The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[orum]

You would hope.

I don’t think they are related, but just figured due to timing that 16+ (not 18+ that I mistakenly said earlier) will be done before less than age 12 meets the criteria of being in phase 3 with enough data for emergency authorization.

 

[orum]

Unfortunately, people won't think twice. I'm ok with getting the vaccine, but I'm not ok with my son getting it. I hope Disney does the right thing and keeps it at 18 and over.

As of right now, everyone 12+ has the same authorization. I hope they just continue to follow the eligibility criteria as the other lines are doing.

I haven’t heard anything about exactly expectation for when less than age 12 would even be eligible to get it. I just went looking and found a reference to late fall or later this year, whatever that means. (Not very specific)

 

[mevelandry]

Now that covid rates are way down and the fact that CDC is investigating reports of myocarditis in vaccinated young people. I would definitely think twice before forcing this vaccine on a healthy child, even if it means we can cruise.

Reports from the media says "some". What does that even mean? 1 in 250 000? 1 in 100 000? They are pretty vague...

But yes, they should definitely investigate. Just like they did with AZ and thrombosis.

 

[Mousequake]

Reports from the media says "some". What does that even mean? 1 in 250 000? 1 in 100 000? They are pretty vague...

But yes, they should definitely investigate. Just like they did with AZ and thrombosis.

My wife's been in a lot of email chains about the myocarditis over the past week or so-- right now, about twenty cases nationwide have been reported.

 

[blabadie]

My wife's been in a lot of email chains about the myocarditis over the past week or so-- right now, about twenty cases nationwide have been reported.

Yes, and from what I've read the incidence rate is still within the normal parameters found in the general population. When viewed in this statistical light, I think this will not prove to be an issue unless it begins to occur at a rate higher than the general population (and higher than the cardiac risks associated with covid itself).

That being said, I remain hesitant to try a new vaccine on my young children given the risk/return proposition for their ages--and these types of potential issues (despite their statistical unlikelihood) keep me leaning towards the wait and see approach.

I am happy that the CDC is discussing this issue openly, because at least it gives a sense that they are taking potential risks seriously, rather than trying to sweep them under the rug.

 

[DCLMP]

My wife's been in a lot of email chains about the myocarditis over the past week or so-- right now, about twenty cases nationwide have been reported.

....and how many kids have died of Covid this week.....Just saying.

 

[DCLMP]

As of right now, everyone 12+ has the same authorization. I hope they just continue to follow the eligibility criteria as the other lines are doing.

I haven’t heard anything about exactly expectation for when less than age 12 would even be eligible to get it. I just went looking and found a reference to late fall or later this year, whatever that means. (Not very specific)

I'm just curious why you think teenagers should get the vaccine. When they have literally no risk of dying from covid and you as an old person should be protected because you had the vaccine.

 

[Sykes]

I'm just curious why you think teenagers should get the vaccine. When they have literally no risk of dying from covid and you as an old person should be protected because you had the vaccine.

“Literally no risk” is a strange way of saying that as of April 15th, 2,219 children under the age of 9 have died of COVID in Brazil alone (source), and many more have evidence long term damage that might debilitate them into adulthood. There is a bit less data about teenagers, but presumably it’s above zero.

We must have different definitions of “literally no risk”. And regardless of measure, COVID is very clearly orders of magnitude more dangerous than the vaccine.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

....and how many kids have died of Covid this week.....Just saying.

And how does the incidence of myocarditis after the vaccine compare to the incidence of myocarditis or other heart issues after having COVID? Doctors are finding heart damage in patients with mild to moderate COVID symptoms.

I'm glad the CDC is looking into these reports regarding myocarditis after the vaccine, but remember that death isn't the only negative outcome of a COVID infection. Mild myocarditis can go away on it's own without treatment. Leaky heart valves caused by a mild COVID infection are a little more tricky.

 

[DCLMP]

“Literally no risk” is a strange way of saying that as of April 15th, 2,219 children under the age of 9 have died of COVID in Brazil alone (source), and many more have evidence long term damage that might debilitate them into adulthood. There is a bit less data about teenagers, but presumably it’s above zero.

We must have different definitions of “literally no risk”. And regardless of measure, COVID is very clearly orders of magnitude more dangerous than the vaccine.

Could those kids have died because of a lack of good healthcare? The chance of a child surviving covid is 99.9999% so I can totally see why they need an experimental vaccine. We have no idea what the long-term effects of these new kinds of vaccines are going to cause.

 

[DCLMP]

And how does the incidence of myocarditis after the vaccine compare to the incidence of myocarditis or other heart issues after having COVID? Doctors are finding heart damage in patients with mild to moderate COVID symptoms.

I'm glad the CDC is looking into these reports regarding myocarditis after the vaccine, but remember that death isn't the only negative outcome of a COVID infection. Mild myocarditis can go away on it's own without treatment. Leaky heart valves caused by a mild COVID infection are a little more tricky.

What are the stats on myocarditis after a covid infection in children?

 

[DCLMP]

I'm sorry, but I don't my kid that's had covid should have to get an experimental vaccine just to have a normal life and get to do things other kids get to do.

 

[Mousequake]

What are the stats on myocarditis after a covid infection in children?

Exact stats are difficult to pinpoint because myocarditis can be caused by a host of different things, but here's some info on the subject:

https://www.novanthealth.org/healthy-headlines/covid-19-could-lead-to-heart-damage-in-children
https://www.acepnow.com/article/is-...cidence-of-covid-related-myocarditis-in-kids/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7376531/

 

[cmph]

I'm just curious why you think teenagers should get the vaccine. When they have literally no risk of dying from covid and you as an old person should be protected because you had the vaccine.

Just curious - do you have a teenager, who is in mainstream school and activities? I'm 100% not trying to be snarky and purely want to understand your frame of reference. I'm saying this as someone who has a teenager (mainstream school and activities) who has had to quarantine due to exposure, which meant missing school plus activities. None of that stopped now just because (some) adults were vaccinated. (Certainly not al! Both my kids have had teachers out with covid in the last couple of weeks.) It's been very stressful for that age group. Some went through multiple rounds of quarantine, b/c it spread quite a lot through high school sets. Additionally, this age group has witnessed classmates and friends get very ill from covid, so the danger is real to them, regardless of death. This was, of course, a byproduct of being the fortunate ones who were able to attend in-person school since the fall, arguably better than those who were online for a year... but still, they are now the ones who missed or know kids their age who missed AP exams or soccer championship finals or dance recitals, or lost their sense of taste/smell for 4 months (one of my child's closest friends). Many of these teens are very anxious to get vaccinated. If none of them get it, then they just remain on the same loop of quarantines as they continue to spread it, and they're mature enough to understand that.

 

[Mousequake]

I have not and never would try to educate people on the risks.

Huh. Has your stance on never trying to educate people about risk changed?

I'm just curious why you think teenagers should get the vaccine. When they have literally no risk of dying from covid and you as an old person should be protected because you had the vaccine.

Could those kids have died because of a lack of good healthcare? The chance of a child surviving covid is 99.9999% so I can totally see why they need an experimental vaccine. We have no idea what the long-term effects of these new kinds of vaccines are going to cause.

 

[mevelandry]

....and how many kids have died of Covid this week.....Just saying.

The articles I have seen mention a few teenagers and young adults before the age of 30 suffering from myocarditis (I think I read that 6 have died but can't find the article again) ...

... while in the USA only, 300 children (under 18 years old) have died from COVID so far.

Until proven otherwise, the vaccine is still safer than COVID... Even for kids.

 

[mevelandry]

Could those kids have died because of a lack of good healthcare? The chance of a child surviving covid is 99.9999% so I can totally see why they need an experimental vaccine. We have no idea what the long-term effects of these new kinds of vaccines are going to cause.

"Kids don't get sick" is the argument most people who are moderately or strongly against the vaccine (for kids) make most of the time. If they didn't get sick, they wouldn't need health care. They would simply stay at home a few days like most of us do when we get a common cold.

If they can get sick enough to need healthcare, then they most likely need the vaccine.

 

[MrFish]

"Kids don't get sick" is the argument most people who are moderately or strongly against the vaccine (for kids) make most of the time. If they didn't get sick, they wouldn't need health care. They would simply stay at home a few days like most of us do when we get a common cold.

If they can get sick enough to need healthcare, then they most likely need the vaccine.

I'm sure people will make the best decision based on risk for their children, which if they have no other underlying conditions is extremely low. If i had child with comorbidities I may make a different decision. As a healthy man, based on risk I have no reason to have a vaccine which has not been time-tested and I certainly won't be having it "for the greater good" whilst the vast majority of the population eats themselves to death.

 

[tee11]

I'm glad it will be followed and investigated (like with AZ and thrombosis). Sadly, in regards to myocarditis in children up to Feb 2021 roughly 1100 kids in the US (majority of which were previously healthy - in contrast to those children with acute severe Covid) had been diagnosed with MIS-C after Covid (one third of those kids were in ICUs for weeks since MIS-C causes inflammation of the heart among other things). By the beginning of May 2021 that number was up to nearly 3800 children (and 35 deaths) in the US from MIS-C (MIS-C only, not severe acute Covid, nor taking into accout sequelae such as for now subclinical heart failure from Covid without MIS-C that won't become evident until much later).

 

[DCLMP]

Just curious - do you have a teenager, who is in mainstream school and activities? I'm 100% not trying to be snarky and purely want to understand your frame of reference. I'm saying this as someone who has a teenager (mainstream school and activities) who has had to quarantine due to exposure, which meant missing school plus activities. None of that stopped now just because (some) adults were vaccinated. (Certainly not al! Both my kids have had teachers out with covid in the last couple of weeks.) It's been very stressful for that age group. Some went through multiple rounds of quarantine, b/c it spread quite a lot through high school sets. Additionally, this age group has witnessed classmates and friends get very ill from covid, so the danger is real to them, regardless of death. This was, of course, a byproduct of being the fortunate ones who were able to attend in-person school since the fall, arguably better than those who were online for a year... but still, they are now the ones who missed or know kids their age who missed AP exams or soccer championship finals or dance recitals, or lost their sense of taste/smell for 4 months (one of my child's closest friends). Many of these teens are very anxious to get vaccinated. If none of them get it, then they just remain on the same loop of quarantines as they continue to spread it, and they're mature enough to understand that.

I'm not trying to be snarky either, but my teenager already has immunity. Yet gets treated like he doesn't.