The Running Thread - 2021

Hi all, I haven’t been on in a while. It’s been an awful past 6 weeks. Thought my dad had a stroke but found out it was a brain tumor and also a lump in his lung. After brain surgery and such, it was too much for him and he passed away last Saturday. This all came out of nowhere and we’re still shocked. Though we miss him terribly, we are thankful it wasn’t longer for him.

DW and I are registered for W&D and I’m doing all three races. Needless to say, I’ve had no training or anything. I know I will finish. It’ll be ugly but it’ll be the most emotional ones I’ve done. I have no goals other than finish.

Congrats to everyone on their races! The race reports have been great and it’s given me something to look forward to reading. I was going to do Wineglass half but couldn’t. They were kind enough to change my registration to virtual so I will do that soon. My friend did it and said it’s great for a PR course or to try my first full. We’ll see.

I’m thankful for this supportive community and wanted to express how much you all help. It’s just not about running but life in general.
:grouphug:
 
Sorry for your loss, @Rogue224. I also lost my father to brain cancer (glioblastoma) a few years ago. From diagnosis to heaven was only a couple of weeks. While it was hard on the family, I am grateful that there was little suffering. I hope you and your family can find peace and comfort in the days to come. I hope to see you at W&D. We can run in honor of our dads.
 

Thanks everyone! Definitely some things to look into.

I bought a used commercial Precor from a local used gym equipment store. Absolutely zero bells and whistles which makes it cheaper to fix if something ever goes wrong. It inclines and declines and that’s it. There might be a couple programmed workouts, but I’ve never looked. I wanted a heavy duty motor that could tolerate a 3 hour run if needed over fancy touch screens. I use my iPad and earbuds for entertainment and a standing floor fan that I bought at Target. Some treadmills will require a dedicated circuit so make sure you consider that when shopping. Mine requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit so we had to have our electrician put one in for us.

Good to know about the circuit. My uncle is an electrician so I’ll make sure to ask him.

I got a Spirit in 2014 after my very old NordicTrac finally bit the dust. I like it a lot, but I don't recall the model and I'm guessing by now they've updated it anyway.

I did specifically NOT consider any treadmills with touchscreen controls after spending too much time in various fitness centers with touchscreens that were too touchy or didn't work once you get sweat all over them. Something for you to think about.

Another thing to think about: are you doing to use the treadmill screen? For TV/movies or their workouts? If so, then obviously you want something decent. If not, make sure that whatever screen it has isn't so tall that it will block your view of your home TV.

We don’t care about the screen. We wouldn’t be opposed to it, but we won’t pay more for it. The issue is we live on a road that the speed limit is 50 mph so running at night not a good idea even with sidewalks. We used to go to the gym, but with a newborn that is not as feasible as it was.

We have a Precor TRM 425. We wanted something that could handle higher miles from two people back to back, neither of which are petite. It has a decline feature and is a wider width and longer belt, too, which my husband was adamant about. We love it. I can’t wait to use it again (I’m coming off a long running hiatus), which is really saying something for a tread.

good to know
 
Paging @DopeyBadger to the white courtesy phone (and anyone else who has thoughts or experience with this)......what do you know about Stryd and running using power as a metric? I'm very familiar with cycling by power - it's how I train for and race all of my triathlons. Someone on my training team is running the Rotterdam full today using his Stryd pod as his race guide, and I got to wondering if you'd ever tried this, being a data and metrics and analytics kind of guy. I'm skeptical that a foot pod can measure power accurately enough to provide useful and real-time feedback like a power meter on a bike can, but maybe it does? Any thoughts?
 
Paging @DopeyBadger to the white courtesy phone (and anyone else who has thoughts or experience with this)......what do you know about Stryd and running using power as a metric? I'm very familiar with cycling by power - it's how I train for and race all of my triathlons. Someone on my training team is running the Rotterdam full today using his Stryd pod as his race guide, and I got to wondering if you'd ever tried this, being a data and metrics and analytics kind of guy. I'm skeptical that a foot pod can measure power accurately enough to provide useful and real-time feedback like a power meter on a bike can, but maybe it does? Any thoughts?
I have been using a Stryd pod for a few years now, except I had been using it for more accurate pace mainly to begin with. Sometime in the past year, I did start using their plans and started running by power. I have only really used a bike trainer (or any bike) for a few months and can’t really compare it to that.
I think it does respond pretty well to hills - maybe 2 or 3 steps??
I used it for 2 halves in the spring and one marathon (downhill) in the summer. I think I was pretty consistent with my power for those races. I’m not sure how well you can see this, but this is from one of the halves that was a little hillier than my typical training area. Orange is power and blue is pace.
Also, I would check out their FB page ‘Stryd Community’. People ask questions, and there are some pretty detailed answers, plus a lot of resources.
5C189496-61D9-478C-A042-9A0D3F37F252.jpeg
84820B31-AC27-4E9A-B9DB-FB1EC05D579E.jpeg
 
I have been using a Stryd pod for a few years now, except I had been using it for more accurate pace mainly to begin with. Sometime in the past year, I did start using their plans and started running by power. I have only really used a bike trainer (or any bike) for a few months and can’t really compare it to that.
I think it does respond pretty well to hills - maybe 2 or 3 steps??
I used it for 2 halves in the spring and one marathon (downhill) in the summer. I think I was pretty consistent with my power for those races. I’m not sure how well you can see this, but this is from one of the halves that was a little hillier than my typical training area. Orange is power and blue is pace.
Also, I would check out their FB page ‘Stryd Community’. People ask questions, and there are some pretty detailed answers, plus a lot of resources.

Thanks for the reply. Looks like it’s a good way to measure effort instead of using HR. I’ll check out the resources you recommended.
 
Paging @DopeyBadger to the white courtesy phone (and anyone else who has thoughts or experience with this)......what do you know about Stryd and running using power as a metric? I'm very familiar with cycling by power - it's how I train for and race all of my triathlons. Someone on my training team is running the Rotterdam full today using his Stryd pod as his race guide, and I got to wondering if you'd ever tried this, being a data and metrics and analytics kind of guy. I'm skeptical that a foot pod can measure power accurately enough to provide useful and real-time feedback like a power meter on a bike can, but maybe it does? Any thoughts?

I don't use Stryd but have the Garmin HRM-PRO which measures their version of power. I like the analytics I get using the strap but personally don't find the power merltric all that useful. I find HR combined with pace and perceived effort to be a better gauge.
 
I don't use Stryd but have the Garmin HRM-PRO which measures their version of power. I like the analytics I get using the strap but personally don't find the power merltric all that useful. I find HR combined with pace and perceived effort to be a better gauge.

Really? I have an HRM Pro as well and never looked at any of the Garmin metrics it spits out. Looks like I might have even more research to do. :)
 
Paging @DopeyBadger to the white courtesy phone (and anyone else who has thoughts or experience with this)......what do you know about Stryd and running using power as a metric? I'm very familiar with cycling by power - it's how I train for and race all of my triathlons. Someone on my training team is running the Rotterdam full today using his Stryd pod as his race guide, and I got to wondering if you'd ever tried this, being a data and metrics and analytics kind of guy. I'm skeptical that a foot pod can measure power accurately enough to provide useful and real-time feedback like a power meter on a bike can, but maybe it does? Any thoughts?

Haven't looked into it in what feels like a few years, but from memory its main benefit was for pacing on hills. Because we should see pace slow and speed up based on the grade of hills, but to what extent is the question. Having power, which operates separately but related to pace, can allow you to be more even on your hilly effort. I've found Strava's GAP to be a useful feature. While it doesn't allow for instantaneous corrections in pace based on hills, it does allow me to pre-plan my pace goals based on the grade.

The key is that the Stryd does not have to be accurate, it just needs to be precise. The actual power output number can be wrong, but as long as it gives you the wrong output consistently, then the data can be very useful. It's much like a wrist based HR monitor in that regard. I don't need to know exactly what my HR is, just as long as it is consistent for an equal level effort under a set conditions. The question then would be, can the Stryd pod be precise enough to be useful? That I don't know without doing some digging.

Screen Shot 2021-10-24 at 11.38.39 AM.png
 
Hi all, I haven’t been on in a while. It’s been an awful past 6 weeks. Thought my dad had a stroke but found out it was a brain tumor and also a lump in his lung. After brain surgery and such, it was too much for him and he passed away last Saturday. This all came out of nowhere and we’re still shocked. Though we miss him terribly, we are thankful it wasn’t longer for him.

DW and I are registered for W&D and I’m doing all three races. Needless to say, I’ve had no training or anything. I know I will finish. It’ll be ugly but it’ll be the most emotional ones I’ve done. I have no goals other than finish.

Congrats to everyone on their races! The race reports have been great and it’s given me something to look forward to reading. I was going to do Wineglass half but couldn’t. They were kind enough to change my registration to virtual so I will do that soon. My friend did it and said it’s great for a PR course or to try my first full. We’ll see.

I’m thankful for this supportive community and wanted to express how much you all help. It’s just not about running but life in general.
Im sorry for your loss!
 
Haven't looked into it in what feels like a few years, but from memory its main benefit was for pacing on hills. Because we should see pace slow and speed up based on the grade of hills, but to what extent is the question. Having power, which operates separately but related to pace, can allow you to be more even on your hilly effort. I've found Strava's GAP to be a useful feature. While it doesn't allow for instantaneous corrections in pace based on hills, it does allow me to pre-plan my pace goals based on the grade.

The key is that the Stryd does not have to be accurate, it just needs to be precise. The actual power output number can be wrong, but as long as it gives you the wrong output consistently, then the data can be very useful. It's much like a wrist based HR monitor in that regard. I don't need to know exactly what my HR is, just as long as it is consistent for an equal level effort under a set conditions. The question then would be, can the Stryd pod be precise enough to be useful? That I don't know without doing some digging.

View attachment 615978

One of my favorite graphics, especially when applied to analytical assays!
 
One of my favorite graphics, especially when applied to analytical assays!

Absolutely. When we do dose studies, we always say, I don't really care what the true value is as long as I can do a reasonable comparison across my groups with good replicates and a strong coefficient of variation.
 
Absolutely. When we do dose studies, we always say, I don't really care what the true value is as long as I can do a reasonable comparison across my groups with good replicates and a strong coefficient of variation.

We’re in kind of the opposite situation. We often need to ensure that we have an accurate content or concentration to feed into the next process step, which is sometimes performed at a different site. Accuracy is more important than precision in those situations. High accuracy, high precision is obviously the best, but high accuracy, low precision can often be mitigated through the use of replicates.

High precision, low accuracy reminds me of my weight tracking philosophy. I don’t care if my home scale is accurate, as long as it’s precise, because I’m more concerned with the slope of the weight curve over time than I am with having an exact weight at any given time point.
 
I cannot believe I ran in a race this weekend.
TLDR: it is not a PR course, and I was not up for running to PR the course. I will run it again next year, and maybe race myself and PR the course.

Longer Story:
Since 2020 I seem to have more challenges with long term planning and time getting away from me. In September when the kids got to go back to school full time, I thought I would have enough flexibility to get in long runs, and I was eyeing a fall half. My pandemic running in 2021 has consisted of squeezing in 3-4 mile runs 3-4x a week and sometimes up to 5, so I thought a 10K was already doable, but the half would be a bit of a challenge- mostly of time management. The local marathon that is usually run in the spring was postponed to the fall, and having run the 10K before and found it to be well run & convenient to my home, I think this is always a good race choice for me. The first and last miles are on my normal running loop, but the rest is a hilly combo of town, campus/hospital area, and the arboretum. It is not a PR course. It is beautiful, but lots of ups and downs. I cannot imagine why anyone would run this as a marathon :)
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As I care little for medals or shirts, I thought I would wait and sign up after seeing how things progressed. Life got in the way, and the time I thought would materialize for running did not. Two weeks before the race I decided I was going to run, but as my longest recent run had been only 6 miles, I stuck with the 10K. But I kept forgetting to register. I finally did so from my tiny phone screen the day before the race. I got to the expo (I did not stay long but was surprised it did have tables, maybe half as many as previous years) to pick up my bib and they handed me a bib for the half. I panicked and was pointed to a very long line which was for relay check ins, fixing/transferring registrations. After 25 minutes in line I was really tempted to just keep the bib and run or walk whatever race I felt like. But I waited and swapped bibs with a very polite and helpful staff member.

Sunday I was a bit panicky and convinced this was a terrible idea as I do not love racing, and I could just as easily run 6.2 miles all by myself. I got on my bike to ride to the start a little later than I should have, heard them sending the marathoners out when I was still 3 blocks away. The 10k/5K corral looked not as full as previous years and seemed to skew younger. About 20% had on masks in the corral, we all could have stuck our arms out and not touched anyone so there was a good amount of space until we took off for the slightly more narrow chute. The first 2.5 miles were pavement, then we got to the hilly trails, a nice flat (all too short) along the very misty river, back up the trail on different hills, and back through town to the finish. I was pretty convinced this would be the slowest 10K ever, but the last mile-ish is downhill so my mile splits were not even close to predictive of how I would finish. This company has some of the better finish lines locally, and while it was scaled back it was still a solid festive atmosphere. I skipped the medal and pancakes, grabbed a banana and bag of chips for my kids to fight over, and biked home to get ready to take the kiddos to their sporting events.

In the end, I was a minute faster than the first time I ran the course, and a minute slower than the last time (2019). I knew I was taking it easy in a couple of spots, and I was fine with it, but I also thought it was not possible to PR the course. If I had been in a headspace to think about it from the start and have some strategy about the hills instead of just taking them as they came, I could have PRed the course. I appreciated the spectators (and students cheering from the top of their dorms and houses), the signs telling me where to turn, and the Ted Lasso quotes peppering the trail side. I suppose I could run the course on my own next weekend and see if I did better, but I will probably fall back into my normal route where I do not have to think about where to turn or not. I will run it again when it goes back to the spring. In looking at the finish times, there 20% were fewer people than previously, but my age group was 2x the size as previous. All of those people must also be faster, because I fell from being middle of the pack to being at the tail end, with essentially the same race time.
616279
The same company is putting on a 10 K on a flat loop in two weeks, which is tempting me to think I might actually like to race myself on that one.
 
Mini Race Report: Chippewa Creek Challenge.

I had my first ever trail half marathon this weekend and was very happy with my time and, more so, my strategy. I have a lot of road training miles in my legs but I wasn't sure how that would translate to the trails but it appears that the fitness balanced out the lack of hilly trail miles.

This was a somewhat technical two loop course in a local nature reservation that was pretty much always either uphill or downhill. There were 4 shallow stream crossings per loop so 8 total and all of them were only ankle deep with enough rocks to get across mostly dry if you slowed down enough. All the leaves on the ground covered the rocks on a few of the hills but a rain that came through a few days in advance did clear up about half of the trail to make it easier to see what you were about to land on. Here is the course profile:

616291

I did one loop of this course a few weeks back so I had an idea what I had to deal with and I decided I would take it easy on the uphills for the first loop and not chase anyone down on the ascents. I'm generally a good descender and was able to bomb the downhills both loops. I had one runner I kept passing on the downhills and then he would pass me on the uphills. There was a short but steep uphill at the end of each loop (just before 6 and just after 12 above) and he, along with two other runners, got away from me on the first loop.

I was able to pass one of the three just before we went back through the start finish (I was in 8th place at that point) and just concentrated on keeping him behind me. I didn't think I'd see the other two again. When I got to the big descent at about 8.5 I just hit it. Got down to 5:33 pace at one point (and averaged 6:01 over the .64 miles) and passed 1 of the 2. This loop, however, I pushed on the hills and was able to keep him behind me. I figured I was a lock for 7th once we got to mile 10.5 and I didn't see him on the switchback any longer. As we got towards the stream crossings I saw the last guy that passed me on the first loop about 50 yards ahead. I kept closing until I was about 10 yards back and we hit that big hill the second time. I decided to power hike it while he ran and we went up at pretty much the same pace. At the very top it loops back for a quick steep (about 3 steps total) transition to a different trail and he just stopped and had to walk. From there I was able to push enough that even if he recovered and could get back on the gas he wouldn't have enough time to close me down over the final half mile.

I crawled back to 6th overall with a total time of 1:42:40 (7:51 pace) which considering the course profile and surface was better than I thought.

I have no doubt taking that first lap easy and letting the guys ahead of me wear themselves out earned me those 3 places. Here is the pace overlaid with the elevation and heart rate.

616296
 
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I have no doubt taking that first lap easy and letting the guys ahead of me wear themselves out earned me those 3 places. Here is the pace overlaid with the elevation and heart rate.

View attachment 616296

Am I reading this right? Your heart rate was 1100 bpm???

I kid, I kid...

Congrats on the good race -- thanks for sharing the report!
 



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