The 'Planning Backlash'

[JimmyV]

But then again, I am a big planner and planning a Disney vacation is enjoyable to me. We're 2.5 months away from booking our ADR's and we already have an idea of what places we plan on dining at. It may also help me decide if we need to keep our park hoppers or not.

Yes, this can be enjoyable. And on your appointed ADR day, you get everything you want. Joy and rapture. You know which parks you will be in on which days and everything is lined up with surgical precision. I know, because I am the same way. But then........three weeks before you depart, the park hours change. The MK was going to close at 8:00 followed by "Wishes" so you figured that you could safely make an ADR at the California Grill at 7:15. Now the park is open until 10:00 with Wishes to follow. You planned to go to DHS on a day without F! because those days are less crowded. The TP Crowd Calendar has that day pegged as a "3". Then they extend the hours, add F! and TP revises its estimate to a "7" and the park is no longer a "most recommended" park on either TP or easywdw. So back to the drawing board you go. Maybe I'll switch my California Grill ADR to 8:30 and catch Wishes as we have dessert. Nope. Fully booked. Maybe we'll pass on DHS the day we were going to go there and head to Epcot instead. Any FP+ left for Soarin'? Yeah. At 8:00 p.m. There goes my hope of using up my 3 FPs to get a 4th. Are there any tables at Via Napoli for dinner? Nope. And so it goes. I really used to enjoy the planning, but now the layers of complexity and the moving targets make this less and less fun. Few if any other places to which I travel present me with the last minute changes and moving parts as WDW.

 

[JimmyV]

Might have been helpful.

The 3 yo screaming "I can't see the Mona Lisa" when we finally got to it would have been avoidable.

Oh, I agree! But along with "helpful" comes a whole lot of extra planning and schedule noodling.

 

[pigletgirl]

Yes, this can be enjoyable. And on your appointed ADR day, you get everything you want. Joy and rapture. You know which parks you will be in on which days and everything is lined up with surgical precision. I know, because I am the same way. But then........three weeks before you depart, the park hours change. The MK was going to close at 8:00 followed by "Wishes" so you figured that you could safely make an ADR at the California Grill at 7:15. Now the park is open until 10:00 with Wishes to follow. You planned to go to DHS on a day without F! because those days are less crowded. The TP Crowd Calendar has that day pegged as a "3". Then they extend the hours, add F! and TP revises its estimate to a "7" and the park is no longer a "most recommended" park on either TP or easywdw. So back to the drawing board you go. Maybe I'll switch my California Grill ADR to 8:30 and catch Wishes as we have dessert. Nope. Fully booked. Maybe we'll pass on DHS the day we were going to go there and head to Epcot instead. Any FP+ left for Soarin'? Yeah. At 8:00 p.m. There goes my hope of using up my 3 FPs to get a 4th. Are there any tables at Via Napoli for dinner? Nope. And so it goes. I really used to enjoy the planning, but now the layers of complexity and the moving targets make this less and less fun. Few if any other places to which I travel present me with the last minute changes and moving parts as WDW.

I will agree that is a major downside to this new system. We all do the best we can and if Disney changes it, that is there prerogative whether we like it or not.

 

[Luckybee]

I'll let you know.....I have to start planning our 9 day trip to Aulani for next July. Got the hotel, air and rental car, now I have figure out where we wanna go, what we want to do, and what we should eat when we aren't hanging at the resort.

If you'd like any suggestions or help send me a pm and we can exchange emails. I've been to Ko Olina(the same resort area where Aulani is ) a number of times and know Oahu pretty well.

 

[DisneyKidds]

See, I find that more stressful. Disney has made quite easy for people to get their reservations made (pending on the website working... ) In Hawaii, Europe, Mexico, etc you have to get it all together yourself and you hope that it all goes well. There are many more unknowns doing that than booking FP+.

Agreed, I expect it to be much harder to research and plan Hawaii than a WDW would be.

 

[Luckybee]

See, I find that more stressful. Disney has made quite easy for people to get their reservations made (pending on the website working... )

In Hawaii, Europe, Mexico, etc you have to get it all together yourself and you hope that it all goes well. There are many more unknowns doing that than booking FP+.

I don't disagree that there are more unknowns, but that doesn't make planning any more difficult. Rather one simply has more choices and more options. What you're saying is more about the "security" of a Disney vacation vs another as opposed to the planning aspect which is a whole other thread

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

From what source did you obtain a two and a half minute ride duration for 7DMT? Everything I've seen (and after having ridden it multiple times) is less than a minute. Even if you are correct, some people do find it rather unusual to plan several months in advance for an amusement park ride that lasts less than the time it took to plan it in the first place.

And sorry, but MK is an amusement park.

Edit: Thanks Shaden. I wasn't counting the last part because for me the ride was technically over at that point but I can see how some reports are 50 seconds and total "experience" is 150 seconds.

Umm, if a portion is part of the attraction, you don't get to say that doesn't count. Well, I suppose you could--but you sound silly for doing so.

Here is an unedited video--it is only 2 minutes and appears to leave out the first incline--since I am unable to ride it, that is just a guess as to how much was prior to the drop where the video commences.

Do you make of a habit of shortening attraction times to only those parts you find valid?

Or are you willing to concede hyperbole? Because the ride isn't "techncially"
over until you reach the unloading platform (assuming no stops due to ride breakdown or unloading back up like happens at IASW and POTC).

https://www.youtube.com/embed/lmb0rKqdx1A?autoplay=1


Your point can easily be made without chopping off half the attraction time.

 

[FlipHipster]

MK, EP, AK and DHS are just amusement parks.

Sometimes referred to as theme parks, which are really just amusement parks in drag

 

[JimmyV]

I don't disagree that there are more unknowns, but that doesn't make planning any more difficult. Rather one simply has more choices and more options. What you're saying is more about the "security" of a Disney vacation vs another as opposed to the planning aspect which is a whole other thread

Great point. When I plan a trip to some place I haven't been before, it can seem daunting at first. But as I plan, I research. And as I research, I learn. And the learning is the very best part of the whole process. When I plan a trip to WDW, I'm not learning anything. I am simply managing. Learning is a whole lot more fun than managing!

 

[Luckybee]

Great point. When I plan a trip to some place I haven't been before, it can seem daunting at first. But as I plan, I research. And as I research, I learn. And the learning is the very best part of the whole process. When I plan a trip to WDW, I'm not learning anything. I am simply managing. Learning is a whole lot more fun than managing!

Can I agree with you agreeing with me or is that hyperbole ?

 

[Laketravis]

Yes, this can be enjoyable. And on your appointed ADR day, you get everything you want. Joy and rapture. You know which parks you will be in on which days and everything is lined up with surgical precision. I know, because I am the same way. But then........three weeks before you depart, the park hours change. The MK was going to close at 8:00 followed by "Wishes" so you figured that you could safely make an ADR at the California Grill at 7:15. Now the park is open until 10:00 with Wishes to follow. You planned to go to DHS on a day without F! because those days are less crowded. The TP Crowd Calendar has that day pegged as a "3". Then they extend the hours, add F! and TP revises its estimate to a "7" and the park is no longer a "most recommended" park on either TP or easywdw. So back to the drawing board you go. Maybe I'll switch my California Grill ADR to 8:30 and catch Wishes as we have dessert. Nope. Fully booked. Maybe we'll pass on DHS the day we were going to go there and head to Epcot instead. Any FP+ left for Soarin'? Yeah. At 8:00 p.m. There goes my hope of using up my 3 FPs to get a 4th. Are there any tables at Via Napoli for dinner? Nope. And so it goes. I really used to enjoy the planning, but now the layers of complexity and the moving targets make this less and less fun. Few if any other places to which I travel present me with the last minute changes and moving parts as WDW.

That is exactly what we realized on our last several trips. I'm a planner, love to plan, take a spreadsheet with me of all ADR's and FP's and activities and everything. But assembling that plan is just the beginning, it morphs before and during the visit based on external factors and changing personal preference and has the potential to take an otherwise enjoyable planning activity (for some) and turn it into a frustrating exercise in logistics.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

For goodness sake, I guess some people equate The Eiffel Tower with Test Track!

I equate it to the Tower of Terror.

If I ever make it back, the first level is enough for me. I did not like going got he top at all and I did not like the Wonka-vator. Pretty sure that Superman movie where has to stop the free fall did not help me.

At least on TOT, there are restraints.

 

[DisneyKidds]

That is exactly what we realized on our last several trips. I'm a planner, love to plan, take a spreadsheet with me of all ADR's and FP's and activities and everything. But assembling that plan is just the beginning, it morphs before and during the visit based on external factors and changing personal preference and has the potential to take an otherwise enjoyable planning activity (for some) and turn it into a frustrating exercise in logistics.

Don't need spreadsheets anymore......got MDE!

 

[mellyf]

Agreed, I expect it to be much harder to research and plan Hawaii than a WDW would be.

Just speaking for myself, I would say more time-consuming, rather than harder (and I'm talking about Disney). We've been to Hawaii three times, the last two times renting a house on Kauai. The first time we went to Kauai, I definitely spent more time researching rental homes, things to do, flights, etc. The second time planning time was minimal. We rented the same house, booked flights, the zip-line tour, and that was basically it, I think. We certainly spent time exploring, finding different beaches etc, but the planning time I'd spent really was minimal. I definitely spend more time planning a Disney trip.

Now if we ever get to go to Europe, which my husband and I would like to do, I definitely anticipate tons of planning being needed.

 

[minnie mum]

I strongly disagree with you. Two weeks in Europe or Hawaii is a piece of cake compared to Disney today. Matter of fact just planned 3 weeks and it took far less time than did my last trip to Disney.

I agree very much with this and your previous post. It sounds like we have had a similar history of travel and travel planning. I am a planner by nature, and always do extensive research when organizing an upcoming vacation to a new destination. But the amount of work that is now required for a WDW trip has gotten ridiculous.

No one is forcing anyone to plan a Disney vacation. There are many other places people can vacation besides a theme park in Florida.

Very true. And that is something that has become very obvious to many WDW veterans. As much as we have loved WDW in the past, it has become more work for less return. DH and I don't go to WDW for any other reason than to visit the parks. If I want a resort vacation, I go elsewhere. When I find that I can't enjoy those parks as I have in the past, and have to spend additional hours jumping thru hoops in the attempt, it is time to put the parks in the rear view mirror.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Such good ideas, issues, and concepts here. Had to summarize to remind myself (mostly quotes from you great folks):

1) books, web sites, travel agencies, discussion boards, Touring Plans and color-coded spreadsheets far pre-date FP+
2) The key now is to be willing to pre-plan as much as possible AND be flexible when things don't work out as you planned when you are actually there.
3) Nugov2 mentioned the frustration when Disney changes park hours a few days ahead, while you’ve had to make reservations 60 or 180 days ahead; plus ADRs that are hoarded by people to keep plans flexible.
4) Disney planners are like dogs (Travis I am ONLY kidding!!!! ) Seriously, I am just joking there…
5) My WHOLE daily life is rigid schedules, I don't want that on vacation. – I feel you there!
6) Eyehartdisney had a good idea – why aren’t the ADR’s and FP+ both at the same time? 60 days or whatever?

Probably the best question!
It isn't like they don't know what the hours will be.

Tech question--could it be physical capacity of the system? This is assuming that There are far more capacity slots for Fast Pass versus seating capacity at restaurants. In other words--is it just too much data? Because I can't no early think of another reason. Bookings are already self limiting due to the necessity if an admission ticket for each day you want a FP+. This a not required at the time one makes an ADR.

 

[Laketravis]

Don't need spreadsheets anymore......got MDE!

LOL! But MDE doesn't show dining credit allocations, and we are normally on a dining plan. Nor does it show alternate plans (at least I don't think it does). And I admit that I am one who sometimes makes multiple ADR's under different accounts (don't taze me, bro!) and that isn't easily seen from a single MDE view.

 

[Laketravis]

Probably the best question!
It isn't like they don't know what the hours will be.

Tech question--could it be physical capacity of the system? This is assuming that There are far more capacity slots for Fast Pass versus seating capacity at restaurants. In other words--is it just too much data? Because I can't no early think of another reason. Bookings are already self limiting due to the necessity if an admission ticket for each day you want a FP+. This a not required at the time one makes an ADR.

From an IT perspective, no - it's not a technical issue. I seem to recall a discussion about it long ago and someone from the food service industry pointing out that the further out reservations can be accommodated, the more conducive it is for management to budget/order/staff.

 

[redsbe]

How many other amusement parks get 18 million annual visitors as MK does or even the 10 million plus DS, AK and Epcot get? In my view, frankly much of the need or reasoning for planning is to deal with the crowds and lines including rides and meal reservations, and for multiple day trips you are planning for several days with events and reservations in different parks. It requires little planning to visit Six Flags or for us to go to Cedar Point for the day (3 million visitors a year) except weather and avoiding the major crowd days on summer holidays like 4th of July. When I visited WDW in the mid 1990s some planning, but much less was required because the crowds were also much less.

How many other trip destinations, including theme or amusement parks, have as many events, activities, shows, rides and food options, available in one place required some advance planning? WDW is not same as taking a trip to Paris or cruise or Hawaii and having entire days focuses on one site or activity or having some aspects of your trip taken care of for you (meals).

 

[pigletgirl]

How many other amusement parks get 18 million annual visitors as MK does or even the 10 million plus DS, AK and Epcot get? In my view, frankly much of the need or reasoning for planning is to deal with the crowds and lines including rides and meal reservations, and for multiple day trips you are planning for several days with events and reservations in different parks. It requires little planning to visit Six Flags or for us to go to Cedar Point for the day (3 million visitors a year) except weather and avoiding the major crowd days on summer holidays like 4th of July. When I visited WDW in the mid 1990s some planning, but much less was required because the crowds were also much less.

How many other trip destinations, including theme or amusement parks, have as many events, activities, shows, rides and food options, available in one place required some advance planning? WDW is not same as taking a trip to Paris or cruise or Hawaii and having entire days focuses on one site or activity or having some aspects of your trip taken care of for you (meals).

I just think about how many families, groups, couples and solo travelers come and go on a daily basis. I could not imagine trying to book ADR's, FP and doing online check-in all at the same time. And on top of that, I'm sure that is a common time for visitors to make their final payment and you definitely wouldn't want the website to be screwy.

I like the pace at which we go. And for us, the 60 day mark is when we like to have our final payment made.

At least we aren't making FP+ at 180 days out!