90% or better.

I firmly believe that Disney was not only making money, but they were making *plenty* of it too....they just want to make MORE. But that is what business is all about

I agree that obviously not everyone eats at Le Cellier. Given that all the restaurants are booked even in slow season I bet its pretty evenly distributed. I would bet; however, that a menu restaurants people on dp gravitated heavily towards the more expensive items. I'm sure someone will chime in "not me, I got the chicken caesar at so and so..." but I think it is natural that most people know it is prepaid and order the most expensive thing that interests them.

Disney buffets are obviously profitable because of the price, but buffets in general are not as profitable as a lot of people think. There is a tremendous amount of waste and food costs are not nearly as cheap as people assume. Most buffets are mom and pop affairs and don't get particularly good deals on their food through suppliers either. I've seen some invoices for a couple of "ethnic" restaurants in my area (I mention this since around here Chinese buffets are really the only buffet you will find) and they are definately paying at the highest rate.

I absolutely agree with you that Walt Disney World and Walt Disney Inc are not only making money, but more than ever. The dining plan was a great promotional tool that created a tremendous amount of instant loyalty from a lot of people. I think its overall economic benefit the company was probably far greater than its expense. However, a company like Disney isn't unlike the government in its bureaucracy and hierarchy. Also, a company Disney's size isn't just trying to continue making money - the market forces them to continue to grow their market share and make more money. So somebody/people look at an extraordinarly convoluted balance sheet and despite record profits know they are expected to make even more in the next year. Suddenly they notice that restaurant profits are down x%. Bingo - lets get these margins back up so and so amount and we're up this much for 2008 and we all get our big fat bonuses. I also would not be surprised if individual restaurant managers or upper hospitality managers lost jobs or were demoted either - even though they had nothing to do with the implementation of DDP and had absolutely no control over it. No one cares that the profits were down as a part of a promotional incentive that worked wonders.

 

[midge3426]

It is too bad that a lot of people were not informed of the changes in the dining plan. We have decided that the DDP is not longer worth the expense. I noticed some restaurants are no longer on the plan and I do not like the changes. We all must agree that the reatuarants were overpriced at Disney World. They have a captive audience and can charge more. Their profit margin was not as high, but their restuarants were kept full with the old DDP. I kind of hope that people do not like the changes and quit purchasing the plan because the food quality has done a major decline and the restaurants are always full. I hate preplanning six months in advance where I want to eat when I am on vacation. I also heard that the servers no longer wanted the tip included in the plan.

 

[hematite153]

Yes, I confirmed this:

Q. How does the Disney Dining Plan work?
...Applicable taxes and gratuities are already prepaid and included.

Yes. And two days after you posted this information, I just went to the disney website and looked at the FAQs. Not only did I find the piece you quoted, but, a few questions further down it (still) says:

Q. Are gratuities included with the Magic Your Way Plus Dining Package and the Magic Your Way Premium Package?
A. Yes. As a benefit of purchasing these packages, all gratuities are automatically included where applicable.

I should add, you actually have to search for that FAQ.

I didn't really have to search at all. I just went to the standard FAQs and clicked on the link for Ticket & Package FAQs.

I'm not on the DDP and never was. But let me ask--when you purchase it (or get it purchased for you from a travel agent, etc) don't they send you SOMETHING explaining the plan??

I have NEVER been sent information from disney when booking the DDP. I have received a brochure about it at check-in roughly 2/3 of the times I have used it.

They sent me a packet with information on the deluxe plan for my Sep trip, so Disney is sending stuff.

Hey! How do I get them to start sending me this stuff?! I booked a Sept. DxDP trip 4 months ago, but, haven't received anything other than a single piece of paper.

As to the handouts, we were late getting in the last time, we checked in, got our cards, and headed straight out to La Boma. I didn't even know which building our room was in until after dinner.

They don't always include everything either. On our last trip we checked in and were given the standard folder, but all it had in it was the resort map with our room number. When I asked where all the other pieces were they said, "oh, we ran out."

When we checked in on Jan 1, 2007 we were given our cards and nothing else. When we came back later in the day and asked for papers (inc. information on finding our room) we were given a copy of the 2006 Dining Plan brochure and told, "the 2007 one isn't in yet". This wasn't a big deal since the changes were minor, but, we did have a few problems that were understandable when we moved to our next resort and got the new brochure.

Since I am a mystery shopper I have always figured that Disney would be a fool if they did not surf sites such as these and I know they are not. What a wonderful source of free information we all are HOWEVER, we are far from the average guest.

And yet, TWO days after the error in the FAQ was posted here, it is still readily available.

Believe me, I won't take this out on the servers. I knew about the changes and will behave accordingly when I head to wdw next week. However, I am seriously considering a follow-up letter to wdw management.

I am not accusing anyone of lying. All I am saying is that the info was there.

Yes, but, so was the misinformation. I went looking for the current 2008 dining plan brochure this afternoon (before reading this thread) on disney's website because I had heard rumours that Tokyo Dining had been added and I wanted to confirm this.

By following different sets of links I managed to download THREE different 2008 Dining Plan Brochures. Yes, they all say 2008 at the top of them, but, they include different restaurants and say that different things are included/excluded.

If I hadn't known what I was doing, I'd probably have just assumed that the first one I downloaded was correct and stopped looking.

 

[TheDizDad]

The averages were calculated by adding up all the items in a specific category for a specific restaurant and then dividing by the number of items in that category. So, if you look at the Coral Reef in 2007 the average price for a full meal on the DDP (avg appetizer + avg entree + avg dessert + avg drink + tax + 18% gratuity) was $52.35. In 2008 the average price for a full meal on the DDP (avg entree + avg dessert + avg drink + tax) was $34.72. That is a loss of $17.63 between the 2007 and 2008 plans.

The 2008 plan is in the right columns and the 2007 plan is in the left columns. Disney did not lower prices, but raised them. Sorry it was confusing.

Looks to me like the total cost of the bills just got lower. That means that DDP holders will tip on a smaller amount now. With the average tip being no more than 15%...waiters will now get less money due to those two things. It also leaves the gratuity in the hands of the guest. What if a family of four doesn't think the server was worth even a 10% gratuity? You know it's going to happen. A busy night in the restaurant. Kids flying everywhere. Food takes a long time. The guests get frustrated...etc. I know a gratuity could be added to the guests room but all he/she has to do is tell the desk that the service didn't deserve any kind of tip. Or they paid the tip in cash and left it on the table. This will get very interesting. In a way I feel sorry for the servers but in turn it may be good for the guest too. It may raise the level of service from the wait staff now too. (we've usually had great servers anyway) My wife and I used to be servers as well and we tip between 15 and 20% if the service is good. But I can very swayed in the other direction quickly if we get lousy service. (i.e. forgetting things, long time for check, order is wrong, not paying any attention to us etc...)

I think Disney will have to re-think this. They would have been better off raising the price a couple of dollars per person per meal. I'll be watching along with TheDizMom.

 

[DaParkers]

Subscribing

 

[Tiger926]

Just got caught up on this thread as baby and I went to bed very early last night.

A few more observations:

1. I made my ressie for this April/May in August through DVC Member Services. I made it, coincidentally, the same day the Deluxe Plan came out for booking. Although MS usually messes up my ADRs in some way, they had already been briefed about the new changes to the plans (they had been briefed on all three: regular, deluxe & wine) and she told me that even though we had been so many times, she still had to read me the new info. I totally agreed, and she spent a few minutes on explaining that tips were not included in any of the new plans, but that we would still get appetizers on the deluxe plan. Of course, I already knew this from being on here, but at least one department was doing their job properly.

2. As an English teacher, I can assure you that most people don't properly arm themselves with info: sign documents of which they haven't read, sign up for packages, like the DP, and don't read the brochures, etc. I believe this is totally irresponsible of people to do this, but, it is human nature as most people are too lazy to do so. This is not rocket science, so, Disney knowing this, should have made the new changes available in a very timely manner. They should not expect guests to have to frequent Internet message boards to acquire info about their vacation destinations. That being said, the WDW website is a mess, as is our DVC website as there are several versions of Dining Plan brochures floating around, with incorrect information. That being known, Disney totally dropped the ball in regards to updating all of those pieces of info - I'm sure there were some guests, like us, who wanted the info, searched it out and printed it out, only to arrive at WDW and be ambushed by the changes. I'm pretty sure those guests are in the minority, as most (as evidenced by many responses in this thread), even seasoned people like Disers, don't read most of what is given to them. In regular circumstances, I would say that the guests deserve any and all consequences of these actions, but in this case, I would not, as Disney didn't update or brief its employees on the new changes, let alone their paying guests who are now sujbect to these changes. In this case, a simple, "All info subject to change," is not enough to fix this situation.

All around, a big mess! As I already mentioned, I bet most guests don't spend tons of time on WDW's website looking for info about their packages, and, they shouldn't have to. That website is a mess as it's very convoluted and confusing to navigate, and I've been on it a million times! Regular guests (those who aren't as well informed as most of us Disers) will not be able to, nor are they interested in looking for this info. They see save 40% with Dining Plan, and that is enough for them and Disney knows this! That's why they are master marketers - I believe they didn't inform all parties (their own employees included) as most people when ambushed, will adjust accordingly. I'm not sure why they thought this would be the case though since it's dealing with people's hard earned cash?

Another perfect example of not having forsight and not putting care and attention into your work. I teach at-risk students, and this is one skill that I'm constantly teaching them - I think I'll use this whole debacle as a way of showing them what can happen when you don't properly prepare - whether it's Disney corporate, restaurant managers or guests who don't read their printed literature upon check-in, this is going to be a great teaching tool for my students as I'll discuss with them what steps should happen now in order to fix the situation?

Very interesting thread, Tiger

 

[NMW]

Can anybody answer my question--do you actually receive information about the 2008 DDP after you buy it??
What I'm trying to establish is if all of those complaining were actually given wrong or erroneous information, or were simply lazy and didn't check what WAS given to them. Or worse, well knew the new policy and simply decided to save even MORE $$$ by not tipping. And cover that up by displays of mock outrage over the new policy.

I can only speak for myself. I changed my room only BC ressie to a package with the deluxe dining plan the week the packages came out. The CM I spoke to was VERY clear that tips are not included. She explained the Basic plan, the Deluxe plan and the wine add-on very clearly. Several times during the explanation she stated that tips were no longer included with any plan. It sounded like she was reading something. I'm surprised so many people were not told. To answer your question, I did not recieve anything in the mail about the deluxe plan. Just my confirmation sheet via email. We leave in May, so maybe Disney will send something when it gets closer.

 

[robinb]

Looks to me like the total cost of the bills just got lower. That means that DDP holders will tip on a smaller amount now.

Good point. The Coral Reef example I used before has a pre-tax/pre-grat difference of $10 per adult. That means that servers are losing out on $1.80 in gratuities per adult DDP guest even if those guests tip 18%.

 

[LexPlayer]

hematite153- just read your post - I'm not sure where this anti-consumer backlash is coming from.

In this case, a simple, "All info subject to change," is not enough to fix this situation.

 

[robemcdo]

I realize that many of you that visit these discussion boards are very well versed about everything Disney. However, you must also realize that for most people, their preparation does not go much beyond. booking, packing and arriving. Prior to this week, I did not even know this board existed.

This a a valuable forum to find information, and anyone who visits this board on a regular basis, surely would not have faced any of the troubles that my brother encountered.

But for those who relied solely on the service provider (Disney) to provide relevant information, this really turned into an unfortunate situation.

I hold Disney fully responsible for this fiasco. And what is most annoying, they must have seen this coming. Instead of pointing fingers at the guests suggesting that they knew the change was coming and 'acted' surprised to get out of the costs, perhaps we should look more at the angle where Disney did not get the information out to the guests, knowing full well that many might opt out of the new plan, and take their money elsewhere.

 

[Rylee]

And to go back to the topic at hand - what is so hard to believe about people not being provided or seeing info that does not correctly outline the '08 plan? I have to wonder why people are getting so lathered over this - it has been noted time and time again that if you ask 20 CM's a yes or no question you get 20 different answers from absolutely yes to positively no and everything in between.

I agree.

I don't understand all the smugness.

I don't understand all the blame.

For the few, (and I believe the number is low compared to the number of guest on the DP) guest currently at WDW, who were unaware of the changes, for whatever reason... lack of info, wrong info, regardless of the source... CM's, TA's, buyer's beware, Aunt Susie... it has to be putting a damper on their Dream Vacation.

Many of these guest are hundreds of miles from home and have so much invested, usually with children in tow, and to have an unexpected expense cut into their spending money could be a real concern for some families.

As sure as I am that there are a few guest that truly didn't know, I am equally sure there are guest who will always try to use any given situation to their advantage.

As for us, we will use the DP on our 2008 vacation. We like the convenience.

 

[skater]

I agree.

I don't understand all the smugness.

I don't understand all the blame.

For the few, (and I believe the number is low compared to the number of guest on the DP) guest currently at WDW, who were unaware of the changes, for whatever reason... lack of info, wrong info, regardless of the source... CM's, TA's, buyer's beware, Aunt Susie... it has to be putting a damper on their Dream Vacation.

Many of these guest are hundreds of miles from home and have so much invested, usually with children in tow, and to have an unexpected expense cut into their spending money could be a real concern for some families.

As sure as I am that there are a few guest that truly didn't know, I am equally sure there are guest who will always try to use any given situation to their advantage.

As for us, we will use the DP on our 2008 vacation. We like the convenience.

ITA And I think it is Disney's responsibility to have the correct info. available. How can people know about it, if it wasn't even updated on their website? If I didn't know about the DIS, I would think I had prepared myself by talking with CM's and reading Disney's website. That should be enough and the fact that its not is a reflection on Disney, not the consumer.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

I can only speak for myself. I changed my room only BC ressie to a package with the deluxe dining plan the week the packages came out. The CM I spoke to was VERY clear that tips are not included. She explained the Basic plan, the Deluxe plan and the wine add-on very clearly. Several times during the explanation she stated that tips were no longer included with any plan. It sounded like she was reading something. I'm surprised so many people were not told. To answer your question, I did not recieve anything in the mail about the deluxe plan. Just my confirmation sheet via email. We leave in May, so maybe Disney will send something when it gets closer.

That's odd, because my trip isn't until September, and I already got something.

 

[NMW]

That's odd, because my trip isn't until September, and I already got something.

Maybe because the CM offered to email the confirmation? I have to call them to add limo transportation anyway. I'm going to ask for dining plan info to be sent to me.

 

[moparop]

It seems as thought the people who said they received something were on the deluxe plan. I wonder if WDW only sent out info on that plan as it was brand new??

 

[Devil_Dog99]

I don't have time to read all the posts now, but I wanted to contribute my .02:

- When the DDP plan first came out, I saw a lot of complaints on these boards about since the tip was included in the cost, the servers had no incentive to provide top service and therefore just did the minimum to get folks fed and on their way. Removing the tip actually encourages good service, because then the server has to 'earn' the gratuity.

- Tip or no tip, the DDP is NOT for everyone. If you want the convenience and don't care about cost, then go right ahead. But as others have said, who can eat all that food? I think someone at allears did a side by side (or it could have been here, or in the UG - I forget) that compared the various eating options using the plan. If you are a foodie and LOVE to eat while on vacation, then you will make out like a bandit (high priced TS meals each day). If you are a fussy eater or eat like a bird, you actually stand to LOSE money. The middle of the road said you could find a way to either come out a little ahead or a little behind, depending on where you ate. Since DW is fussy, and I fall into the middle of the road, the DDP was not for us.

- From what I can see, removing the tip and appetizer is a massive increase in the overall 'cost' to the consumer. Kind of like the price of that half gallon of ice cream is still $4.99, but it's now only 1.75 quarts. It almost gurantees you will have to eat large to justify cost.

- I fault both WDW and guests for the furor. WDW should have warned guests at checkin and/or sent out letters highlighting the changes (letters only for those who booked pre-change). If you are implementing a change in policy, you need to communicate it. Also, have the servers announce the change at seating, either by verbally telling the guest or handing them a letter highlighting said changes. No surprises at end of meal. I fault the guests because Jim Hill's article says the guests raising the most heck are repeat guests. Anyone who has been to WDW more than once knows WDW is ALWAYS tinkering with things. They should know to do their homework.

To paraphrase, you can't please all the people all the time. As WDW always does (and I just said), they will tinker and tinker. How many different FP methods have there been? Don't know they will ever get it completely right, but at least they are trying.

And no one should get that freaking angry over something like that - geez.

 

[VacationDad]

(letters only for those who booked pre-change). .

No letters needed. You couldn't book pre-change.

 

[distherapy]

With the exception of the UK guest, was anyone able to book the DDP before the changes were announced? I had to wait to book my Feb trip dining plan and tickets and when I could book them, the no tip/appetizer was in the brochure. (This was all pre-DIS for me, too, so the only way I knew was through Disney)

I can understand if I had used the plan for years, I might not read the brochure as closely (my fault), or question to CM when booking - but didn't the plan name change, too, with the addition of the Deluxe plans? You'd think that might alert some people when they were asked which plan they wanted.

Maybe I'm just naive...