The large number of new Aulani resale contracts??

[ocdb8r1]

Remember, the rules apply to the owners and whether people agree or not, each of us has certain rights that go along with it…and one is the ability to rent points without needing DVCs approval to do so.

And that is the only thing DVC has the right to do.

I don't think this is 100% true. Owners don't have any "inalienable" right to rent their points or their reservations

Regardless, I think it’s actually very clear that Disney has the right to set reasonable limits on renting that it deems to be beneficial to its members. It very clearly cannot ban renting, but it also can regulate it if it chooses to. Sure David’s or the other ones could sue, but I don’t see them doing much but wasting a lot of money doing so. Other timeshare companies have successfully implemented unreasonable rental restrictions, I see no reason Disney couldn’t implement reasonable ones

View attachment 909087

Yes, this is what I recall. They don't even have to be "reasonable" restrictions...DVC has given itself total discretion.

 

[samsp99]

Either way, I hope these points being diffused throughout the market will be a good thing. To me, these products are not supposed to exist for commercial purposes. They are primarily for the enjoyment of members, who, if they don't wish to use their points in a given year, can choose to rent them out.

But corporations are people, and they enjoy making money. s/

The current rules are rarther lax as they revolve around a large number of reservations a year. One could rent out all your points a year and still never hit the limitations.

The resale listings that are now blowing up are mostly for 100-300pt contracts - not big 1000+ point ones. I wonder if they even hit the rental limits as each is from different contracts. If they are under different memberships, Disney may not have realized what is going on.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I got $5 for anyone who buys one of these and tells me who sold it to them.

Joking. I think

 

[Genie+]

When you have 135 confirmed reservations at AKV and a majority in value rooms and you own thousands of points, that’s how it becomes commercial.

And commercial renting is disproportionately grabbing certain room categories. One of many advantages that commercial has is they can grab anything that is good, then seek a match. Owners will only grab stuff that works for them. So one grouop is grabbing anything and everything in certain room categories ASAP. It’s just very different to way personal use pulls from the system. One is never going to pass up taking the available rooms and the other will pass it up because the much lower chance there’s something they can do with it.

 

[Genie+]

Commercial activity will always pull all the cream out. That’s why/how they end up selling 50-90% of a date for AKV value studio - all the time! Disproportionately grabbing them on such a massive scale.

If commercial renting was anywhere under 10% of ownership (which i think it is), and it is taking that many? Something is wrong. And our contracts say this product is not for that - that is what they sold us and is their responsibility to keep in check if/when they find it is at detriment to the membership.

 

[Sandisw]

They already set rules for third-party brokers with no written rights to do so, absolutely no reason they couldn’t do the same thing to the rental companies. It doesn’t matter if they have the right to do it to individual owners, if they don’t target the owners. It would reduce confirmed reservations by 99% if you could do them but couldn’t advertise them.

What rules do they have currently for owners not using brokers to rent their points?

And I say it does target an owner if they put qualifying rules on what reservations we can rent.

Again, the rules for renting revolve around commercial vs personal renting…so still don’t agree that confirmed reservations change the nature of that owners right to rent.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't think this is 100% true. Owners don't have any "inalienable" right to rent their points or their reservations

Yes, this is what I recall. They don't even have to be "reasonable" restrictions...DVC has given itself total discretion.

The contract absolutely gives us the right to rent our ownership interests. It includes the word leasee in the definition of personal use.

DVC has the right to define what makes a membership a commercial one and they do have the right to make those stricter.

And if they want to ban owners from using third parties to advertise, they could try that…but would face a lot of pushback.

However, I don’t think they can decide that a specific type of rental…confirmed vs on demand…changes the nature of that rental. Meaning you could use a broker to advertise to book something but stop me because I already booked it

IMO, since what we rent are reservations and not points, I think it would hard pressed to even attempt to control how we rent.

 

[Sandisw]

When you have 135 confirmed reservations at AKV and a majority in value rooms and you own thousands of points, that’s how it becomes commercial.

But what you are talking about now is quantity. Of course, a membership that has that many would tip the commercial scales.

It’s not the fact they are confirmed though. That is my point.

If I rent one reservation every year, whether it’s confirmed or not, DVC would be very hard pressed to say I am in violation of my contract right to rent.

But let’s get back on track regarding why there appear to be a lot of contracts being sold at Aulani.

 

[pzw90]

But let’s get back on track regarding why there appear to be a lot of contracts being sold at Aulani

Thanks! BLT 5.7m
View attachment 909074

Was bored and needed something mindless to do. So looked at *************************** as it was the easiest to pull everything into excel and looked at # of contracts and # of points. And compared vs numbers by @T00dles

If anything, it looks like the glut of Aulani contracts only brought it in line with outstanding points.
# of contracts at AUL is 179/1089 = 16.44%, of the total points out there ~14.6% its not crazy
When looking at total points 29565/194511 = 15.20% even closer to the 14.6%

Maybe we put down our Aulani pitchforks, and pick up our VB and PVB pitchforks as that seems to have the most contracts for sale and most points over outstanding points ratios. Maybe we also look into those hoarding RIV, SSR, and AKV as those are under represented, what do they know and why aren't they selling?

None of this scientific and I'm sure it could have been done better.

	#of Contracts	% of listings	Point total for sale	% of total pts	T00dles	# of listings % minus Toodles	# of points % minus Toodles
AUL	179​	16.44%​	29565​	15.20%​	14.6%​	1.84%​	0.60%​
HHI	23​	2.11%​	5314​	2.73%​	1.8%​	0.31%​	0.93%​
VB	61​	5.60%​	10626​	5.46%​	2.0%​	3.60%​	3.46%​
AKV	75​	6.89%​	13980​	7.19%​	9.3%​	-2.41%​	-2.11%​
BLT	55​	5.05%​	10462​	5.38%​	7.2%​	-2.15%​	-1.82%​
BCV	34​	3.12%​	7942​	4.08%​	3.8%​	-0.68%​	0.28%​
BWV	68​	6.24%​	14121​	7.26%​	6.2%​	0.04%​	1.06%​
BRV	26​	2.39%​	4787​	2.46%​	2.5%​	-0.11%​	-0.04%​
CCV	49​	4.50%​	7482​	3.85%​	4.2%​	0.30%​	-0.35%​
VGF	52​	4.78%​	7229​	3.72%​	5.7%​	-0.92%​	-1.98%​
OKW	110​	10.10%​	23149​	11.90%​	9.8%​	0.30%​	2.10%​
PVB	125​	11.48%​	15424​	7.93%​	5.1%​	6.38%​	2.83%​
RIV	39​	3.58%​	8640​	4.44%​	8.5%​	-4.92%​	-4.06%​
SSR	161​	14.78%​	29910​	15.38%​	17.8%​	-3.02%​	-2.42%​
VDH	4​	0.37%​	620​	0.32%​		0.37%​	0.32%​
VGC	25​	2.30%​	5260​	2.70%​	1.4%​	0.90%​	1.30%​

 

[JackosinDIS]

Also, could be something simple with AUL, like the fact that the Yen is down almost 30% against the U.S. dollar over the last 5 years. Would be a very good time to sell if Yen is your currency… I understand that AUL was very popular with the Japanese market.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Was bored and needed something mindless to do. So looked at *************************** as it was the easiest to pull everything into excel and looked at # of contracts and # of points. And compared vs numbers by @T00dles

If anything, it looks like the glut of Aulani contracts only brought it in line with outstanding points.
# of contracts at AUL is 179/1089 = 16.44%, of the total points out there ~14.6% its not crazy
When looking at total points 29565/194511 = 15.20% even closer to the 14.6%

Maybe we put down our Aulani pitchforks, and pick up our VB and PVB pitchforks as that seems to have the most contracts for sale and most points over outstanding points ratios. Maybe we also look into those hoarding RIV, SSR, and AKV as those are under represented, what do they know and why aren't they selling?

None of this scientific and I'm sure it could have been done better.

	#of Contracts	% of listings	Point total for sale	% of total pts	T00dles	# of listings % minus Toodles	# of points % minus Toodles
AUL	179​	16.44%​	29565​	15.20%​	14.6%​	1.84%​	0.60%​
HHI	23​	2.11%​	5314​	2.73%​	1.8%​	0.31%​	0.93%​
VB	61​	5.60%​	10626​	5.46%​	2.0%​	3.60%​	3.46%​
AKV	75​	6.89%​	13980​	7.19%​	9.3%​	-2.41%​	-2.11%​
BLT	55​	5.05%​	10462​	5.38%​	7.2%​	-2.15%​	-1.82%​
BCV	34​	3.12%​	7942​	4.08%​	3.8%​	-0.68%​	0.28%​
BWV	68​	6.24%​	14121​	7.26%​	6.2%​	0.04%​	1.06%​
BRV	26​	2.39%​	4787​	2.46%​	2.5%​	-0.11%​	-0.04%​
CCV	49​	4.50%​	7482​	3.85%​	4.2%​	0.30%​	-0.35%​
VGF	52​	4.78%​	7229​	3.72%​	5.7%​	-0.92%​	-1.98%​
OKW	110​	10.10%​	23149​	11.90%​	9.8%​	0.30%​	2.10%​
PVB	125​	11.48%​	15424​	7.93%​	5.1%​	6.38%​	2.83%​
RIV	39​	3.58%​	8640​	4.44%​	8.5%​	-4.92%​	-4.06%​
SSR	161​	14.78%​	29910​	15.38%​	17.8%​	-3.02%​	-2.42%​
VDH	4​	0.37%​	620​	0.32%​		0.37%​	0.32%​
VGC	25​	2.30%​	5260​	2.70%​	1.4%​	0.90%​	1.30%​

The point of the initial post wasn’t about how many Aulani overall are on the market but rather that there was suddenly a large amount all dropped with a week by 2 brokers heavily leaning with one broker, so I’m still holding my pitchfork.

 

[Cfabar1]

When you see these issues, they are playing games with highly desirable inventory... beach club is rarely mentioned in these discussions, despite having desirable inventory vs. cash rates...

It is always the most desirable rooms like AKV value or BWV standard... These are part of the problem.... the commercial renters are using bots and AI to get THE MOST discerning and desirable rooms.... It is probably costing especially BWV owners in terms of resale value... if I were to buy I would be pricing at the pool/garden prices, and not standard.

 

[atthebeachclub]

When you see these issues, they are playing games with highly desirable inventory... beach club is rarely mentioned in these discussions, despite having desirable inventory vs. cash rates...

It is always the most desirable rooms like AKV value or BWV standard... These are part of the problem.... the commercial renters are using bots and AI to get THE MOST discerning and desirable rooms.... It is probably costing especially BWV owners in terms of resale value... if I were to buy I would be pricing at the pool/garden prices, and not standard.

Yes. Beach Club is super duper easy to book at 11 months. No bots there! I can’t say the same for AKV Value, Boardwalk Standard (I don’t own but look there) or for BLT standard.

 

[CastAStone]

beach club is rarely mentioned in these discussions, despite having desirable inventory vs. cash rates

Beach Club is zero issue to rent exactly what you want without a confirmed reservation as long as you ask 8+ months in advance. There’s only 3 room types and no views.

 

[AstroBlasters]

It went from 100 contracts to 170 contracts within a week…. that’s not a normal flow of the market or a seasonal increase…..

 

[Genie+]

I think BCV stays down the ‘for-profit radar’ for a combination of reasons.

It usually has a higher resale price than BWV, does not have the super economical standard category or the separate access to best view category, and is a small resort.

When buying a contract for rental profit, BW is much better suited. Higher profit margins, cheaper entry, more resale inventory. Why buy BCV when BWV will perform better?

Just another thing showing how commercial activity focuses on things so much differently than personal use.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I think BCV stays down the ‘for-profit radar’ for a combination of reasons.

It usually has a higher resale price than BWV, does not have the super economical standard category or the separate access to best view category, and is a small resort.

When buying a contract for rental profit, BW is much better suited. Higher profit margins, cheaper entry, more resale inventory. Why buy BCV when BWV will perform better?

Just another thing showing how commercial activity focuses on things so much differently than personal use.

Funny I was just looking at the newest resales and thought to myself how crazy it is that Aulani is $40 cheaper pp than BCV when BCV it ends in 2042.

 

[atthebeachclub]

Funny I was just looking at the newest resales and thought to myself how crazy it is that Aulani is $40 cheaper pp than BCV when BCV it ends in 2042.

Much cheaper for me to fly to Orlando than to Hawaii! Otherwise I’d buy Aulani too!

 

[VGCgroupie]

Much cheaper for me to fly to Orlando than to Hawaii! Otherwise I’d buy Aulani too!

Yeah it can really depend on where you live. For me it’s about the same price sometimes cheaper.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Much cheaper for me to fly to Orlando than to Hawaii! Otherwise I’d buy Aulani too!

Not for us. It is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to fly to Hawaii.