The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[mevelandry]

Your not citing any studies. Your citing opinion articles. Show me the DATA.

The articles are citing the studies.

I don't know what to reply other than: I was trying to be nice... but I'm not your assistant.

The info on the studies (where they came from, etc.) are cited in the articles. Make your own research.

 

[Sykes]

Not just for vaccinated individuals. Vaccinated individuals would not need to test or quarantine. Everything I have read is that there will be a testing option for those who have not been vaccinated and of course also exemptions for those who have recently recovered from COVID.

Here's the current version of the rule being considered in the EU ... it's possible it'll change by the time it is adopted (I expect that there will be some relatively minor changes based on today's news): https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/s...al_council_recommendation_com-2021-232_en.pdf

That version lifts the ban on nonessential travel only for vaccinated individuals with no allowance for testing or quarantine as an alternative. The EU will also allow admittance of unvaccinated individuals from countries that have low risk of COVID infection (like Australia ... the US may eventually get there but our case rate is about 2x what is allowed). It is possible for an unvaccinated individual to enter with testing or quarantine if they are considered to be traveling for an essential reason, but not for tourism.

Individual countries like Greece have adopted rules that are less strict than the EU recommendation (and they still have that option), but unless changed the EU recommendation wouldn't allow unvaccinated individuals from the US (except children ineligible for the vaccine who are accompanying vaccinated adults) to enter for tourism.

 

[AquaDame]

[...]That version lifts the ban on nonessential travel only for vaccinated individuals [...]

This would be a worry off my shoulders... my brother lives in the EU and it was unsettling knowing I could not quickly go over should something happen. The quarantine would have made it very difficult.

 

[tink2424]

Do you know what the time frame is for recently in these cases or what documentation they will be looking for? I have a couple of friends who had Covid, but not the vaccine. I think they are waiting a little bit longer to get vaccinated.

From what I have read it looks like within the last 6 months.

" A common misconception in the U.S. is that countries with universal health care have much longer wait times. However, data from nations with universal coverage, and historical data from coverage expansion in the United States, show that patients in other nations have similar or shorter wait times. "

Health care wait time by country

Even within that they show that there are lots of countries with very exaggerated wait times of years to get certain surgeries. Sure there are some countries that do better but overall it is a problem with socialized medicine. There are many other problems as well but you can do a google search for them as I'm sure there are a ton of articles on that.

The articles are citing the studies.

I don't know what to reply other than: I was trying to be nice... but I'm not your assistant.

The info on the studies (where they came from, etc.) are cited in the articles. Make your own research.

I have done my own research and I posted it here as well. You did not post anything that shows evidence of a real world study that looks at natural immunity and vaccinated immunity in the population. The study from Israel is the only one I know of and while it does have it's limitations we can also see by the low number of reinfections in the US alone that those that have natural immunity have good robust immunity. What you posted did not have anything to do with that but had to do with antibody responses which are not the only part of our immune system and are certainly not the long term immune response. So maybe go back and look at what I cited that the media isn't telling the full story.

Here's the current version of the rule being considered in the EU ... it's possible it'll change by the time it is adopted (I expect that there will be some relatively minor changes based on today's news): https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/s...al_council_recommendation_com-2021-232_en.pdf

That version lifts the ban on nonessential travel only for vaccinated individuals with no allowance for testing or quarantine as an alternative. The EU will also allow admittance of unvaccinated individuals from countries that have low risk of COVID infection (like Australia ... the US may eventually get there but our case rate is about 2x what is allowed). It is possible for an unvaccinated individual to enter with testing or quarantine if they are considered to be traveling for an essential reason, but not for tourism.

Individual countries like Greece have adopted rules that are less strict than the EU recommendation (and they still have that option), but unless changed the EU recommendation wouldn't allow unvaccinated individuals from the US (except children ineligible for the vaccine who are accompanying vaccinated adults) to enter for tourism.

Fair enough, until we have the final rule from the EU we won't know for sure. Most of the articles I have read always are allowing for a testing option. Also, with how fast our numbers are dropping in the US I fully expect that we won't be on a high risk country list for long and all of this will be a moot point.

 

[orum]

Here's the current version of the rule being considered in the EU ... it's possible it'll change by the time it is adopted (I expect that there will be some relatively minor changes based on today's news): https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/s...al_council_recommendation_com-2021-232_en.pdf

That version lifts the ban on nonessential travel only for vaccinated individuals with no allowance for testing or quarantine as an alternative. The EU will also allow admittance of unvaccinated individuals from countries that have low risk of COVID infection (like Australia ... the US may eventually get there but our case rate is about 2x what is allowed). It is possible for an unvaccinated individual to enter with testing or quarantine if they are considered to be traveling for an essential reason, but not for tourism.

Individual countries like Greece have adopted rules that are less strict than the EU recommendation (and they still have that option), but unless changed the EU recommendation wouldn't allow unvaccinated individuals from the US (except children ineligible for the vaccine who are accompanying vaccinated adults) to enter for tourism.

I like this. Essential travel has allowances for testing/previous recovery, but to vacation you need to be vaccinated.

 

[MrFish]

I like this. Essential travel has allowances for testing/previous recovery, but to vacation you need to be vaccinated.

I don't like it all. Discrimination against those with natural immunity, effectively forcing people to take a vaccine that they do not need. I hope they scrap all this covid passport nonsense before it comes into play.

 

[Mousequake]

I posted a pic of my daughter getting vaccinated last week, and the hospital where my wife practices wanted to use it in the media to feature kids of medical providers getting vaccinated (all done with her permission, of course) They asked her for a quote about why she wanted to get vaccinated; we were expecting a response like "because it helps me stay safer at school" or "because now I'm less likely to get sick" or "now I can visit my grandfather in the nursing home." Instead, she hits us with "because I wanted to do my part to end the pandemic."

See, even a kid understands herd immunity and its importance. I don't know why some adults can't wrap their heads around it.

 

[MrFish]

I posted a pic of my daughter getting vaccinated last week, and the hospital where my wife practices wanted to use it in the media to feature kids of medical providers getting vaccinated (all done with her permission, of course) They asked her for a quote about why she wanted to get vaccinated; we were expecting a response like "because it helps me stay safer at school" or "because now I'm less likely to get sick" or "now I can visit my grandfather in the nursing home." Instead, she hits us with "because I wanted to do my part to end the pandemic."

See, even a kid understands herd immunity and its importance. I don't know why some adults can't wrap their heads around it.

Some of us cant wrap our heads around vaccinating young children, our own precious flesh and blood, with a vaccine that has not been time-tested and which is more of a risk to children than the actual disease.

 

[belle032]

I like this. Essential travel has allowances for testing/previous recovery, but to vacation you need to be vaccinated.

I don't mind it in the slightest either. Countries have the right to set the parameters of what they will permit in terms of allowing people to cross their borders. If you choose not to comply, they can choose to not allow entry. No one is forcing the vaccine on anyone else in this situation. You are still well within your right to not receive it.

 

[DCLMP]

I don't mind it in the slightest either. Countries have the right to set the parameters of what they will permit in terms of allowing people to cross their borders. If you choose not to comply, they can choose to not allow entry. No one is forcing the vaccine on anyone else in this situation. You are still well within your right to not receive it.

They are essentially forcing you if you want to live a normal life.

 

[Mousequake]

Some of us cant wrap our heads around vaccinating young children, our own precious flesh and blood, with a vaccine that has not been time-tested and which is more of a risk to children than the actual disease.

False premise. There is no evidence that the vaccine is more of a risk than the actual disease.

 

[DCLMP]

Some of us cant wrap our heads around vaccinating young children, our own precious flesh and blood, with a vaccine that has not been time-tested and which is more of a risk to children than the actual disease.

I have one young adult and one teen. They were asymptomatic when they tested positive for covid. There is absolutely no reason they should have to get an experimental vaccine that could have long-lasting repercussions. At the same time have zero risk of dying from Covid. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around it too. but there's a percentage of parents that have no qualms about it all. It's amazing how many times the FDA and big pharma have screwed up in the past yet, some people remain are so trusting.

 

[tink2424]

I don't like it all. Discrimination against those with natural immunity, effectively forcing people to take a vaccine that they do not need. I hope they scrap all this covid passport nonsense before it comes into play.

I don't mind it in the slightest either. Countries have the right to set the parameters of what they will permit in terms of allowing people to cross their borders. If you choose not to comply, they can choose to not allow entry. No one is forcing the vaccine on anyone else in this situation. You are still well within your right to not receive it.

Well we don't know for sure what the official rule will be but Europe is not interested in being punitive to anyone and has explicitly stated that for their own citizens they will not be forced to not live a normal life if they don't get vaccinated. I expect that they will not force the issue of vaccinated versus unvaccinated for visitors from the US (I fully admit I could be wrong) as we bring a lot of tourist dollars to Europe and they don't want to miss out on our money.

Again, since our numbers are dropping like a rock I expect that very shortly we will be under whatever limit they set and then no passport or proof of vaccination will be needed for anything. But time will tell. In a way the Europeans are about giving more rights to their citizens then the US government.

 

[DCLMP]

False premise. There is no evidence that the vaccine is more of a risk than the actual disease.

We do know children have very little risk from Covid. The vaccine is still a big unknown.

 

[tink2424]

False premise. There is no evidence that the vaccine is more of a risk than the actual disease.

You also don't have any data to say it isn't more of a risk. The low numbers of people in the studies compared to how many will get the vaccines now will definitely show large numbers of AEs as with all vaccines and just like for adults. And we know that the severe outcomes for children are much lower than adults.

Give it time for the AEs to pile up in VAERS. Then the data will be clear.

 

[belle032]

They are essentially forcing you if you want to live a normal life.

Normal is subjective I suppose. And I don't know if you deleted the "you obviously don't have children" comment or a moderator did, but I don't see how that was relevant to my post.

 

[Trera]

False premise. There is no evidence that the vaccine is more of a risk than the actual disease.

Agreed. The Covid virus has killed more than any vaccine reaction has.

 

[Mousequake]

You also don't have any data to say it isn't more of a risk.

I never made the claim that it isn’t.

 

[Sykes]

Well we don't know for sure what the official rule will be but Europe
...
Again, since our numbers are dropping like a rock I expect that very shortly we will be under whatever limit they set and then no passport or proof of vaccination will be needed for anything.

They recommended adoption of the rule today and indicated that the EU has full agreement on it, so we pretty much know what the official rule will be unless a bunch of MEPs change their minds at the last minute. The only material change from the text I posted is that they changed the case threshold for a country to be considered low risk (75 cases per 100,000 over the last 14 days).

You are correct that eventually the US may qualify as low risk, but we still have quite a ways to go.

Edit: They just published the full text of the rule that should be the final version: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CONSIL:ST_8822_2021_REV_1&from=EN

 

[Trera]

I have one young adult and one teen. They were asymptomatic when they tested positive for covid. There is absolutely no reason they should have to get an experimental vaccine that could have long-lasting repercussions. At the same time have zero risk of dying from Covid. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around it too. but there's a percentage of parents that have no qualms about it all. It's amazing how many times the FDA and big pharma have screwed up in the past yet, some people remain are so trusting.

Nobody is saying your kids HAVE to get it. But you made the point on why businesses should be allowed to refuse service to those that have not been vaccinated..................Like your kids, the person/teenager could look perfectly normal with no symptoms and be spreading the virus unknowingly.