The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hey, now you know how some people feel about Clinton. It's hard to vote for someone you don't respect and it's almost an insurmountable hurdle for any candidate to overcome.

She cant be to hated she got 100,000 more votes last night than Obama did...:confused3 he got more states but she got more votes due to the larger states....

Besides I like her and doesnt that count for something:goodvibes
 
I like both and I'm also willing to criticize both, when needed. I'll vote for whoever my party deems the winner. For those who won't...please consider the alternative and what the SC would look like if we don't stand together!
 
Bolding - my emphasis

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS and ANDREW TAYLOR


WASHINGTON (AP) - Senate Republicans blocked a move by Democrats on Wednesday to add more than $40 billion in checks for the elderly, disabled veterans and the unemployed to a bill to stimulate the economy.

The 58-41 vote fell just short of the 60 required to break a GOP filibuster and bring the Senate version of the stimulus bill closer to a final vote. The Senate measure was backed by Democrats and a handful of Republicans but was strongly opposed by GOP leaders and President Bush, who objected to the costly add-ons.

The vote left the $205 billion Senate stimulus bill in limbo and capped days of partisan infighting and procedural jockeying over the measure. Democratic presidential candidates Hillary Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois flew to Washington for the vote. GOP front-runner John McCain of Arizona did not vote.

Supporters actually had 59 votes in favor of the Democratic proposal, but Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada switched his vote to 'no' at the last moment, a parliamentary move that allows him to bring the measure up for revote.

Republican leaders objected to add-ons such as a $14.5 billion unemployment extension for those whose benefits have run out, $1 billion in heating aid for the poor and tax breaks for renewable energy producers and coal companies.

The measure builds upon a less costly $161 billion House-passed bill providing $600-$1,200 checks to most taxpayers and tax breaks to businesses investing in new plants and equipment.

The Senate version would provide checks of $500-$1,000 to a broader group that includes 20 million older Americans, 250,000 disabled veterans and taxpayers making up to $150,000 for singles - or $300,000 for couples.

Reid denied Republicans an opportunity to offer changes to the measure, provoking the filibuster. The calculus was that enough Republicans would relent in the face of political pressure to vote for unemployment insurance and heating aid to join with Democrats to force the measure through.

"Our constituents will look at us as the folks that slowed it down, (and) added a bunch of spending to it," said Sen. Jon S. Kyl of Arizona, the Republican whip, who called the measure "a Christmas tree package."

GOP leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said he wants to amend the measure to add the provisions favoring disabled veterans and the elderly and making clear that illegal immigrants can't get rebate checks.

Reid rejected the offer - at least for the time being - but Republicans seemed confident he would eventually agree to comparable changes since the alternative would be to approve the House bill and leave retirees living on Social Security and disabled veterans without rebate checks.

The dramatic vote came after an intense lobbying effort by Democrats to convert wavering Republicans, including several facing tough re-election fights. Their efforts were getting a boost from outside groups leaning on senators to back the package, including home builders, manufacturers and the powerful seniors lobby.

GOP leaders, working to stem defections, were assuring Republicans that they would have another chance to support adding senior citizens and disabled veterans to the aid plan even if they opposed the Democrats' bill.

That wasn't enough for Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M. who threw his support behind the measure during a brief floor debate.

"I made my decision on what was best for New Mexico and what's best for America," he said.

But other targets, such as Sen. John Sununu, R-N.H., stuck with McConnell.

Asked Tuesday whether the administration would accept adding rebates for the elderly and disabled veterans to the stimulus measure, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson declined to say definitively, but he told the Finance Committee, "I'm sure we'll be able to work something out and get something quickly done that's broad-based."

The dispute has slowed down the stimulus measure, but there's no indication that it will delay rebate checks, which are expected to begin arriving in May. The rebates will be based on 2007 tax returns, which aren't due until April 15.
 
But how can that be? It's the Democrats who don't get anything done, right? I can't wait to hear the conservative spin on this one!
 

I got the standard 'Send us more money' from the democratic party. I sent a response saying I would IF they would guarantee me that Florida and Michigan's delegates WOULD NOT be allowed to count. Senator Clinton can't go back after agreeing NOT to campaign there (as did the other Democrats) and then change her mind and want them counted since she needs the delegates. Sorry, Hillary, that's NOT playing fair and I'm not having any part of it. :headache:
 
[QUOTE="Got Disney";23039692]also Hillary has 823 to 741 of Obamas delegates and she won the popular vote by more than 100,000 last night so why would she bow out:confused3[/QUOTE]

Hillary has the overall delegate lead because of super delegates - she is the choice of the power in the party.

Obama has been chipping away at that little by little. Last night, I have to say Obama won - he won more delegates and won more states. The fact that a former First Lady who has national name recognition, a husband who is one of the most popular political figures, is facing a possible loss to a freshman Senator from Illinois who was down by 20+ in all but 2 states as little as 2 weeks ago, says a lot about Obama's and Hillary's messages.
 
I got the standard 'Send us more money' from the democratic party. I sent a response saying I would IF they would guarantee me that Florida and Michigan's delegates WOULD NOT be allowed to count. Senator Clinton can't go back after agreeing NOT to campaign there (as did the other Democrats) and then change her mind and want them counted since she needs the delegates. Sorry, Hillary, that's NOT playing fair and I'm not having any part of it. :headache:

I called the DNC and told them I laughed at the thought of giving them any money.
 
I got the standard 'Send us more money' from the democratic party. I sent a response saying I would IF they would guarantee me that Florida and Michigan's delegates WOULD NOT be allowed to count. Senator Clinton can't go back after agreeing NOT to campaign there (as did the other Democrats) and then change her mind and want them counted since she needs the delegates. Sorry, Hillary, that's NOT playing fair and I'm not having any part of it. :headache:

But when did she campaign there? If anything - Obama ran commercials there! They were all on the ballot - and Floridians especially went out in record numbers to vote!

I need to see evidence of this......

Evidentally, the DNC is being deluged by voter calls from FL and MI - asking for their votes to be counted.........
 
But when did she campaign there? If anything - Obama ran commercials there! They were all on the ballot - and Floridians especially went out in record numbers to vote!

I need to see evidence of this......

Evidentally, the DNC is being deluged by voter calls from FL and MI - asking for their votes to be counted.........

Florida was nothing but a popularity contest and Hillary has the name recognition. But actually, he won the vote of those who made up their mind 3 days and sooner to election day. She overwhelmingly won the early vote like in CA.

I will be OUTRAGED if they sit MI and FL - especially MI where she kept her name on the ballot and the fact that 41% of MI Democrats came out just to vote uncommitted says a lot!
 
But when did she campaign there? If anything - Obama ran commercials there! They were all on the ballot - and Floridians especially went out in record numbers to vote!

I need to see evidence of this......

Evidentally, the DNC is being deluged by voter calls from FL and MI - asking for their votes to be counted.........

Does anybody know why, the DNC said they wouldnt count those 2 states???:confused3 I know it was becaused they moved their primaries up....But what does not counting the votes have to do with this?
:confused:
 
Florida was nothing but a popularity contest and Hillary has the name recognition. !
Dude...Thats what Elections are "Popularity Contests"!

:confused3

They are going to HAVE to count all these votes into the equation some where along the line.
 
Dude...Thats what Elections are "Popularity Contests"!

:confused3

They are going to HAVE to count all these votes into the equation some where along the line.

You know what I meant - popularity contest in the sense of national name recognition where voters don't have the chance of a lesser known candidate campaigning.

It is why Hillary and Rudy had huge leads in the national polls before the campaign "really began."

And how do you figure they have to count them? Because you are a Hillary supporter? So, she keeps her name on the ballot in MI (obviously wins) and then the rules are tweaked in her favor? I don't think so. It would cause revolt and a split in the party.
 
Does anybody know why, the DNC said they wouldnt count those 2 states???:confused3 I know it was becaused they moved their primaries up....But what does not counting the votes have to do with this?
:confused:

Because that was their penalty for doing so, they did it anyways....

The whole Michigan/Florida thing is a complete debacle.... Hillary was the only name on th Michigan ballot, and, she was the only one that went, coincidentally the night before Florida's primary for a Fundraising event & her plane's tires landed as soon as the primary was over..... But, regardless, neither could accurately convey their messages, and it's a detriment to both of them.... It shouldn't be counted as all candidates were led to believe that to be the truth.... what's the DNC going to do? Say, OOPS, didn't mean that, all you other candidates (and there were more at that time), but it counts afterall?? Talk about splintering the party....
 
You know what I meant - popularity contest in the sense of national name recognition where voters don't have the chance of a lesser known candidate campaigning.

It is why Hillary and Rudy had huge leads in the national polls before the campaign "really began."

Gotcha!
 
Because that was their penalty for doing so, they did it anyways....

The whole Michigan/Florida thing is a complete debacle.... Hillary was the only name on th Michigan ballot, and, she was the only one that went, coincidentally the night before Florida's primary for a Fundraising event & her plane's tires landed as soon as the primary was over..... But, regardless, neither could accurately convey their messages, and it's a detriment to both of them.... It shouldn't be counted as all candidates were led to believe that to be the truth.... what's the DNC going to do? Say, OOPS, didn't mean that, all you other candidates (and there were more at that time), but it counts afterall?? Talk about splintering the party....

I agree. The DNC shot themselves in the foot by their ruling and are trying to backpedal to fix it, but at the risk of causing a split in the party IMO.
 
Florida was nothing but a popularity contest and Hillary has the name recognition. But actually, he won the vote of those who made up their mind 3 days and sooner to election day. She overwhelmingly won the early vote like in CA.

I will be OUTRAGED if they sit MI and FL - especially MI where she kept her name on the ballot and the fact that 41% of MI Democrats came out just to vote uncommitted says a lot!


I would love someone from Florida or Michigan to chime in here if they can.

I don't see how FL is a popularity contest (aren't all elections popularity contests?)

As for Michigan - I would need to know why Obama or Edwards didn't have the foresight to put their names on the ballot any way.

You would think after the FL fiasco of W's reign - the democratic party would not be in the business of throwing away votes!

The pundits in general couldn't believe how stupid the DNC was with regards to FL.
 
Has the DNC indicated they are considering counting the two states afterall? :confused3
 
Has the DNC indicated they are considering counting the two states afterall? :confused3

It's complete conjecture on everybody's behalf. I think one group or party is trying to get the DNC to change their position, that may be what started the conjecture. The DNC did shoot themselves in the foot, but they must go by their word, otherwise, what is it worth?? Fractured party for sure.
 
Does anybody know why, the DNC said they wouldnt count those 2 states???:confused3 I know it was becaused they moved their primaries up....But what does not counting the votes have to do with this?
:confused:

The DNC passed a set of election rules in 2006, and I think it was voted in unanimously, that if a state changed their election date from the schedule set by the DNC, they'd forfeit half their delegate count to the the national nominating convention and if a candidate campaigned in that state, they'd forfeit all the delegates they won from that state.

Florida decided to move it's primary date knowing this and Clinton campaigned there knowing this. It's not going to be reversed.
 
Florida decided to move it's primary date knowing this and Clinton campaigned there knowing this. It's not going to be reversed.

Explain to me how Clinton campaigned there when it was Obama running ads there?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New Posts


Disney Vacation Planning. Free. Done for You.
Our Authorized Disney Vacation Planners are here to provide personalized, expert advice, answer every question, and uncover the best discounts. Let Dreams Unlimited Travel take care of all the details, so you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a stress-free vacation.
Start Your Disney Vacation
Disney EarMarked Producer






DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Add as a preferred source on Google

Back
Top Bottom