The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[jane01jp]

Wow that is huge.

Agree. It may be hard to convince other people to take it if leading medical employers stand down.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Agree. It may be hard to convince other people to take it if leading medical employers stand down.

They are not “standing down”. They are highly encouraging it. What they are not doing is threatening to fire people for not getting it, which is what would happen with the flu shot.

 

[princessmommyx3]

They are not “standing down”. They are highly encouraging it. What they are not doing is threatening to fire people for not getting it, which is what would happen with the flu shot.

I fully agree. My husband is a healthcare executive and he and all of his colleagues are 100% confident in its safety and efficacy, and fully believe that it will save countless lives. But, they know the negative ramifications of forcing people to get it and don’t want to go there. Plus, they are being respectful of those who believe differently, for whatever reason. Not forcing it on people (i.e. making it a condition of employment) absolutely does not mean they don’t think it is safe and effective.

 

[jane01jp]

They are not “standing down”. They are highly encouraging it. What they are not doing is threatening to fire people for not getting it, which is what would happen with the flu shot.

Got it. They are not requiring it as a condition of employment.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I fully agree. My husband is a healthcare executive and he and all of his colleagues are 100% confident in its safety and efficacy, and fully believe that it will save countless lives. But, they know the negative ramifications of forcing people to get it and don’t want to go there. Plus, they are being respectful of those who believe differently, for whatever reason. Not forcing it on people (i.e. making it a condition of employment) absolutely does not mean they don’t think it is safe and effective.

Exactly. Well said.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

On an EUA it is actually not permitted to require it.

 

[princessmommyx3]

On an EUA it is actually not permitted to require it.

True, but even if they could, they wouldn’t. Of course I am only speaking for the system my husband works for.

 

[Mousequake]

I fully agree. My husband is a healthcare executive and he and all of his colleagues are 100% confident in its safety and efficacy, and fully believe that it will save countless lives. But, they know the negative ramifications of forcing people to get it and don’t want to go there. Plus, they are being respectful of those who believe differently, for whatever reason. Not forcing it on people (i.e. making it a condition of employment) absolutely does not mean they don’t think it is safe and effective.

Very well said. My wife is in charge of infection control at a major hospital system just like the UPMC physician mentioned above (in fact, she used to work at UPMC with him) and this echoes her feelings perfectly. She stands behind the vaccine 100% but no way will she (or can she, as others have noted) make it a requirement for employment right now.

 

[jane01jp]

Very well said. My wife is in charge of infection control at a major hospital system just like the UPMC physician mentioned above (in fact, she used to work at UPMC with him) and this echoes her feelings perfectly. She stands behind the vaccine 100% but no way will she (or can she, as others have noted) make it a requirement for employment right now.

If even medical groups in the US can't/won't make it a requirement for employment right now, it's hard to imagine the US travel industry making it a requirement to travel right now - particularly since it hasn't been cleared by the FDA for children.

 

[AquaDame]

If even medical groups in the US can't/won't make it a requirement for employment right now, it's hard to imagine the US travel industry making it a requirement to travel right now - particularly since it hasn't been cleared by the FDA for children.

Rules for minors often differ from adults already... they could easily say adults need it but minors do not (and change that once it is approved for them).

 

[jane01jp]

Rules for minors often differ from adults already... they could easily say adults need it but minors do not (and change that once it is approved for them).

Yeah. That's true.

There are about 60 million American kids 14 and under. That leaves about 270 million 15 and older. The goal is to get 100 million vaccinated by March 31, which is between 35 and 40 percent of those over 14. It sounds like the Operation Warp Speed group is concerned about peoples' willingness to take the vaccine at this point. I saw this quote today:

For the United States to get "herd immunity," which would halt transmission of the deadly virus, the country would need to have immunized about 75% or 80% of the population, he said, adding that he hoped to reach that point between May and June.​

​

"It is however critical that most of the American people decide and accept to take the vaccine," Slaoui said. "We are very concerned by the hesitancy that we see."​

​

He said he hoped people will keep an open mind, "listen to the data and openly agree that this is a very effective and safe vaccine and therefore take it."​

 

[AquaDame]

Well and at this point with the UK, Canada, the US, and possibly others all beginning to inoculate more people I think the initial fears will calm down. Unless of course things do not continue to go smoothly..! I still think that the loudest people are the ones who do not want the vaccine - the people who do or are ambivalent aren't running around voicing that as much.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Other countries have already been willing to require vaccination for other diseases, even if the US does not. No country is under any requirement to let an unvaccinated American in.

 

[jane01jp]

Well and at this point with the UK, Canada, the US, and possibly others all beginning to inoculate more people I think the initial fears will calm down. Unless of course things do not continue to go smoothly..! I still think that the loudest people are the ones who do not want the vaccine - the people who do or are ambivalent aren't running around voicing that as much.

AquaDame, no question that they loudest people are the ones who don't want the vaccine.

 

[jane01jp]

Other countries have already been willing to require vaccination for other diseases, even if the US does not. No country is under any requirement to let an unvaccinated American in.

True Aurora! The problem with a policy like that is the minority veto. Let's say there is a group of 4 adults who are traveling together, and 3 of them want the vaccine and 1 does not. That group wouldn't be able to travel as a group to any country that requires the vaccine to enter. That group would likely choose another vacation destination.

So, even a small percentage of Americans refusing to take the vaccine could cause large numbers to avoid traveling to any countries that were to require them. And, American tourists are vital to the economies of many international tourist destinations.

 

[DCLDVC1]

Yeah. That's true.

There are about 60 million American kids 14 and under. That leaves about 270 million 15 and older. The goal is to get 100 million vaccinated by March 31, which is between 35 and 40 percent of those over 14. It sounds like the Operation Warp Speed group is concerned about peoples' willingness to take the vaccine at this point. I saw this quote today:

For the United States to get "herd immunity," which would halt transmission of the deadly virus, the country would need to have immunized about 75% or 80% of the population, he said, adding that he hoped to reach that point between May and June.​

​

"It is however critical that most of the American people decide and accept to take the vaccine," Slaoui said. "We are very concerned by the hesitancy that we see."​

​

He said he hoped people will keep an open mind, "listen to the data and openly agree that this is a very effective and safe vaccine and therefore take it."​

That's not surprising considering how many people don't even want to do something as simple as wear a mask when out in public.

 

[jane01jp]

Vaccinating 100 million people by the end of March would mean roughly 1 million per day, 7 days a week. That's a lot, even if people are champing at the bit to get them.

When people find out that they must continue to wear masks after the shots, that will put a big damper on enthusiasm going forward.

 

[jane01jp]

Effective today, the US has moved from 11th highest deaths per capita, to 12th. Within the US, the upper midwest is where things still look the worst (for example, Illinois had 1,223 deaths over the last week, and Pennsylvania had 1,230, putting both states at more than 1.8 times the national average death rate per capita). It looks like we need to focus our efforts in those kinds of hot spots.

Meanwhile, South Carolina, Georgia, North Carolina, and Florida continue to have about half the average national death rate per capita over the last week. North Carolina has a statewide mask mandate, while none of the others do.

 

[sethschroeder]

Although two doses are needed to offer full protection, the first jab prevented 89% of the most severe cases.

There is A TON of caveat to that though. It prevented 89% of the most severe cases it doesn't mean you are full protected and will prevent additional spread. The prevention of spread is the important part during the vaccine rollout over the next 12-18 months until most people either have already had COVID19 or had the vaccine to reduce their risk of severe issues.

So, was masking widespread in the early days of the polio vaccine? Any mandates? And, if wearing masks could help during bad flu seasons, would masks have been required anyway (that is, even if COVID had never existed)? We've never worn masks for bad flu seasons before.

I know others responded but just want to outline a "bad flu season" is typically a predefined time period, you typically have a vaccine for protection against the flu strain, death rates are likely to be less, and you won't likely see hospitals over run with specific specialty medical equipment required for care.

Someone can feel free to clarify or correct if I said something off though.

Vaccinating 100 million people by the end of March would mean roughly 1 million per day, 7 days a week. That's a lot, even if people are champing at the bit to get them.

When people find out that they must continue to wear masks after the shots, that will put a big damper on enthusiasm going forward.

Lets not forget each person needs 2 shots. That means 1.85m people/day over 7 days a week. Its why I keep pointing to 2022 if you want a chance at "normal" again.

Also to your point wearing masks even if you get the shots is a good one as well. It is going to be interesting how different businesses take on removing restrictions they have proactively put in place (WDW and DCL as an example). I don't see a business being able to do a no mask only if you are vaccinated approach it would be too much hassle.

 

[jane01jp]

There is A TON of caveat to that though. It prevented 89% of the most severe cases it doesn't mean you are full protected and will prevent additional spread. The prevention of spread is the important part during the vaccine rollout over the next 12-18 months until most people either have already had COVID19 or had the vaccine to reduce their risk of severe issues.



I know others responded but just want to outline a "bad flu season" is typically a predefined time period, you typically have a vaccine for protection against the flu strain, death rates are likely to be less, and you won't likely see hospitals over run with specific specialty medical equipment required for care.

Someone can feel free to clarify or correct if I said something off though.



Lets not forget each person needs 2 shots. That means 1.85m people/day over 7 days a week. Its why I keep pointing to 2022 if you want a chance at "normal" again.

Also to your point wearing masks even if you get the shots is a good one as well. It is going to be interesting how different businesses take on removing restrictions they have proactively put in place (WDW and DCL as an example). I don't see a business being able to do a no mask only if you are vaccinated approach it would be too much hassle.

Excellent clarification on the two doses meaning 1.85 million people per day! Your conclusion about 2022 is probably also correct for many people, given their level of fear over this disease. However, I personally doubt that compliance with the various mandates will last very well through 2021.