The Running Thread - 2019

[Professor_Cookie]

How do you all manage the food intake vs the miles run in training and then what is the best way to avoid gaining weight post race come next January?

Usually I just hop on the restaurant employee party train and don't get off until I am over 300#.

Something I thought a lot about on long runs was how inefficient marathon training was for my, and I am sure other peoples, diets. I was going from burning in excess off 6000-7000 calories on long run days to having a rest day the next day where I was supposed to only eat about 1600 calories. I think this made it a struggle towards the end. Factor in the extra cost of food, lost time with family, sagging work performance and I am over it for now. I have never had this problem with 1/2 marathon training, since the workload wasn't as extreme, at least that's what I think.

I track calories and my plan is to run less, strength train more(which I do in my apartment with my babby in her highchair giving me pointers), and actually try to even out my energy expenditure and hopefully get down to 205 or so, depending on how much muscle I put on. I haven't been 205 since I was probably 13.

I have a really inappropriate simile for how I feel about the marathon at this point in time, but it's not for a family friendly message board full of strangers. I'll give it ago again in two years, when hopefully I have finished my final goal of my 40th year in getting a 6-pack. I'm still down 60# from last September.

 

[Professor_Cookie]

I'm going to digress form the QOTD for a few, if you'll indulge me...

I just got a new Garmin - I don't especially need GPS/interval alerts/tracking/etc., as my phone's been handling that just fine for many years, but I do often find myself wishing I could look at the time or distance quickly without fishing my phone out of its pocket, and my near vision has gotten so bad, I can't read any of my old watches without reading glasses, even with my arm stretched out. And the Garmin was essentially free to me, thanks to selling some stuff I no longer need. So I have this new Garmin (45S) and I can see its big numbers - hooray! AND, it's comfortable - hooray again! Bonus: it's a really good-looking watch! It also came with HR tracking...

About the HR thing. I think I need to just do what I do and let it do what it does and see what shows up for a while, but I'll say this so far: starting to track HR in the heat of FL summer is maybe not the best time to start. I ran (run-walk intervals) what felt like an easy 4 miles the other day: felt good, could easily have kept up that slow pace for lots more miles; yeah I was warm, but the Feels Like was "only" 90-something, rather than our usual 100-something, and it felt good! But Garmin says I spent the bulk of that run in HR Zone 4. Huh. It sure didn't feel like a Zone 4 effort. Maybe my working HR is just higher than the average person? Maybe I'm sooooo acclimated to existing in this heat, I'm comfortable at higher HRs? IDK. It'll be interesting to try a test on the treadmill and see if I can get a real-life idea of where my max HR actually comes in. And it'll really be interesting to see where my HR falls when (IF?!?!?!?!) it finally cools down!

My heart rate often does not look how it feels. I could be in a big climb sucking Os with it sitting at 110, or running downhill and feeling great but having it read 180, so who's to say. If I felt like spending the money I would move back to a heart rate strap. Maybe I should see if my old strap is compatible with my new watch.

 

[bovie]

QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
Without a watch. So many apps to do something similar. I did run the Disney Marathon this year with no working headphones, so I can do it... but I really don't want to.
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
20K for sure. Love getting swept up in it.
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
T shirt, cause I blister terribly.
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
-10 I guess? Def run in heat more though.
5. In high humidity or high winds?
Winds, I think.

 

[opusone]

About the HR thing. I think I need to just do what I do and let it do what it does and see what shows up for a while, but I'll say this so far: starting to track HR in the heat of FL summer is maybe not the best time to start. I ran (run-walk intervals) what felt like an easy 4 miles the other day: felt good, could easily have kept up that slow pace for lots more miles; yeah I was warm, but the Feels Like was "only" 90-something, rather than our usual 100-something, and it felt good! But Garmin says I spent the bulk of that run in HR Zone 4. Huh. It sure didn't feel like a Zone 4 effort. Maybe my working HR is just higher than the average person? Maybe I'm sooooo acclimated to existing in this heat, I'm comfortable at higher HRs? IDK. It'll be interesting to try a test on the treadmill and see if I can get a real-life idea of where my max HR actually comes in. And it'll really be interesting to see where my HR falls when (IF?!?!?!?!) it finally cools down!

I assume you are just using the default HR zones with your new watch. You should set your own HR zones for your device as a first step (can do this within User Settings for the device on Garmin Connect or the Garmin smartphone app - recommend using % of HRR method). You need to input your resting HR and your max HR, then the table will calculate the rest...

Here is what it looks like on Garmin Connect:



...and here is what it looks like on the Garmin iOS app:

 

[KevM]

I was going to make the same suggestion as @opusone about changing the Garmin to your specific hear rate zones.

 

[jmasgat]

ATTQOTD:
--I don't do music, so easy call on this on
--My kneejerk reaction would be to say 20, since people with poor race etiquette and people who get in my way annoy me. OTOH, 20 would just feel like being out for a long run, and I must admit, it can be oh so useful to "spot" people to push one's pace. So I will pick 20K--but only if everyone is well-behaved and I get to start up front.
--Cotton shirt. I need those wicking socks, and sports bras can absorb some sweat, so I think a shirt might be okay.
-- -10....I believe I have actually done that....once anyway.
--Wind. I cannot tolerate humidity.

@PrincessV My most recent HR data is on the high end of where it is "supposed" to be--even though my zones are properly calibrated. Summer heat and humidity has a huge impact on me. I am convinced that if an outside observer looked at a given run of mine by looking individually at HR, respiration and reported "leg feel", they would come back with three different answers on how I did!

 

[Sleepless Knight]

I have never had this problem with 1/2 marathon training, since the workload wasn't as extreme, at least that's what I think.

This makes sense to me. Before the marathon, I had always fueled the exact same way during training runs and in the races. It never caused a problem so I had no idea anything was amiss. Except when I carried this philosophy to marathon training, I suddenly began to experience problems such as low energy and difficulty maintaining paces I should have no problem with.

As I discussed my problems back and forth with Coach, he helped me realize that the during the run fueling I had been doing for years was too low for the marathon. The extra workload required me to take in more fuel during the runs. It took multiple runs to find the right combination of sufficient fuel and properly settling in my stomach, but I definitely noticed the improvement once I had the amount of in run fuel that I needed. From then it was just figuring out the kind of fuel that settled best.

 

[camaker]

I thought I’d share a cautionary tale from my run this evening. Maybe this is just common sense and showcases my lack thereof. If so, feel free to just laugh at me.

I run in wicking hats to keep sweat out of my eyes. Headsweats, to be exact, although I don’t think that’s necessarily relevant here. They’re great at soaking up the sweat and facilitating evaporative cooling. I never really gave much thought to what happened with the other sweat components until this evening, though.

I got caught out in a downpour in a thunderstorm during tonight’s run. That was bad enough, trying to race the storm home before it really caught me and got dangerous, but what made it that much worse was that in addition to fighting the rain on my glasses obscuring vision, that rain was hard enough to flush the salts dried into the hat down into my eyes. By the time I bailed into a church entryway my eyes were on fire from the salty solution flowing steadily into my eyes. It took 5-10 minutes to get my eyes clear enough to text my wife to come pick me up.

Don’t make my mistake, wash those running hats and visors regularly to prevent salt buildup in the fabric.

 

[JulieODC]

I first always ask myself what is my goal? It's to be healthy and to be fast. If I'm healthy and fast, then I'm fine with whatever number is on the scale. So I usually assess my weight in that view. I don't necessarily have a number I need to hit. Rather I want my weight to be able to support my goals of being healthy and fast.

I'm a calorie in and calorie out type (although healthy choices matter). Based on my ability to lose/gain/maintain weight, I'm pretty sure my BMR is around 1750-1850 calories. So if I'm looking to maintain weight, then I'm usually just eating whatever my caloric burn from exercise is + BMR.

Example:

Burned 2400 calories running and cycling via Garmin and TrainerRoad information.
1800+2400 = 4200 calories to be consumed to maintain weight.

To lose weight at about 0.5 pounds per week, then I'd aim for a 50 calorie reduction (4150).
To lose weight at about 1.0 pounds per week, then I'd aim for a 100 calorie reduction (4100).

I try to walk a very fine line of losing weight and making endurance gains when I'm training for an event. It's hard to do it and when I've tried to be too aggressive is when I usually end up with skeletal injuries.

To avoid being hungry, I tend to eat foods that are high on the satiety index (although to be fair it just so happens I was eating these foods already and only recently learned about this). Oatmeal, eggs, oranges, apples, carrots, brown pasta, whole grain bread, and popcorn are all common items I eat on a daily basis. So 100 calories of these foods leave you fuller than 100 calories of other foods (like candy, doughnuts, chips, etc.). Link Link Link

When it comes to post-training, I do expect to gain some weight as my body isn't necessarily in "racing mode" anymore. But I reduce calorie intake to try and match my reduced training volume. But dropping from 4200 calories consumed per day down to 2000 calories per day is always a harsh adjustment. Just like my sole day off during training (Monday) is always a hard day to match in/out.

This was my thesis research, so I approve

 

[DopeyBadger]

This was my thesis research, so I approve

That's interesting! Which part specifically? Was it perhaps published so I could read it?

 

[OldSlowGoofyGuy]

1. Without a watch
2. A race with 20,000 people
3. Cotton socks
4. -10F
5. High winds

1. Depends...If on a treadmill, then without a watch, but if outside, then without music.
2. 20,000 - There's no party in the back with smaller races!
3. Socks
4. -10F - It's not that bad once you are moving.
5. I'll take high winds over inevitable chafing any day.

Carefully researching the responses, I think we are perfectly anti-each-other, which means we have to be careful: if we ever shake hands, we both disappear.

 

[JulieODC]

That's interesting! Which part specifically? Was it perhaps published so I could read it?

Sure! Will send it....

 

[dis_or_dat]

Don’t make my mistake, wash those running hats and visors regularly to prevent salt buildup in the fabric.

Training through these heat waves has left my trusty hat completely white and crunchy with salt! I finally washed it when I was on a prolonged treadmill streak.

 

[Kerry1957]

Don’t make my mistake, wash those running hats and visors regularly to prevent salt buildup in the fabric.

I have 3 or 4 running hats that I rotate through each week, and I just throw them in the washer after each use. What works for me is just to put all my running clothes in the washer right after my run while still "moist" (OK dripping nastiness); quick cycle with not much detergent and no fabric softener or dryer.

 

[McNs]

I know we did something similar long ago, but how about a little round of "would you rather" for today's QOTD?

If anyone has been "lurking" or hasn't participated in the thread for a while, be sure to jump in today!

QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
5. In high humidity or high winds?

1. without music/podcasts - I NEED that GPS data (though I guess I could us the phone for that..)
2. 20,000 - makes it more of an event
3. socks - cotton t's are horrible when soaked with sweat
4. 110F - I can handle heat much better than cold
5. winds - humidity just kills me, wind just slows me down but only for half the run

 

[PrincessV]

I assume you are just using the default HR zones with your new watch. You should set your own HR zones for your device as a first step (can do this within User Settings for the device on Garmin Connect or the Garmin smartphone app - recommend using % of HRR method).

I was going to make the same suggestion as @opusone about changing the Garmin to your specific hear rate zones.

Thanks, and yep: without anything else to go by, I just let Garmin figure out the calculations. So last night, since the Feels Like was over 100*, I tried running by HR, trying to keep it in Zone 3... and was ready to lose my mind, it was so slow and boring. I got fed up and decided to try a Max HR test: ran 3 minutes at as fast a pace as I could, rested 3 minutes, then did it again and took the highest HR of that second 3 minutes - but I didn't really give it full effort because, again, it was 100* and I'm not a total idiot. It was around 85% effort, I'd say. Garmin originally had my max HR as 172, but I hit 175 in my test, so I think my actual max HR in normal conditions is likely 185-190, possibly more. I will, however, concede that my ridiculously slow pace did handle the extreme heat really well, and it was nice to finish not feeling overheated, so there's some knowledge and value gained there. But I manually adjusted my max HR in Connect and will see how that pans out over time!

Don’t make my mistake, wash those running hats and visors regularly to prevent salt buildup in the fabric.

ACK!!! People don't wash their hats and visors after every use?? It's never occurred to me not to, lol!

 

[flav]

ATTQOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch - running's the only time I get to listen to music
2. A race with 20 people - I hate crowds
3. Cotton socks - I ran and worked out in them for years without issue
4. In 110F - ideally neither, but I'll always take heat over cold
5. In high humidity - I thrive in high humidity!

1. Without music, I never do as it messes my rythm.
2. 20000 people, I like my race to be events!
3. It depends on the temperature and the length of the race. I could live with a good quality, thin cotton T-shirt with body glide and the unstylish possibility of removing it. I used to train in cotton socks before starting longer distance running. Those too could be removed in the worst case.
4. -10F well dressed and protected.
5. High wind as long as they are not dangerous. I would probably throw away any goals I had and enjoy the feeling of that wind on my face. I am worth noting in high humidity.

 

[roxymama]

QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
If a training run I can go without music, but for a race I kind of need the music to keep me moving and to distract me from stalking my watch. So I'll pick to keep music.
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people? 20,000 so I don't get stuck with no one to pass and no one passing me to chase. Also it usually comes with good swag.
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks? Tshirt...I've successfully ran in cotton tshirts, but had bad experience with socks.
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures? -10F. I wilt in heat. Though realistically I'd skip both or hit the treadmill.
5. In high humidity or high winds? High winds are helpful at your back

 

[garneska]

@camaker i wash my visor/hat every week. The glasses are a huge issue, if i think it may rain (not pouring) i will put in my contacts to avoid not being able to see (does not help with salt in the eyes). i hate contacts and do not wearing them during the day. I only wear them for running when the weather dictates, or when the race starts in the dark and finishes in the light, or triathlons because of swimming and transition. For practicing swimming i even have prescription goggles, they are not perfect (i buy them off the shelf) but i can at least see something.

Wow that was much longer than, "remember to wash your hats every week "

 

[QueenFernando]

Don’t make my mistake, wash those running hats and visors regularly to prevent salt buildup in the fabric.

I have about 6 of the headsweats visors for this very reason. They get washed after each use just like the tanks and shorts. Also, for long runs I add a bondi band underneath the visor for more sweat wicking. It's very annoying when there's so much sweat that it fills the visor and starts dripping off the bill. The bondi band delays this a bit.

Since we're talking about laundry, I've been experimenting and found that adding a scoop of baking soda to Hex detergent has successfully gotten rid of the stink in workout clothes. It even got rid of the big, bad, old stank in one of my husband's old running tanks. It was so bad!