The Official LOST Season Five *No Spoilers* Thread

[beattyfamily]

THere is no spoiler anywhere saying the baby is a boy. The pp was just speculating or assumming.

I think the baby kind of looks like a boy but more than that, the Dr. is Asian and knowing he had a baby on the island caused many to guess it might be Miles, a boy and also Asian.

 

[TheZue]

See I can't buy this because Desmond could not change the fact that Charlie had to die, but he prevented his death from lightning, drowning, and the arrow ****y trap. So while the fact that he died did not change, the way he died did in fact change. It relates to Daniels comment on time travel about being on a street, you can go back and forth on the street but you can't get on another street. Therefore the views could change and the peoples interaction could change but in the end the same things would happen. It's the end that remains, but the means can change. I know that people have said Desmond is special but, how special?

After John visited Richard in 1954 and said he was their leader Richard visits John in the hospital and later as a young boy. Would he have visited John if John had not flashed to 1954?

The other confusing issue is when Michael tried to commit suicide in the alley. The gun wouldn't work for him when he tried to shoot himself in the head. Had he really wanted to die he might have tried other ways and still not been successful because it was not his time.

We don't know if it changed for sure because we only saw it in Desmond's dreams/visions. Maybe him having those visions and then 'altering' how it happened is the only way the timeline ever worked. It might appear to the people involved that they "changed the means" but it doesn't mean they really did. And we know Desmond wasn't always accurate because he thought Penny was on the island when she never was.

And as for Richard visiting John maybe that's the only way that ever happened...there doesn't need to be a first time where things are different and in this case there isn't even a vision to indicate it ever was different than Richard going to visit John as a child.

 

[brerrabbit]

What confuses me with this statement is Sawyer was on the island when Claire gave birth to Aaron. Later when he was flashing in time and he heard a girl screaming and ran in the woods and came across Kate delivering Aaron, he would have been occupying the same space at the same time as his current self. He very well could have run into himself in the woods.

Again my only reference to this is the movie Timecop and Dr Marvin Candles reaction to the one rabbit being in the same room at the same time. They can be there and they can see each other, they just can't touch each other, because that would be occupying the same place in four dimensions. Three dimensions can pinpoint your exact location on the planet (a one foot square of ground in Central Park in New York) while the fourth dimension is time (a future you and a past you). This has not occured on Lost.

 

[debraW76]

I'm gonna rewatch that episode to see if they say its gender. Until then here is a pic. Nothing pink or blue so I may be wrong.

 

[brerrabbit]

At least one of the guys that write about Lost seems to believe that things can change with time travel in the show and offers this challenge:

Whatever Happened, Happened... Sort of
Now would be a great time for the vehement "nothing that already happened can be changed!" movement to explain why the original Dharma radio transmission is playing on the co-pilot's radio as he attempts his mayday call. Especially since Rousseau had changed the message in the mid-80's and had actually turned the message off about two seasons ago. Following the one time string theory, hearing that message in 2007 would be an impossibility.

 

[debraW76]

At least one of the guys that write about Lost seems to believe that things can change with time travel in the show and offers this challenge:

Whatever Happened, Happened... Sort of
Now would be a great time for the vehement "nothing that already happened can be changed!" movement to explain why the original Dharma radio transmission is playing on the co-pilot's radio as he attempts his mayday call. Especially since Rousseau had changed the message in the mid-80's and had actually turned the message off about two seasons ago. Following the one time string theory, hearing that message in 2007 would be an impossibility.

Huh? What message? Did I miss something. I didn't hear a message when he was maday-ing.

My head hurts

 

[brerrabbit]

This is his last comment on the changing of time theroy:

Uh Oh!
It certainly looks as if things *have* changed. From the moment Sun and Faraday walk past the rusted lamps on the rundown Dharma dock to minute they arrive at the overly ramshackle barracks... something's way, way off. This isn't the way the Others left the barracks not-so-long ago, and it's definitely not the result of a few short years of neglect. Big trees grow way too close to the buildings, and everything looks extremely beat up. As Christian takes them inside the recruitment center, we see printed signs hanging at odd angles and the dust-covered photographs and recruitment materials used by the Dharma Initiative. We saw this place 10 minutes ago in 1977, and now we see it 30 years later... only it can't look this way because after the purge we know the Others lived here for a good decade or more. And when they did live here they kept **** neat and tidy - they kept the bushes groomed, the grass watered, and Ethan was pretty handy with a hammer and nails. It's not possible that the Others would live here without de-Dharmatizing the barracks, especially considering It would get a little creepy living somewhere surrounded by photos of people you mass murdered with poison gas. So what does it all mean?

It means of course, that something's changed. Someone has changed something in the past to create the timeline Sun and Frank are now seeing. This jives well with the original transmission still coming from the radio tower, and on a more extensive level it explains the subtle changes in scenery, decor, and circumstance that we've seen throughout the whole show. Faraday's theory appears to be wrong: things can be changed. The bigger question is this: were they changed for the better?

Was the purge avoided? If so, what happened to Dharma? What happened to the Others? Is the whole island dead? Is the whole world dead? Was the war Widmore predicted already waged? If so, did the right side win? And if something really terrible did come to pass, how can Sun, Frank, Ben and Locke fix it? Or is it up to the 815 crew to make those changes from their position in the past? BIG questions.

 

[elizke]

I don't remember anything about what gender the baby was, and there's no reference to the baby's sex in the show recap on the Lost site on ABC. I'm still thinking it could be Sun.

 

[smartestnumber5]

This is his last comment on the changing of time theroy:

Uh Oh!
It certainly looks as if things *have* changed. From the moment Sun and Faraday walk past the rusted lamps on the rundown Dharma dock to minute they arrive at the overly ramshackle barracks... something's way, way off. This isn't the way the Others left the barracks not-so-long ago, and it's definitely not the result of a few short years of neglect. Big trees grow way too close to the buildings, and everything looks extremely beat up. As Christian takes them inside the recruitment center, we see printed signs hanging at odd angles and the dust-covered photographs and recruitment materials used by the Dharma Initiative. We saw this place 10 minutes ago in 1977, and now we see it 30 years later... only it can't look this way because after the purge we know the Others lived here for a good decade or more. And when they did live here they kept **** neat and tidy - they kept the bushes groomed, the grass watered, and Ethan was pretty handy with a hammer and nails. It's not possible that the Others would live here without de-Dharmatizing the barracks, especially considering It would get a little creepy living somewhere surrounded by photos of people you mass murdered with poison gas. So what does it all mean?

It means of course, that something's changed. Someone has changed something in the past to create the timeline Sun and Frank are now seeing. This jives well with the original transmission still coming from the radio tower, and on a more extensive level it explains the subtle changes in scenery, decor, and circumstance that we've seen throughout the whole show. Faraday's theory appears to be wrong: things can be changed. The bigger question is this: were they changed for the better?

Couldn't Sun and the rest of the plane have arrived on the island in the future (meaning after 2007)?

 

[Kycha]

This is his last comment on the changing of time theroy:

Uh Oh!
It certainly looks as if things *have* changed. From the moment Sun and Faraday walk past the rusted lamps on the rundown Dharma dock to minute they arrive at the overly ramshackle barracks...

I assume he meant Frank and not Faraday? And who is this comment from? Can you provide a link?

something's way, way off. This isn't the way the Others left the barracks not-so-long ago, and it's definitely not the result of a few short years of neglect. Big trees grow way too close to the buildings, and everything looks extremely beat up. As Christian takes them inside the recruitment center, we see printed signs hanging at odd angles and the dust-covered photographs and recruitment materials used by the Dharma Initiative. We saw this place 10 minutes ago in 1977, and now we see it 30 years later... only it can't look this way because after the purge we know the Others lived here for a good decade or more. And when they did live here they kept **** neat and tidy - they kept the bushes groomed, the grass watered, and Ethan was pretty handy with a hammer and nails. It's not possible that the Others would live here without de-Dharmatizing the barracks, especially considering It would get a little creepy living somewhere surrounded by photos of people you mass murdered with poison gas. So what does it all mean?

It means of course, that something's changed. Someone has changed something in the past to create the timeline Sun and Frank are now seeing. This jives well with the original transmission still coming from the radio tower, and on a more extensive level it explains the subtle changes in scenery, decor, and circumstance that we've seen throughout the whole show. Faraday's theory appears to be wrong: things can be changed. The bigger question is this: were they changed for the better?

Was the purge avoided? If so, what happened to Dharma? What happened to the Others? Is the whole island dead? Is the whole world dead? Was the war Widmore predicted already waged? If so, did the right side win? And if something really terrible did come to pass, how can Sun, Frank, Ben and Locke fix it? Or is it up to the 815 crew to make those changes from their position in the past? BIG questions.

The Others deserted the Dharma encampment in 2004. We have no idea what has happened on the island and within their encampment from 2004 to 2007. Maybe there was an earthquake on the island or a volcano erupted. And really, there is no way to know if the Others even used the welcome center once they took over. It could have been neglected for a lot longer than 3 years.

Anyway, onto another subject, so why didn't Locke go with the rest of the gang, back to 1977? What is it about Locke and Sun and Ben that prevented them from going back???

 

[chicagoshannon]

This is his last comment on the changing of time theroy:

Uh Oh!
It certainly looks as if things *have* changed. From the moment Sun and Faraday walk past the rusted lamps on the rundown Dharma dock to minute they arrive at the overly ramshackle barracks... something's way, way off. This isn't the way the Others left the barracks not-so-long ago, and it's definitely not the result of a few short years of neglect. Big trees grow way too close to the buildings, and everything looks extremely beat up. As Christian takes them inside the recruitment center, we see printed signs hanging at odd angles and the dust-covered photographs and recruitment materials used by the Dharma Initiative. We saw this place 10 minutes ago in 1977, and now we see it 30 years later... only it can't look this way because after the purge we know the Others lived here for a good decade or more. And when they did live here they kept **** neat and tidy - they kept the bushes groomed, the grass watered, and Ethan was pretty handy with a hammer and nails. It's not possible that the Others would live here without de-Dharmatizing the barracks, especially considering It would get a little creepy living somewhere surrounded by photos of people you mass murdered with poison gas. So what does it all mean?

It means of course, that something's changed. Someone has changed something in the past to create the timeline Sun and Frank are now seeing. This jives well with the original transmission still coming from the radio tower, and on a more extensive level it explains the subtle changes in scenery, decor, and circumstance that we've seen throughout the whole show. Faraday's theory appears to be wrong: things can be changed. The bigger question is this: were they changed for the better?

Was the purge avoided? If so, what happened to Dharma? What happened to the Others? Is the whole island dead? Is the whole world dead? Was the war Widmore predicted already waged? If so, did the right side win? And if something really terrible did come to pass, how can Sun, Frank, Ben and Locke fix it? Or is it up to the 815 crew to make those changes from their position in the past? BIG questions.

I was just going to post something like this. The other's were living in those baracks and there were NO Dharma signs left up BUT last night when Sun and Frank were there, there were Dharma signs and other things all over the place. Something in the past changed.

Even if the place had just deteriorated in the last 3 years the signs would NOT be there.

 

[wdhinn89]

I was just going to post something like this. The other's were living in those baracks and there were NO Dharma signs left up BUT last night when Sun and Frank were there, there were Dharma signs and other things all over the place. Something in the past changed.

Even if the place had just deteriorated in the last 3 years the signs would NOT be there.

I don't think the Dharma signs were on the baraks where the Dharma people or the Others lived previously. The building we saw the signs on was the Welcome Center where the new Dharma recruits were screened after they came off the sub. The Others many not have used this building once they took over.

 

[Disney-Kim]

You've all got my head spinning. My understanding of time travel always deepens and grows until finally my thoughts blow up into nothingness.

But it did lead me to a thought. First I was thinking that Sun didn't go to the main island so they could make us wait longer for the reunion with her husband.

But now I'm thinking maybe Ben didn't go becasue he is already on the island as a kid, and how about Sun being instructional video guy's daughter? So she is already there too as a child, and that's why she could not appear there.

I figured the instruction guy (asian dr) is Charlotte's faterh. She was born there and and she was speaking Korean when she died. so that was my automoatic assumption.

 

[wdhinn89]

I don't think we do. I don't recall any reference to the baby's gender in that episode.

I do NOT read spoilers and I thought that the baby was a boy. So I was thinking it was something on the show itself.

Maybe not, maybe I time travelled from the future and told myself it was a boy.

I checked around other sites and it was determined the baby was a boy because when Candle was taping the video, we hear a baby cry in the back ground and he says Laura (Lara) take him outside. I don't have the episode taped to confirm but this is supposedly how it was determined the baby was a boy.

 

[caribear]

I think the reason that Locke did not go back to 1977 is because he is now the leader of the others in present time....so he has to stay and lead them. As far as Sun goes......Locke never went to her and asked her to go back because of his promise to Jin....he only visited Sayid, Hurley, Jack and Kate and those are the 4 that returned to 1977 Dharma. I'm curious to see if Ben knows that he is in a different time than Sayid, Hurley, Jack and Kate.....

 

[brerrabbit]

I don't think the Dharma signs were on the baraks where the Dharma people or the Others lived previously. The building we saw the signs on was the Welcome Center where the new Dharma recruits were screened after they came off the sub. The Others many not have used this building once they took over.

The Welcome Center was the rec room they had Kate locked in when her, Sayid, and Lock went to find Jack at the compound after Jack performed surgery on Ben. So yes the Others used it.

 

[ryan840]

It doesn't explain the Dharma signs being up so this probably cancels what I'm about to say out, but don't forget that Keamy and his boys pretty much blew the Others compound away last season. I didn't actually notice any Dharma signs when Sun and Frank arrived so I just assumed that was why it was so run down.

 

[kgle]

I figured the instruction guy (asian dr) is Charlotte's faterh. She was born there and and she was speaking Korean when she died. so that was my automoatic assumption.

Yeah I think the baby is clearly part Asian and Charlotte definitely isn't. She looks like she has an Irish complexion.


This show really is making my freakin head spin! All this time travel talk...

 

[debraW76]

I checked around other sites and it was determined the baby was a boy because when Candle was taping the video, we hear a baby cry in the back ground and he says Laura (Lara) take him outside. I don't have the episode taped to confirm but this is supposedly how it was determined the baby was a boy.

Thank you I thought I was going crazy?

Yeah I think the baby is clearly part Asian and Charlotte definitely isn't. She looks like she has an Irish complexion.


This show really is making my freakin head spin! All this time travel talk...

I agree. Charlotte doesn't appear to have a drop of Asian in her. I dont think her knowing Korean is vital to the story line. She was well educated so she probably knew several languages. Also she was an archaeologist so her career caused her to travel to specific places and she probably learned as part of her job.

Do we know if Chang is Korean or Chinese? I hope this doesn't sound prejudice, but I can't tell.

 

[harleyquinn]

At least one of the guys that write about Lost seems to believe that things can change with time travel in the show and offers this challenge:

Whatever Happened, Happened... Sort of
Now would be a great time for the vehement "nothing that already happened can be changed!" movement to explain why the original Dharma radio transmission is playing on the co-pilot's radio as he attempts his mayday call. Especially since Rousseau had changed the message in the mid-80's and had actually turned the message off about two seasons ago. Following the one time string theory, hearing that message in 2007 would be an impossibility.

This is his last comment on the changing of time theroy:

Uh Oh!
It certainly looks as if things *have* changed. From the moment Sun and Faraday walk past the rusted lamps on the rundown Dharma dock to minute they arrive at the overly ramshackle barracks... something's way, way off. This isn't the way the Others left the barracks not-so-long ago, and it's definitely not the result of a few short years of neglect. Big trees grow way too close to the buildings, and everything looks extremely beat up. As Christian takes them inside the recruitment center, we see printed signs hanging at odd angles and the dust-covered photographs and recruitment materials used by the Dharma Initiative. We saw this place 10 minutes ago in 1977, and now we see it 30 years later... only it can't look this way because after the purge we know the Others lived here for a good decade or more. And when they did live here they kept **** neat and tidy - they kept the bushes groomed, the grass watered, and Ethan was pretty handy with a hammer and nails. It's not possible that the Others would live here without de-Dharmatizing the barracks, especially considering It would get a little creepy living somewhere surrounded by photos of people you mass murdered with poison gas. So what does it all mean?

It means of course, that something's changed. Someone has changed something in the past to create the timeline Sun and Frank are now seeing. This jives well with the original transmission still coming from the radio tower, and on a more extensive level it explains the subtle changes in scenery, decor, and circumstance that we've seen throughout the whole show. Faraday's theory appears to be wrong: things can be changed. The bigger question is this: were they changed for the better?

Was the purge avoided? If so, what happened to Dharma? What happened to the Others? Is the whole island dead? Is the whole world dead? Was the war Widmore predicted already waged? If so, did the right side win? And if something really terrible did come to pass, how can Sun, Frank, Ben and Locke fix it? Or is it up to the 815 crew to make those changes from their position in the past? BIG questions.

Who is this guy? Links?

I'm sorry, but these issues can be explained with the Lost time travel rules as we know them. If nothing else Desmond can step in and actually alter things (if that's something he can actually do).

It has been 3 years since we last saw that section of the island...a lot can change in 3 years.

I am interested in the What Ever Happened, Happend episode. I think it's either going to completely destroy Daniel's time rules or solidfy them.

I've never said that the writers had to stick to their own rules--just that til this point, they seem to be completely following them.