The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[AquaDame]

I took a moment to lock the thread and remove the posts that were attacking each other. If this continues this thread will be locked permanently.

 

[MrFish]

My post was removed for saying that only 50 percent of CDC staff are vaccinated and that I wouldn't vaccinate my kids as it hasn't been time tested and they are more at risk from the vaccine than covid. I didn't quote anybody or mention anybody else so I'm not sure what is going on. I usually browse this forum anonymously, hopefully it doesn't become an echo chamber like another Disney forum.

 

[AquaDame]

My post was removed for saying that only 50 percent of CDC staff are vaccinated and that I wouldn't vaccinate my kids as it hasn't been time tested and they are more at risk from the vaccine than covid. I didn't quote anybody or mention anybody else so I'm not sure what is going on. I usually browse this forum anonymously, hopefully it doesn't become an echo chamber like another Disney forum.

Source? Last I heard the number was not 50% AND your original post did not clearly differentiate the danger between kids and adults when you said the vaccine was more dangerous than covid. If you read back through the last 20 pages you'll see a lot of posts from both sides. The most radical and argumentative of each are the only ones that get the axe.

 

[Trera]

It's not missing. It just isn't something that we need to take into consideration. If you feel that way then great for you. I don't. There are a lot of things we could push on people since it would protect others or improve society (ie; not allowing any junk food at all in society, limiting how many children people could have, etc.) but we don't because we have freedoms in the US and most of the modern world.

No vaccine comes without risk and I'm sorry but I'm not just going to take that risk for me or my child when I feel that the risk outweighs the benefit. Point, blank, Period!

Everything has risks. Driving in your car, flying in a plane, walking around in a thunder/lightning storm, swimming in the ocean, smoking, etc. My guess is there are numerous things that people are doing every day that have more statistical risk than the Covid Vaccine so it seems odd for someone to position themselves behind the risk if it.

Just call it a choice..................you dont have to give a reason. You dont have to convince anyone else not to get one................just like anyone else doesnt have to convince you to get one.

 

[tink2424]

Everything has risks. Driving in your car, flying in a plane, walking around in a thunder/lightning storm, swimming in the ocean, smoking, etc. My guess is there are numerous things that people are doing every day that have more statistical risk than the Covid Vaccine so it seems odd for someone to position themselves behind the risk if it.

Just call it a choice..................you dont have to give a reason. You dont have to convince anyone else not to get one................just like anyone else doesnt have to convince you to get one.

Very true. Everything is a choice and we all do risk assessments living our lives. The problem is when some people are saying that it shouldn't be a choice or that some are wrong for making a choice.

We all need to not worry so much about what everyone else is doing...

 

[hrhdhd]

Source? Last I heard the number was not 50% AND your original post did not clearly differentiate the danger between kids and adults when you said the vaccine was more dangerous than covid. If you read back through the last 20 pages you'll see a lot of posts from both sides. The most radical and argumentative of each are the only ones that get the axe.

Fauci said in testimony before the Senate that he'd guess 60% of NIH employees have been vaccinated, and Walensky dodged the question. See here at 2:25:50:

 

[Trera]

Very true. Everything is a choice and we all do risk assessments living our lives. The problem is when some people are saying that it shouldn't be a choice or that some are wrong for making a choice.

We all need to not worry so much about what everyone else is doing...

Was there someone that said it shouldn't be a choice to get vaccinated? if they did, I must have missed it.

I did see a reference I believe where it was discussed that if you wanted to cruise with DCL then you must be vaccinated....................that is a little different position to me because anyone could remain unvaccinated, but they couldnt go on a DCL cruise.

Statistics are great for many things but they can be used to promote or argue against a position. I agree with your reasoning that each person/family should look at all available intel and make the best choice for themselves knowing the possible outcomes OR social limitations.

We decided to get the vaccine based on our situation and so far it has worked out. I wish everyone all the wisdom in your arsenal when choosing for yourself.

 

[AquaDame]

Fauci said in testimony before the Senate that he'd guess 60% of NIH employees have been vaccinated, and Walensky dodged the question. See here at 2:25:50:

Thank you - I wanted to say 60% but I wasn't 100% sure.

 

[MrFish]

Source? Last I heard the number was not 50% AND your original post did not clearly differentiate the danger between kids and adults when you said the vaccine was more dangerous than covid. If you read back through the last 20 pages you'll see a lot of posts from both sides. The most radical and argumentative of each are the only ones that get the axe.

My post certainly wasn't radical and it was clear I was talking about the risks to children. I stated "there is zero chance I would vaccinate my children when the risk from the vaccine is higher than that of the disease".

Regarding 40-50 percent of the CDC and NIH being vaccinated, Dr Fauci confirmed this the other day on live TV to the senate.

 

[AquaDame]

My post certainly wasn't radical and it was clear I was talking about the risks to children. I stated "there is zero chance I would vaccinate my children when the risk from the vaccine is higher than that of the disease".

Regarding 40-50 percent of the CDC and NIH being vaccinated, Dr Fauci confirmed this the other day on live TV to the senate.

To be clear I was not saying yours was radical - I said that for the benefit of anyone who feels this is an "echo chamber". It goes for both sides when people get out of hand - I try hard to keep both sides open on the dialog even though it can lead to arguments.

As posted above the number is 60%, not 50% or 40%, and I did not find your statement clear in the original post. You've since made it clear, and none of those have been removed.

 

[TestingH2O]

If you read back through the last 20 pages you'll see a lot of posts from both sides. The most radical and argumentative of each are the only ones that get the axe.

You’ve done a great job with this thread both in giving people space, keeping things reasonably civil, and keeping the misinformation in check.

 

[Intr3pid]

Peak vaccination is the next area of concern. The 'herd immunity' target of vaccinating 70% of the population looks like a tough nut to crack. At least by this summer.

Here are some charts based on the data from:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=OWID_WRL
United States

The US has opened up vaccine eligibility to pretty much everyone 16+, so most adults who want one already have at least one shot in their arms. Yet, the chart is leveling off at a level that is a far cry from herd immunity:

View attachment 575344


Less than 10% of the population has had the infection, so that still doesn't get us to the 70% number. Plus, a large proportion of them are already included in the vaccination counts.

The newly expanded 12-15 demographic is going to provide some support in the short-term. (I will keep an eye on the data.) On a daily basis, peak vaccination was on April 3, 2021, when 2.4 million newly vaccinated joined the ranks. That number is now down to 630,000 yesterday.

UK

In the UK, they haven't yet filtered through all age groups (still working on the 30+ demographic). There was a steep dropoff after the negative AstraZeneca news broke out., but we are seeing some uptake as they open up more age groups. We will have a better idea once the 16+ or 12+ groups start getting their shots.

View attachment 575345


Canada

Understandably, Canadians are yet to reach peak vaccination. The pace seems to be picking up actually. It might have to do with the strategy to getting more folks vaccinated than fewer more quickly. There is also an incentive to get one shot before the summer - and to exit those lockdowns.

View attachment 575348

It looks like you tend to level off as you approach the 50% mark, so it will be interesting to see if the Canadians follow the Americans and the Brits into the final stretch.

Of course, not everyone has to be vaccinated. What's a good level to leave it at? Looks like quantity may not be as important as quality:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robert...ated-countries-heres-why-the-us-should-worry/

Note that the broader US population is sitting at about 46% vaccinated with the first dose and only 36% with both doses. If Fauci thinks that 60% of NIH is fully vaccinated, that's quite a delta.

 

[MrFish]

Whether it's 50/60 percent is neither here or there. The point is that the the people making the rules and telling everybody to get vaccinated are not vaccinated themselves. Maybe they should "follow the science".

 

[AquaDame]

Note that the broader US population is sitting at about 46% vaccinated with the first dose and only 36% with both doses. If Fauci thinks that 60% of NIH is fully vaccinated, that's quite a delta.

Its noteworthy that the NIH doesn't employ those under 18 though... I'm assuming at least 46% & 36% are ALL the US population and not just adults..? Or if it does, my state is pedal to the floor comparatively; we're at 56.6% of those currently eligible and on target to hit our goal of 70% by mid to late June.

 

[AquaDame]

Whether it's 50/60 percent is neither here or there. The point is that the the people making the rules and telling everybody to get vaccinated are not vaccinated themselves. Maybe they should "follow the science".

I agree. It is notable that they point out they are not requiring their staff share vaccination status (I haven't sent my card into my work yet either), and could include people who are in no rush as they have been previously infected. Regardless of the why, it would behoove them to set a good example.

 

[Malestrom Troll]

Note that the broader US population is sitting at about 46% vaccinated with the first dose and only 36% with both doses. If Fauci thinks that 60% of NIH is fully vaccinated, that's quite a delta.

I don't have the numbers, but I would imagine that first responders and healthcare workers would be 50%+ fully vaccinated. Some hospitals are forcing employees to be vaccinated to stay employed. I would think NIH employees would be well above the national average.

 

[Intr3pid]

Peak vaccination is the next area of concern. The 'herd immunity' target of vaccinating 70% of the population looks like a tough nut to crack. At least by this summer.

Here are some charts based on the data from:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=OWID_WRL
United States

The US has opened up vaccine eligibility to pretty much everyone 16+, so most adults who want one already have at least one shot in their arms. Yet, the chart is leveling off at a level that is a far cry from herd immunity:

View attachment 575344


Less than 10% of the population has had the infection, so that still doesn't get us to the 70% number. Plus, a large proportion of them are already included in the vaccination counts.

The newly expanded 12-15 demographic is going to provide some support in the short-term. (I will keep an eye on the data.) On a daily basis, peak vaccination was on April 3, 2021, when 2.4 million newly vaccinated joined the ranks. That number is now down to 630,000 yesterday.

UK

In the UK, they haven't yet filtered through all age groups (still working on the 30+ demographic). There was a steep dropoff after the negative AstraZeneca news broke out., but we are seeing some uptake as they open up more age groups. We will have a better idea once the 16+ or 12+ groups start getting their shots.

View attachment 575345


Canada

Understandably, Canadians are yet to reach peak vaccination. The pace seems to be picking up actually. It might have to do with the strategy to getting more folks vaccinated than fewer more quickly. There is also an incentive to get one shot before the summer - and to exit those lockdowns.

View attachment 575348

It looks like you tend to level off as you approach the 50% mark, so it will be interesting to see if the Canadians follow the Americans and the Brits into the final stretch.

Of course, not everyone has to be vaccinated. What's a good level to leave it at? Looks like quantity may not be as important as quality:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robert...ated-countries-heres-why-the-us-should-worry/

The other outcome of the vaccinations peaking too early is that we won't see more than 50%/55% of the population getting fully vaccinated by summer or even early fall. This might have a major bearing on how the cruise ships restart. The likes of RCL and Carnival will have to carve some ships out for a PCR-tests-only setup. NCL too a some point.

 

[Mousequake]

It’s worth pointing out that all NIH employees are not scientists or medical people. That number likely includes a huge number of administrative staff, tech support, maintenance, etc. his statement doesn’t mean that only 60% of those directly involved in medicine and research are vaccinated.

I’d expect similar numbers at most medical institutions.

 

[wideeyedwonder]

Note that the broader US population is sitting at about 46% vaccinated with the first dose and only 36% with both doses. If Fauci thinks that 60% of NIH is fully vaccinated, that's quite a delta.

Those percentages you quoted are of the *total* US population, including babies and small children, and teens under 18 that haven’t been permitted to get vaccinated until just recently (last week or so?)

However, For adults (Americans age 18 and over), the percentage fully vaccinated are now at 47%, and 60% are either fully or partial vaccinated.

 

[mevelandry]

If the vulnerable people have been vaccinated and the vaccines work then it shouldn’t matter what anyone else does. I think most of you have very little faith in the vaccines.

It shouldn't matter... But it does:

When too many people end up hospitalized, it creates stress on the health care system. In my province, having 500-1000 people hospitalized for COVID takes enough beds and the result is that important surgeries have to be postponed. People can die from collateral damages of COVID. In regions with very little hospital beds, the impact of an outbreak in a small town can be dramatic. A high number of unvaccinated people could have a huge impact on the health care system.