The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[SailorsWhyf]

I hope not! I really hope I can at least start ordering a rum and Coke on my flights again this summer.

Fear not! I flew Delta this week and had a rum and diet

 

[AquaDame]

I’m asthmatic as well and have been back in the gym for a while. No way can I wear a mask and exercise. I’m pretty sure I would die or be hospitalized. So happy I have the J&J vaccine and can’t wait for the mask mandate to be dropped completely. It’s really hard to breathe.

Same; I end up breathing through my mouth a lot more when I'm masked up so I've been especially happy to have our home gym setup! The KN95 puts too much pressure on the bridge of my nose and I already have some issues that block my airway. This whole mess has actually convinced me to get my deviated septum straightened and she said they'd also probably reduce my turbinate while they're in there. Hopefully I end up breathing better than ever.

I bought some masks while we were in Japan last time that have some gel added that is supposed to help with the dry air on planes. In the end I was too self conscious to use them when they weren't as prevalent, but will on our flight later this year. If they really do help then I'm sold... I wouldn't expect airlines in the US to keep mandatory masks forever either. Surely it will be an optional thing unless or until things get worse. Hopefully once vaccines are fully approved (I'm not hearing evidence to suggest they won't be; Pfizer and Moderna have what they need to apply now) more people will be comfortable with them.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Well..... the CDC has said that cruising could return as early as mid-summeer IF 98% of crew and 95% of passengers are vaccinated.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-cdc-committed-u-cruise-035419413.html

 

[billyinlasvegas]

Anyone else waiting on FDA approval before getting a vaccine? Currently, they are only approved for emergency use.

This is a bit of misinformation that is flying around the internet and some dubious news sources. The vaccine is approved by the FDA. yes for emergency use, but this does not imply that it is not safe or that this is some half assed approval.

As of today the US has administered more than 234 million doses and it's not only safe but it's considerably safer than not being vaccinated.

We're all unbelievably lucky to have such easy access to the vaccine here in the US.

 

[AquaDame]

This is a bit of misinformation that is flying around the internet and some dubious news sources. The vaccine is approved by the FDA. yes for emergency use, but this does not imply that it is not safe or that this is some half assed approval.

As of today the US has administered more than 234 million doses and it's not only safe but it's considerably safer than not being vaccinated.

We're all unbelievably lucky to have such easy access to the vaccine here in the US.

And we'll be even better once they apply for full approval already. Last I heard they had everything they needed, so I wonder what the hold up is?

 

[Intr3pid]

And we'll be even better once they apply for full approval already. Last I heard they had everything they needed, so I wonder what the hold up is?

FDA needs more data - not more people but more data over time. For example, the correct dosing regimen, length of immunity, efficacy against emerging variants, etc. are still being studied.

A minimum of six months of in-use data is sometimes needed, but it will likely take longer with the COVID vaccines. We have had new technology, staggered trials, changing virus, etc. The drug companies aren't in any hurry either since the EUA more or less works like an approval as long as there is a public health emergency.

Here is an example of the ongoing findings:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/29/mod...table-at-refrigerated-temps-for-3-months.html

 

[BadPinkTink]

European Parliament votes to introduce EU Covid-19 passports

The European Parliament has approved its priorities for introducing Covid-19 passports for the EU, also known as Digital Green Certificates, in time for the summer.

The idea behind the Covid passport system is to allow anyone who is fully vaccinated, or who has a negative Covid-19 test, or who has recovered from Covid-19, to travel within the EU by presenting this paper or digital certificate.

The result of the vote, cast yesterday and announced this morning, was 540 votes in favour, 119 against and 31 abstentions.

As part of the vote, the European Parliament aims as part of its priorities to scrap the name ‘Digital Green Certificates’, and instead call them the ‘EU Covid-19 certificate’.

MEPs also agreed that the system should be in place for no longer than 12 months.

MEPs also stress that, in order to avoid discrimination against those not vaccinated and for economic reasons, EU countries should “ensure universal, accessible, timely and free of charge testing”.

The next stage will involve negotiations between the European Parliament, based on these prioirities; and the European Council, or the leaders of the 27 EU member states, about how to implement the certificates.

Once officially introduced, Ireland and other EU member states will be obliged to give one of these EU Covid-19 certificates to anyone eligible for one who requests it.

In a plenary hearing yesterday where the issue was debated, some MEPs expressed concerns about EU countries where Covid-19 tests are “prohibitively expensive”, particularly for cross-border workers and students; that the name ‘Digital Green Certificates’ was confusing; that there wasn’t enough scientific evidence for how long immunity after contracting Covid-19 or after being fully vaccinated would last.

“Haste is not a wise counsel,” Italian MEP Piernicola Pedicini said, raising concerns about how the committee stage for the certificate legislation was skipped.

“Is the effect the same for all vaccines? How long are we protected for? We don’t know if member states are going to discriminate through access to services.”

MEPs arguing in favour of the Covid certificates said that they would allow a return to some level of normality; that the system will ensure there aren’t several different systems for travel across the EU; and that it would allow the European economy – tourism in particular – to rebound.

Bulgarian MEP Petar Vitanov said that the proposal should have been introduced last year, when there was a “patchwork” arrangement for travel across the EU.

In the result announced today, MEPs said that EU member states must accept vaccination certificates issued in other member states for persons inoculated with a vaccine authorised for use in the EU by the European Medicines Agency – currently Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, AstraZeneca and Janssen.

It will be up to the EU member states to decide whether they also accept vaccination certificates issued in other member states for vaccines listed by the World Health Organisation (WHO) for emergency use.

 

[mevelandry]

Glad to report that the province of Quebec (Canada) have just announced that going into mid-May, everyone *18+ will be able to take an appointment to receive their first shot of vaccine.

In a few weeks from now, depending on how things go and how many doses we receive, the 16 weeks delay between the two shots could be reevaluated.

They have also confirmed that the possibility of providing an app that could show proof of vaccination (for travel) was very much on the table and the representative of Public Health said they would be looking into it as well.

Now, that doesn't mean that the whole cruise season on the East Coast is saved but who knows, there might be some hope for folliage season if the Government of Canada ever change their mind on the subject.

*EDITED: Thought I heard 16+ but they announced 18+.

 

[tink2424]

This is a bit of misinformation that is flying around the internet and some dubious news sources. The vaccine is approved by the FDA. yes for emergency use, but this does not imply that it is not safe or that this is some half assed approval.

As of today the US has administered more than 234 million doses and it's not only safe but it's considerably safer than not being vaccinated.

We're all unbelievably lucky to have such easy access to the vaccine here in the US.

This is not misinformation it is the truth. EUA is NOT the same as full FDA approval and it cannot be rushed as there are certain requirements that must be met to be eligible for FDA approval. These vaccines have NOT been in large groups of people for even 1 year yet. There is a lot that we don't know about the long term potential of the vaccines.

There is good reason for people to be vaccine hesitant about these specific vaccines.

 

[tink2424]

European Parliament votes to introduce EU Covid-19 passports

The European Parliament has approved its priorities for introducing Covid-19 passports for the EU, also known as Digital Green Certificates, in time for the summer.

The idea behind the Covid passport system is to allow anyone who is fully vaccinated, or who has a negative Covid-19 test, or who has recovered from Covid-19, to travel within the EU by presenting this paper or digital certificate.

The result of the vote, cast yesterday and announced this morning, was 540 votes in favour, 119 against and 31 abstentions.

As part of the vote, the European Parliament aims as part of its priorities to scrap the name ‘Digital Green Certificates’, and instead call them the ‘EU Covid-19 certificate’.

MEPs also agreed that the system should be in place for no longer than 12 months.

MEPs also stress that, in order to avoid discrimination against those not vaccinated and for economic reasons, EU countries should “ensure universal, accessible, timely and free of charge testing”.

The next stage will involve negotiations between the European Parliament, based on these prioirities; and the European Council, or the leaders of the 27 EU member states, about how to implement the certificates.

Once officially introduced, Ireland and other EU member states will be obliged to give one of these EU Covid-19 certificates to anyone eligible for one who requests it.

In a plenary hearing yesterday where the issue was debated, some MEPs expressed concerns about EU countries where Covid-19 tests are “prohibitively expensive”, particularly for cross-border workers and students; that the name ‘Digital Green Certificates’ was confusing; that there wasn’t enough scientific evidence for how long immunity after contracting Covid-19 or after being fully vaccinated would last.

“Haste is not a wise counsel,” Italian MEP Piernicola Pedicini said, raising concerns about how the committee stage for the certificate legislation was skipped.

“Is the effect the same for all vaccines? How long are we protected for? We don’t know if member states are going to discriminate through access to services.”

MEPs arguing in favour of the Covid certificates said that they would allow a return to some level of normality; that the system will ensure there aren’t several different systems for travel across the EU; and that it would allow the European economy – tourism in particular – to rebound.

Bulgarian MEP Petar Vitanov said that the proposal should have been introduced last year, when there was a “patchwork” arrangement for travel across the EU.

In the result announced today, MEPs said that EU member states must accept vaccination certificates issued in other member states for persons inoculated with a vaccine authorised for use in the EU by the European Medicines Agency – currently Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, AstraZeneca and Janssen.

It will be up to the EU member states to decide whether they also accept vaccination certificates issued in other member states for vaccines listed by the World Health Organisation (WHO) for emergency use.

The only good part about these certificates is that they don't require vaccination but allow also for the option to provide a negative test. It is way more fair that way...

 

[PrincessShmoo]

The only good part about these certificates is that they don't require vaccination but allow also for the option to provide a negative test. It is way more fair that way...

But, of course, a negative test is only good the day the test was made. Having that information on your certificate probably won't be of any value 2 weeks later.

 

[skierrob]

This is not misinformation it is the truth. EUA is NOT the same as full FDA approval and it cannot be rushed as there are certain requirements that must be met to be eligible for FDA approval. These vaccines have NOT been in large groups of people for even 1 year yet. There is a lot that we don't know about the long term potential of the vaccines.

There is good reason for people to be vaccine hesitant about these specific vaccines.

The only concern is how long the vaccine remains EFFECTIVE -- is it 6 months, two years, lifetime? That is why it isn't eligible yet. The science that it prevents COVID and does not cause major side effects is PROVEN. GET VACCINATED!

 

[Intr3pid]

Glad to report that the province of Quebec (Canada) have just announced that going into mid-May, everyone *18+ will be able to take an appointment to receive their first shot of vaccine.

In a few weeks from now, depending on how things go and how many doses we receive, the 16 weeks delay between the two shots could be reevaluated.

They have also confirmed that the possibility of providing an app that could show proof of vaccination (for travel) was very much on the table and the representative of Public Health said they would be looking into it as well.

Now, that doesn't mean that the whole cruise season on the East Coast is saved but who knows, there might be some hope for folliage season if the Government of Canada ever change their mind on the subject.

*EDITED: Thought I heard 16+ but they announced 18+.

It looks like the states of Florida etc with their general drivel against vaccine requirements will soon be the odd ones out. Europe and Canada will be off limits as well as most cruising. Those state residents will effectively be 'locked down' to limited domestic travel or a handful of cruises.

 

[jerry557]

It looks like the states of Florida etc with their general drivel against vaccine requirements will soon be the odd ones out. Europe and Canada will be off limits as well as most cruising. Those state residents will effectively be 'locked down' to limited domestic travel or a handful of cruises.

It's not just Florida. The US government is not doing it either. They've already said there is no single federal credential that people are going to carry or be given. So not even the feds are going to do what Canada and the EU are doing.
Also the EU vaccine certificate system is written to not exceed 12 months. So this stuff isn't being looked at as being permanent solutions, just a way to restart travel while people are still getting vaccinated. You can also still enter Europe by taking a negative test.

But the CDC is in no hurry to provide any guidance to the cruise lines. So it doesn't really matter what Florida does if the CDC is going to keep that no sail in effect until November.

 

[Intr3pid]

It's not just Florida. The US government is not doing it either. They've already said there is no single federal credential that people are going to carry or be given. So not even the feds are going to do what Canada and the EU are doing.
Also the EU vaccine certificate system is written to not exceed 12 months. So this stuff isn't being looked at as being permanent solutions, just a way to restart travel while people are still getting vaccinated. You can also still enter Europe by taking a negative test.

But the CDC is in no hurry to provide any guidance to the cruise lines. So it doesn't really matter what Florida does if the CDC is going to keep that no sail in effect until November.

The US government not doing it doesn't preclude the states from developing one of their own. Florida is prohibiting its state department from issuing any certification. If you receive your vaccine in Florida, it's between you and the business you are dealing with to come up with a way to accept your proof of vaccination. Maybe the CDC card handed out to you will work - or maybe once it's clear how easy it is to tamper it, a centrally verified system will be required - as it is now in many instances in Europe or states like NY.

The 12-month EU timeframe is arbitrary and can be extended like everything else. You can enter Europe a few days after your test result, and that's about it. Entry into the region has no bearing on whether a European business will provide you service. Even if you can use a test to access that service, you will have to keep getting tested along the way.

 

[jerry557]

The US government not doing it doesn't preclude the states from developing one of their own. Florida is prohibiting its state department from issuing any certification. If you receive your vaccine in Florida, it's between you and the business you are dealing with to come up with a way to accept your proof of vaccination. Maybe the CDC card handed out to you will work - or maybe once it's clear how easy it is to tamper it, a centrally verified system will be required - as it is now in many instances in Europe or states like NY.

Every state having a different way of doing it, or not doing it at all, is going to cause a massive mess. But the federal government is not going to do it. There is not going to be one national vaccine database where they hand out a single credential. Politically and logistically, the federal government wants absolutely nothing to do with that kind of mega-hot potato. Florida has declared fully that they aren't going to allow it. A number of other states are considering similar measures.

If Europe doesn't want our tourism...that's fine. Every country has a right to pass whatever laws and implement whatever systems they want. But they will come to understand very quickly that the more strict they are with this, the less money their economy rakes in. Eventually the political pressure will give way, especially when those countries reach 70-90% vaccination rates.

 

[Intr3pid]

Every state having a different way of doing it, or not doing it at all, is going to cause a massive mess. But the federal government is not going to do it. There is not going to be one national vaccine database where they hand out a single credential. Politically and logistically, the federal government wants absolutely nothing to do with that kind of mega-hot potato. Florida has declared fully that they aren't going to allow it. A number of other states are considering similar measures.

If Europe doesn't want our tourism...that's fine. Every country has a right to pass whatever laws and implement whatever systems they want. But they will come to understand very quickly that the more strict they are with this, the less money their economy rakes in. Eventually the political pressure will give way, especially when those countries reach 70-90% vaccination rates.

Every state has its own driver licensing system. Do you run into a 'mess' renting a car at London Heathrow with a NY or FL or CA driver license?

If the federal government isn't involved, the travel industry can very easily work with state or private credentials. Last year, some countries were denying entry to US travelers based on their state residence (before the virus spread everywhere).

Europe or any other region - including the US - wants safe tourism. They don't want reckless tourists who might bring a new virus strain with them. The loss of tourism dollars from this group is minuscule compared to the economic catastrophe they would have to endure if they were to shut down once again.

 

[sethschroeder]

But, of course, a negative test is only good the day the test was made. Having that information on your certificate probably won't be of any value 2 weeks later.

Except it does give the option even if its only good for 24 hours. In addition it gives those who have recovered from COVID19 another option as well.

For those who have recovered it gives you an option to wait on vaccination until more information between the various vaccine options are provided and possibly information on which ones will or will not require boosters (possibly even bypassing directly to the booster shot instead). On top of that it allows families with children to possibly bypass the vaccine for a much longer period of time during the still very early phases of these vaccines.

I would be possibly supportive of something similar in the US if its not strictly a vaccine passport but simply a COVID-19 negative medical "card" system.

 

[sethschroeder]

Europe or any other region - including the US - wants safe tourism. They don't want reckless tourists who might bring a new virus strain with them. The loss of tourism dollars from this group is minuscule compared to the economic catastrophe they would have to endure if they were to shut down once again.

Eh I think this is overstated come sometime in 2022. If there were a virus strain bypassing vaccination limitations wouldn't help much unless you are shutting down boarders to whole countries/regions.

Vaccination/recovered individuals at a certain point should choke out much of the spread of the virus. At that point its really going to be about a virus mutation bypassing vaccination/previous infection at which point the checks of someone having a vaccine isn't going to matter.

If we are then saying your "passport" needs to contain the new vaccination that is going to cause a huge issue to travel since there will be no way to predict when new booster shots would be needed and how quickly you could get a shot prior to travel.

Think about it this way:
Would you book a July 2022 trip if you were just vaccinated but the requirement was that France was going to require you to have whatever the latest cutting edge vaccine was for COVID19. Seems like its a large risk for either the traveler or travel company to take on for last second new vaccine booster shots that you might be unable to get.

 

[tink2424]

But, of course, a negative test is only good the day the test was made. Having that information on your certificate probably won't be of any value 2 weeks later.

Yes, and? So you test again before you come home. Not seeing your point here...