The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[Fitswimmer]

Doubt it! Especially since they are "neck in neck"!

I expect full out assualts, from both sides, to come.

That only helps McCain, so I hope they think it through.

 

[DISUNC]

That only helps McCain, so I hope they think it through.

I really dont know, we will see.

 

[wvrevy]

1 - I will vote for Hillary if she is the party nominee. She's not my preference, but better her than a sellout like McCain or a nutjob like Huckabee.

2 - "Religious overtones" to Barack's campaign? Umm...huh?

3 - People need to remember something: There is more to being a leader than being a policy wonk. By that, I mean you can have the best ideas in the world, but if nobody is willing to follow you, it won't matter. That doesn't mean Barack doesn't have sound policy behind him. What it means is that, based on pure leadership ability, I don't think we've had a presidential candidate of his caliber since Bobby Kennedy. The man simply inspires people to want to follow him. I'm sorry, but I don't see how that can be a bad thing. Yes, there has to be something more behind that inspiration, but my point is that there IS.

As for the "spin" comment...please. When Bill is making comments about Jesse Jackson winning South Carolina, you don't get to complain about another candidate and spin.

 

[Laura]

Barack Obama is likely to get the delegate lead: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8358.html

Looks like just a few delegates will separate them. A dead heat, really.

 

[Crankyshank]

I wonder if there are lots of Clinton supporters in the baby boom generation like your mom. And they make up a large percentage of voters. I know my dad supports Clinton, which surprised me a bit since he's not exactly a feminist. If it comes down to Obama and McCain, I could see him voting for McCain or just not voting at all.

Then, on the other side of the coin, you have those 'Clinton Haters' who just can't vote for her because they "have never liked her." It's lame, but there are lots of people like that.

My parents are both baby boomers and both Clinton supporters. Most of their friends are huge Clinton supporters (a lot of them are extremely liberal). They voteed in the MA primary yesterday. My Mother was swayed when I took her to see Hillary here in Providence last year, but she was always a Clinton fan. She despises Obama because of his church, because she feels he believes in furthering the need of the African Americans first (don't ask me where she got that idea), and because of Oprah's support (but yet she dvrs Oprah every day). She's an enigma, my Mother.

My Father was pretty ambivalent towards Hillary, and isn't much of a feminist, but voted for her because he felt she came across as more Presidential than Obama and felt her diplomacy skills were better. He's ok with supporting Obama if he gets the nod.

 

[crcormier]

Barack Obama is likely to get the delegate lead: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8358.html

Looks like just a few delegates will separate them. A dead heat, really.

Interesting comment on that page:

It drives me nuts that the TV networks colored in Florida and Michigan for Clinton. Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan -- and Clinton shouldn't have been there either. She won simply because she didn't play by the rules. In Florida, where candidates didn't campaign, it was clear that a front runner with name recognition was going to win. If Clinton wins the nomination without Florida and Michigan, I'm happy to support her. But, if she loses to Obama without them but wins with them, and party bosses are convinced to have them count, I fear anarchy in the Democratic Party. We'd all better hope one of the two wins without Florida and Michigan.

I think both candidates are great. I no-one does anything to screw it up!

 

[wvrevy]

Barack Obama is likely to get the delegate lead: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8358.html

Looks like just a few delegates will separate them. A dead heat, really.

If that's accurate, Hillary's in more trouble than I thought.

 

[lilyv]

1 - I will vote for Hillary if she is the party nominee. She's not my preference, but better her than a sellout like McCain or a nutjob like Huckabee.

2 - "Religious overtones" to Barack's campaign? Umm...huh?

3 - People need to remember something: There is more to being a leader than being a policy wonk. By that, I mean you can have the best ideas in the world, but if nobody is willing to follow you, it won't matter. That doesn't mean Barack doesn't have sound policy behind him. What it means is that, based on pure leadership ability, I don't think we've had a presidential candidate of his caliber since Bobby Kennedy. The man simply inspires people to want to follow him. I'm sorry, but I don't see how that can be a bad thing. Yes, there has to be something more behind that inspiration, but my point is that there IS.

As for the "spin" comment...please. When Bill is making comments about Jesse Jackson winning South Carolina, you don't get to complain about another candidate and spin.

WVRev, Can I just say you're the best? Thanks for your post.

I'm never quite sure when the "religious" comments about Barack come up if they are unpleasant, veiled references to African-American churches. If they are, that's so sad. I hope that's not the intent. But, I can't see any other reason to say such things.

I watched the entire video of Bill making his Jesse Jackson comments. It wasn't taken out of context. Those comments were just shockingly ugly to me. I know Hillary has said she'll control Bill, and I guess we'll just have to take her at her word.

See below for Hillary's control promise-given in an interview with Cynthia McFadden:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=4225484&page=1

And yes, I think it's also sad that a respected, former sitting American President has been reduced to needing to be controlled. My hope is that he's learned a lot in these past weeks.

 

[profdsny]

Different topic, sort of. I am so sick of all the whiners about "I don't want MY taxes raised.blah blah blah". EXCUSE ME? Why is it the ones who cry the most about it, and supposed 'pork' are the ones that still think the Iraq war, at a cost of a kazilloon dollars, is still such a great idea? We can spend 1 billion bucks to kill some innocent sheep farmer and his family, but gods forbid we give any money for health or education to needy people in our country. Maybe, the poor can get together and declare a war against the US, then they can get benefits. Seems to me the biggest pork project we've had in decades is the 'war', and these folks think it's a bar-b-que. I can't stand it!

 

[JennyMominRI]

My parents are both baby boomers and both Clinton supporters. Most of their friends are huge Clinton supporters (a lot of them are extremely liberal). They voteed in the MA primary yesterday. My Mother was swayed when I took her to see Hillary here in Providence last year, but she was always a Clinton fan. She despises Obama because of his church, because she feels he believes in furthering the need of the African Americans first (don't ask me where she got that idea), and because of Oprah's support (but yet she dvrs Oprah every day). She's an enigma, my Mother.

My Father was pretty ambivalent towards Hillary, and isn't much of a feminist, but voted for her because he felt she came across as more Presidential than Obama and felt her diplomacy skills were better. He's ok with supporting Obama if he gets the nod.

My mother wil NOT vote for Clinton...Aside of 2004 she has always voted Deocrat or Independant(Anderson way back when)...She will vote for McCain over Hillary

 

[Fitswimmer]

Different topic, sort of. I am so sick of all the whiners about "I don't want MY taxes raised.blah blah blah". EXCUSE ME? Why is it the ones who cry the most about it, and supposed 'pork' are the ones that still think the Iraq war, at a cost of a kazilloon dollars, is still such a great idea? We can spend 1 billion bucks to kill some innocent sheep farmer and his family, but gods forbid we give any money for health or education to needy people in our country. Maybe, the poor can get together and declare a war against the US, then they can get benefits. Seems to me the biggest pork project we've had in decades is the 'war', and these folks think it's a bar-b-que. I can't stand it!

That's because they aren't paying for the war-that's all gone on the National MasterCard and the kiddos will be paying for it. If their taxes had been increased in order to pay for George's adventure in Iraq, we would have heard a LOT more yelling.

 

[wvrevy]

WVRev, Can I just say you're the best? Thanks for your post.

I'm never quite sure when the "religious" comments about Barack come up if they are unpleasant, veiled references to African-American churches. If they are, that's so sad. I hope that's not the intent. But, I can't see any other reason to say such things.

I watched the entire video of Bill making his Jesse Jackson comments. It wasn't taken out of context. Those comments were just shockingly ugly to me. I know Hillary has said she'll control Bill, and I guess we'll just have to take her at her word.

See below for Hillary's control promise-given in an interview with Cynthia McFadden:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=4225484&page=1

And yes, I think it's also sad that a respected, former sitting American President has been reduced to needing to be controlled. My hope is that he's learned a lot in these past weeks.

Why, thank you. I think a few on the other side of the aisle might disagree with you, though.

As for the religious comments...yes, sadly, I think that's exactly what it is. Barack has the same style of speech as Martin Luther King and many other black religious leaders. I happen to think that style fits him very well (it doesn't work for everyone), and I'm about as non-religious as you can get. Other than saying he's a christian, he hasn't spoken about religion much at all (which is as it should be, btw), so that's the only thing it could be when people talk about religious "overtones" to his campaign.

 

[DISUNC]

2 - "Religious overtones" to Barack's campaign? Umm...huh?

.

Let me 'splain

His 'uplifting' speaches. To me its just what any Spiritual leader says on Sunday morning. And that is fine for Sunday morning preaches, but for a Presdient???? I rather just deal with facts.

Even someone has his "bumper sticker" on this thread in their sig (not sure who...sorry..page 6 post 80..) with Obama in the sky with clouds. Just smack a pic of Jesus in there and you are good to go.

The whole Oprah 'He is the ONE"! Scared the heck outta me.

I honestly just hear good old revival meetings talk when he speaks. To me that is hokey. My thoughts are people may be looking for a messiah (new or returned) and not a President.

 

[eclectics]

That's because they aren't paying for the war-that's all gone on the National MasterCard and the kiddos will be paying for it. If their taxes had been increased in order to pay for George's adventure in Iraq, we would have heard a LOT more yelling.

Ain't that the truth! If you're okay with dumping Trillions into the defense budget, then you should be okay with new taxes to pay for it. They claim to be all about family values. I suppose saddling your children with debt is a new "value" I must have missed.

 

[eclectics]

Let me 'splain

His 'uplifting' speaches. To me its just what any Spiritual leader says on Sunday morning. And that is fine for Sunday morning preaches, but for a Presdient???? I rather just deal with facts.

Even someone has his "bumper sticker" on this thread in their sig (not sure who...sorry) with Obama in the sky with clouds. Just smack a pic of Jesus in there and you are good to go.

The whole Oprah 'He is the ONE"! Scared the heck outta me.

I honestly just hear good old revival meetings talk when he speaks. To me that is hokey. My thoughts are people may be looking for a messiah (new or returned) and not a President.

Hillary does the "Hitch Your Wagon To A Star" speech pretty good herself.

 

[DISUNC]

I'm never quite sure when the "religious" comments about Barack come up if they are unpleasant, veiled references to African-American churches. If they are, that's so sad. I hope that's not the intent. But, I can't see any other reason to say such things.
.

Nope. I am just big on seperating Church & State. And when I hear any politian speak as if it is a church meeting I am automatically turned off.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Hillary does the "Hitch Your Wagon To A Star" speech pretty good herself.

They both do-if you're going to get people to vote for you-you have GOT to inspire them. That "old time revivalist" style works-it gets people excited. I don't know how it is in other countries, but in the US that kind of speaking has been part of politics for a LONG time.

 

[lilyv]

Nope. I am just big on separating Church & State. And when I hear any politician speak as if it is a church meeting I am automatically turned off.

I guess I don't see the problem. I listen to hear his words.

Lots of us are big on separation of church and state. Nothing unique about that.

 

[DISUNC]

Hillary does the "Hitch Your Wagon To A Star" speech pretty good herself.

Oh yeah I heard that too. But that is not the 'norm" for Hillary.

My real BIG issue between the both is still the Health Care issue. Hers I like ALOT, his is really bad and undoable.
My secondary issue with him (as I stated here many times) is the whole disregard the Lobbist issues. I dont think all Lobbys are evil or controlling. There a GREAT lobbys, and there are Bad lobby's. He may be throwing out the Baby with the bath water.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I honestly just hear good old revival meetings talk when he speaks. To me that is hokey. My thoughts are people may be looking for a messiah (new or returned) and not a President.

Dude, what do you expect? I'm Jewish



I kid though...
I have grave fears about Hillary becoming President.
I think they both have similar views
I like Obama more..