The Marvels

[fatmanatee]

Yeah was going to say they really need to address the budgets - but I cut it out as the post was getting too long.

Guardians 3 had a respectable Box office, but was it profitable after the theaters got their cut and the marketing budget etc... and was it worth the risk of $250m+ to make what could be a small profit. IDK Not sure the real numbers are all that easy to determine with magical Hollywood accounting.

Disney had spent over a decade making movies that cost 200 million dollars with big stars and a ton of CGI and reliably getting excellent returns on those investments. I know there’s a lot of talk about how dumb it is for them to spend so much money making movies but it sometimes feels like a goofy discussion to have. There was a very good reason that they could get away with it! They had an insane run for awhile. And now that these movies aren’t doing as well they probably won’t be able to get away with this any longer, so they’ll have to figure it out.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Disney had spent over a decade making movies that cost 200 million dollars with big stars and a ton of CGI and reliably getting excellent returns on those investments. I know there’s a lot of talk about how dumb it is for them to spend so much money making movies but it sometimes feels like a goofy discussion to have. There was a very good reason that they could get away with it! They had an insane run for awhile. And now that these movies aren’t doing as well they probably won’t be able to get away with this any longer, so they’ll have to figure it out.

Yeah. And most of the movies that were in development or some that are in development were started under that philosophy of the past. It’s going to be at least a year+ before those budget changes start to show up more consistently.

 

[fatmanatee]

Yeah. And most of the movies that were in development or some that are in development were started under that philosophy of the past. It’s going to be at least a year+ before those budget changes start to show up more consistently.

Yep, Guardians 3 had been in the works for several years and faced a few hiccups. Marvels started production before covid hit, was delayed at least twice. Indy 5 (another movie that’s faced criticism over its budget) was first announced in 2016! Meanwhile, I lost count of all the future Marvel movies that are on the plate but there’s been no indication that it’s been smooth sailing for the next group up.

Oh, and the strikes? Those don’t help.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Brutal second week drop for the Marvels. Almost impossible for this movie not to lose hundreds of millions for Disney at this point.

Iger needs to figure it out!

 

[BrianL]

Yeah was going to say they really need to address the budgets - but I cut it out as the post was getting too long.

Guardians 3 had a respectable Box office, but was it profitable after the theaters got their cut and the marketing budget etc... and was it worth the risk of $250m+ to make what could be a small profit. IDK Not sure the real numbers are all that easy to determine with magical Hollywood accounting.

This is a good point. The box-office analysts often talk about a movie making profit at X point, and while it may be true, tehre is more to movie financing than that. If you ask me to give you $100 and tell me that next Friday you will give me back $200, but when the time comes, you can only give me $150? Sure, I didn't lose anything, and I made fifty bucks, but, I also might not be that happy since I was expecting to make a hundred!

 

[tony67]

Brutal second week drop for the Marvels. Almost impossible for this movie not to lose hundreds of millions for Disney at this point.

Iger needs to figure it out!

Tied with Thanksgiving - wow. I want to see that but its a wait for streaming movie for me.

Have to assume it may be out of Iger's hands soon, but who knows. KK was been rumored to be gone for years and she is still there. Still with the investors unhappy with him something has to give.

Just to be fair seems like the box office was pretty weak overall this weekend not that I follow box office all that closely other than big ones that may affect investments.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Just to be fair seems like the box office was pretty weak overall this weekend not that I follow box office all that closely other than big ones that may affect investments.

Annual box office is still trending around 30% behind 2019. Has yet to bounce back in a post Covid world.

 

[tony67]

Annual box office is still trending around 30% behind 2019. Has yet to bounce back in a post Covid world.

Yeah - just with several movies that I think were expected to do well, even in a post covid market, they seem to have underperformed.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Yeah - just with several movies that I think were expected to do well, even in a post covid market, they seem to have underperformed.

Yeah instead of doing okay to making a slight profit they fall flat. Streaming and Covid turned what was a slow downward trend to a new norm of lows.

The big thing that Disney and the other legacy media types did to themselves was yanking all of the licensing agreements out as they launched their services. Warner and Paramount are starting to change that by putting some of their more popular content elsewhere again. Cut out a big piece of their revenues

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Yeah - just with several movies that I think were expected to do well, even in a post covid market, they seem to have underperformed.

It’s just much tougher now, you have to have something that the audience really wants to see. They are still out there see Barbie, Oppenheimer, and Super Mario. However, there are just much fewer of those big hits now.

Budgets must be gotten under control and they must make movies with mass appeal across all sectors of society.

 

[BrianL]

It’s just much tougher now, you have to have something that the audience really wants to see. They are still out there see Barbie, Oppenheimer, and Super Mario. However, they are much fewer of those big hits now.

Budgets must be gotten under control and they must make movies with mass appeal across all sectors of society.

Yeah, but it's tough to know what will have mass appeal. It's always been tricky, but most big studio movies do think they are going to have that appeal. A couple of years ago, The Marvels would be a smash-hit - it has everything that movie goers were turning out to see. Now they are not, but it's hard to adjust when the lead times are so long. I might even posit that something like Barbie, if released a few years back, might not have really hit. Being the right thing at the right time is the key, but that's incredibly difficult to do.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Let’s see how well Deadpool with Wolverine does before we declare the MCU is dead. If it flops and loses $300M like The Marvels is on pace to do, then I think you can declare it over for the MCU.

Captain Marvel was perfectly sandwiched between the two biggest Marvel movies ever. Also marketed was required for understanding End Game. I am not sure demand was as real as you think for the Captain Marvel saga.

 

[BrianL]

Let’s see how well Deadpool with Wolverine does before we declare the MCU is dead. If it flops and loses $300M like The Marvels is on pace to do, then I think you can declare it over for the MCU.

Captain Marvel was perfectly sandwiched between the two biggest Marvel movies ever. Also marketed was required for understanding End Game. I am not sure demand was as real as you think for the Captain Marvel saga.

But Captain Marvel was a by-the-numbers MCU movie, and people were turning out for those. The character didn't seem to matter so much as long is it was tied into Avengers. Certianly closing of the Infinity Saga has had an impact, but that's exactly what causes changing tastes. The Marvels is also a pretty standard MCU project - and it's good - it's just that people aren't engaged with that kind of thing anymore, at least not to the extent that they were a couple of years ago.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

But Captain Marvel was a by-the-numbers MCU movie, and people were turning out for those. The character didn't seem to matter so much as long is it was tied into Avengers. Certianly closing of the Infinity Saga has had an impact, but that's exactly what causes changing tastes. The Marvels is also a pretty standard MCU project - and it's good - it's just that people aren't engaged with that kind of thing anymore, at least not to the extent that they were a couple of years ago.

Like I said that is very logical. However, let’s see if Deadpool with Wolverine continues this trend of no one being interested in a standard MCU movie. If it bombs too, then I will concede you are 100% correct.

 

[BrianL]

Like I said that is very logical. However, let’s see if Deadpool with Wolverine continues this trend of no one being interested in a standard MCU movie. If it bombs too, then I will concede you are 100% correct.

Well, Deadpool is a bit different form your standard MCU fare, with the biggest difference being the R Rating. It hits a slightly different audience. There may be an issue though with the six-year gap between movies. It's hard to say what it will do. Wolverine may be a boost, but then again, when was the last good X-Men move (or anything for that matte)?

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Wolverine is still a very popular character imho. Although I agree X men movies have been hit or Miss. I thought Logan was very well done.

 

[mdmost]

I really enjoyed the Marvels but I'm the target audience for this. Disney+ subscriber who watches all the MCU shows. Enjoyed WandaVision and Ms. Marvel. The movie was targeted to people like me...and that's the problem. I feel this movie isn't one that casual fans were really interested in. They didn't know who Kamala was or who Monica was so it's not going to excite them to come out to pay $60+. If this had been a straight Captain Marvel sequel where she's off on her own then maybe it's a different result but I'm not sure any longer. I don't know but the further away from this movie I am the more it just fits as a Disney+ movie and not a MCU movie going experience. I think this is MCU's biggest problem now. So many people will just wait to watch this after it hits Disney+ because it's not worth the massive investment to go see it in the theaters. I think the total box office returns are showing that people just aren't going to movies as much, especially for Disney movies. If Wish doesn't do well, I think that will be the final sign that Disney+ has totally demolished the theatrical environment for Disney movies and they have got to figure out how to change that. Sequels alone aren't going to cut it.

I think Deadpool 3 is going to do really well because it's not something most are going to think is a soon to be on Disney+ option. People enjoy Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman in those roles. It's like having another Toy Story movie when it's not really needed. It's fun, it's raunchy, it takes risks. It's definitely unsafe and smart.

As far as stand alone characters, post Endgame, maybe we've finally reached the end of the superhero era. Honestly, Endgame cannot be topped no matter what Marvel tries to come up with. Not just because of the heroes it involved but the singular performances of the actors who portrayed them. Spiderman will continue to do well because it's a character like Batman with such immense popularity that people will keep coming back to see the new version. Multiple versions of Peter Parker and now Miles Morales bears that out. Looking at the future MCU slate, I don't really see anything that's going to blow people away. Are people coming out in droves for Sam's version of Captain America? A movie that will be MCU's Suicide Squad? A new version of Blade though I'm not convinced this one even is made. I think Marvel needs to tighten up and bring it back to quality storytelling. The multiverse isn't going to cut it.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I really enjoyed the Marvels but I'm the target audience for this. Disney+ subscriber who watches all the MCU shows. Enjoyed WandaVision and Ms. Marvel. The movie was targeted to people like me...and that's the problem. I feel this movie isn't one that casual fans were really interested in. They didn't know who Kamala was or who Monica was so it's not going to excite them to come out to pay $60+. If this had been a straight Captain Marvel sequel where she's off on her own then maybe it's a different result but I'm not sure any longer. I don't know but the further away from this movie I am the more it just fits as a Disney+ movie and not a MCU movie going experience. I think this is MCU's biggest problem now. So many people will just wait to watch this after it hits Disney+ because it's not worth the massive investment to go see it in the theaters. I think the total box office returns are showing that people just aren't going to movies as much, especially for Disney movies. If Wish doesn't do well, I think that will be the final sign that Disney+ has totally demolished the theatrical environment for Disney movies and they have got to figure out how to change that. Sequels alone aren't going to cut it.

I think Deadpool 3 is going to do really well because it's not something most are going to think is a soon to be on Disney+ option. People enjoy Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman in those roles. It's like having another Toy Story movie when it's not really needed. It's fun, it's raunchy, it takes risks. It's definitely unsafe and smart.

As far as stand alone characters, post Endgame, maybe we've finally reached the end of the superhero era. Honestly, Endgame cannot be topped no matter what Marvel tries to come up with. Not just because of the heroes it involved but the singular performances of the actors who portrayed them. Spiderman will continue to do well because it's a character like Batman with such immense popularity that people will keep coming back to see the new version. Multiple versions of Peter Parker and now Miles Morales bears that out. Looking at the future MCU slate, I don't really see anything that's going to blow people away. Are people coming out in droves for Sam's version of Captain America? A movie that will be MCU's Suicide Squad? A new version of Blade though I'm not convinced this one even is made. I think Marvel needs to tighten up and bring it back to quality storytelling. The multiverse isn't going to cut it.

Spot on here in my opinion.

 

[Evinrude21]

Sad, it’s a good movie that deserves better

songbirds and snakes made the same amount over opening weekend and is being touted as a success. Funny to see the difference in both

I saw both on opening night and do think songbirds is a better movie

 

[BrianL]

Sad, it’s a good movie that deserves better

songbirds and snakes made the same amount over opening weekend and is being touted as a success. Funny to see the difference in both

I saw both on opening night and do think songbirds is a better movie

The difference is the budget - The Marvels cost almost twice as much!