The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[DCLMP]

Normal is subjective I suppose. And I don't know if you deleted the "you obviously don't have children" comment or a moderator did, but I don't see how that was relevant to my post.

I deleted it because it wasn't relevant. What's the relevance of bringing up that I deleted it?

 

[DCLMP]

Nobody is saying your kids HAVE to get it. But you made the point on why businesses should be allowed to refuse service to those that have not been vaccinated..................Like your kids, the person/teenager could look perfectly normal with no symptoms and be spreading the virus unknowingly.

You could also be vaccinated and spread the disease.

 

[sethschroeder]

It IS a requirement at many colleges here in Maine, starting in the fall.

Where did I say it was not a requirement at some colleges?

If you read the original post:
"Want to go to school (grade school, high school, college), there are vaccine requirements."

That is categorically stating all not just some. I outlined certain and not all have some exception processes. If you want to go to grade, high school, and college you can easily do so without vaccination if that is prerogative for you or your family. (we are all fully vaccinated in our family but others have reasons rightly or wrongly as to why they don't get vaccinated for certain or all things)

Also some colleges while they have requirements for certain vaccinations for kids staying possibly in dorms they don't have the same requirement for kids not staying in dorms either at home, off campus, or in Greek. Other colleges will have requirements for signing waivers.

No clue about Maine or Georgia but some times exceptions to the policy are allowed just buried because while they offer it to people with very specific requirements to not be vaccinated their goal is not to have people just randomly choosing to not get a vaccination. A good example is social security numbers. Many hospitals will basically make it seem like its required to have a social security number applied to a child which is not the case either I don't think anywhere in the US.

 

[sethschroeder]

I think all of this is very straight forward though. In the US Disney isn't going to require vaccinations for cruising. Other countries may require it hence Disney has to apply that requirement but Disney themselves won't apply the requirement.

I still don't see any change or information that makes me think any differently. If anything the recent changes with WDW makes me think even more that Disney won't require vaccination.

 

[jrapps]

I see some of the inappropriate comments from the past few days have been cleaned up. Thank you AquaDame and other moderators!

 

[DCLMP]

I think all of this is very straight forward though. In the US Disney isn't going to require vaccinations for cruising. Other countries may require it hence Disney has to apply that requirement but Disney themselves won't apply the requirement.

I still don't see any change or information that makes me think any differently. If anything the recent changes with WDW makes me think even more that Disney won't require vaccination.

They would also have to challenge Florida law. I don't think any of the cruise lines will require them out of Florida. What happens in other countries who knows, but I don't believe all Europeans are onboard with vaccine passports. It's probably just as divisive over there as it is here.

 

[Dug720]

Other countries may require it hence Disney has to apply that requirement

Yep. Even if you "swear" that you won't get off the ship. Just like cruises going to Russia you HAVE to get a Russian visa even if you are not getting off the ship. (Some other countries as well.)

 

[Trera]

You could also be vaccinated and spread the disease.

Perhaps but shouldn't a business owner or country for that matter be able to decide on their own who they feel safe allowing into their business /Country??? You want the freedom to choose, why shouldnt they have the same freedom?

 

[sethschroeder]

Yep. Even if you "swear" that you won't get off the ship. Just like cruises going to Russia you HAVE to get a Russian visa even if you are not getting off the ship. (Some other countries as well.)

Which brings up the question on what the Caribbean will do?

They are almost stuck not requiring it since so much of their tourism comes likely from US citizens and many don't have an option for a verifiable vaccination ID.

 

[jrapps]

Which brings up the question on what the Caribbean will do?

They are almost stuck not requiring it since so much of their tourism comes likely from US citizens and many don't have an option for a verifiable vaccination ID.

Has any Caribbean country said for sure that they will or will not require vaccination yet? I know we assume some will. Last I was reading, while the cruises Royal and others are doing out of Nassau require vaccinations, I don't think you need one just to visit Nassau, do you?

 

[sethschroeder]

Perhaps but shouldn't a business owner or country for that matter be able to decide on their own who they feel safe allowing into their business /Country??? You want the freedom to choose, why shouldnt they have the same freedom?

Well in the US there is no requirement and will not be one for vaccination I highly doubt.

As for the business it comes down to what business can or can not restrict. Can business restrict based on health status? Or should they be required to make reasonable modifications/exceptions to policy? Now if they can restrict based on health status (vaccination) then where are those limits and why just those limits?

Also business vs individual rights are not exactly the same thing in the US (which I assume we are talking about). There is a reason business is held sometimes to a different standard than regular citizens.

Its a huge drawn out discussion that could be had on all of that.

 

[Sykes]

Perhaps but shouldn't a business owner or country for that matter be able to decide on their own who they feel safe allowing into their business /Country??? You want the freedom to choose, why shouldnt they have the same freedom?

And just to be clear, even despite the Florida law, any business owner in the US can do this. In Florida (assuming the law is constitutional) they might not be able to ask for proof of vaccination, but they could post a sign saying "You must be vaccinated to enter this business" and anyone who enters who isn't vaccinated would be trespassing (provided that they provide accommodation for those with disabilities or legitimately held religious beliefs so they are not accidentally discriminating based on religion or disability).

Whether or not they'd want to do it is another issue. It doesn't make a ton of sense for a store, or even a theme park. But it does make sense for a cruise ship where 5,000 people are in close quarters and a small number of infections would end the journey and likely force them to cancel the next several trips on that ship.

 

[sethschroeder]

Has any Caribbean country said for sure that they will or will not require vaccination yet? I know we assume some will. Last I was reading, while the cruises Royal and others are doing out of Nassau require vaccinations, I don't think you need one just to visit Nassau, do you?

They just waive testing requirements for people with vaccination as far as I know.

I assume none will honestly but wouldn't be shocked if some did require it.

 

[Trera]

Well in the US there is no requirement and will not be one for vaccination I highly doubt.

As for the business it comes down to what business can or can not restrict. Can business restrict based on health status? Or should they be required to make reasonable modifications/exceptions to policy? Now if they can restrict based on health status (vaccination) then where are those limits and why just those limits?

Also business vs individual rights are not exactly the same thing in the US (which I assume we are talking about). There is a reason business is held sometimes to a different standard than regular citizens.

Its a huge drawn out discussion that could be had on all of that.

My talking point was more philosophical in nature. Many people on this thread want the choice to be vaccinated but dont want businesses or countries to have the choice to keep them out for being unvaccinated.

Maybe I am the only one who thinks this is a bit hypocritical?

 

[sethschroeder]

My talking point was more philosophical in nature. Many people on this thread want the choice to be vaccinated but dont want businesses or countries to have the choice to keep them out for being unvaccinated.

Maybe I am the only one who thinks this is a bit hypocritical?

Maybe I missed who is saying other countries shouldn't have vaccination requirements. Most people are saying they dont want their country to mandate vaccination.

Also as for business it is not hypocritical because a business is different than a person. Should a business be allowed to restrict business from anyone for any reason they want? You can choose to not allow anyone in your house in the US that you want. However businesses are restricted from being able to restrict their business from anyone they want for any reason.

Business should be held to a different standard than individuals.

 

[mevelandry]

I posted a pic of my daughter getting vaccinated last week, and the hospital where my wife practices wanted to use it in the media to feature kids of medical providers getting vaccinated (all done with her permission, of course) They asked her for a quote about why she wanted to get vaccinated; we were expecting a response like "because it helps me stay safer at school" or "because now I'm less likely to get sick" or "now I can visit my grandfather in the nursing home." Instead, she hits us with "because I wanted to do my part to end the pandemic."

See, even a kid understands herd immunity and its importance. I don't know why some adults can't wrap their heads around it.

This brought tears to my eyes.

 

[Trera]

Maybe I missed who is saying other countries couldn't have vaccination requirements. Most people are saying they dont want their country to mandate vaccination.

Also as for business it is not hypocritical because a business is different than a person. Should a person be allowed to restrict business from anyone for any reason they want? You can choose to not allow anyone in your house in the US that you want. However businesses are restricted from being able to restrict their business from anyone they want for any reason.

Business should be held to a different standard than individuals.

You are still arguing the law.

You want choices and freedoms for you and your family but you dont want anyone that may restrict your daily life as a result of your choice..................to have their own choice.

Did I get that right?

 

[Sykes]

However businesses are restricted from being able to restrict their business from anyone they want for any reason.

They are only restricted from discrimination based on race, religion, national origin, age, sex (including sexual orientation and gender identity), pregnancy, familial status, disability, veteran status, or genetic information (in some cases). Some states also protect on other characteristics, but generally speaking the freedom of association allows a business broad discretion about with whom they do business. Vaccine status is not a protected characteristic. They are free to discriminate on that, or anything else that isn't protected. If I wanted to say that no one that was born on a Wednesday was welcome in my business, I would be free to do so.

 

[John VN]

Maybe I missed who is saying other countries shouldn't have vaccination requirements. Most people are saying they dont want their country to mandate vaccination.

Also as for business it is not hypocritical because a business is different than a person. Should a business be allowed to restrict business from anyone for any reason they want? You can choose to not allow anyone in your house in the US that you want. However businesses are restricted from being able to restrict their business from anyone they want for any reason.

Business should be held to a different standard than individuals.

r.e. - bold ????

 

[kathi]

This was such a great thread a month ago....it would be great if we could get back to "the old days". I found it very informative.

I think all of this is very straight forward though. In the US Disney isn't going to require vaccinations for cruising. Other countries may require it hence Disney has to apply that requirement but Disney themselves won't apply the requirement.

I don't see how you came to that conclusion. DCL has not made any statements about vaccination requirements. There are many scenarios that could include vaccinations for those who are eligible or those who are adults.