The Duggar Family

[pintamino]

Lol, well, when you are old enough to not post your grades, your opinion on child bearing, parenting and life styles might mean a bit more. Hopefully university will help you understand and appreciate diversity.

as the bumper sticker says, "a mind is like a prachute...it is only good when it is open."

I'm plenty diverse and very open, thank you. Perhaps you're the one who needs to open your mind if you think that age or educational status means somebody isn't diverse or entitled to her own opinion... And just because you don't agree doesn't give you the right to say my opinion is irrelevant.

(and I'm not really interested in taking counsel from a bumper sticker, but thanks for the contribution I suppose)

 

[Rosiekins]

That, to me, is so telling. It doesn't depend on the girls' interests. They "might" go into a traditionally female profession. Only the boys get the freedom to choose their own path.

Your Statement is part of an attitude that really angers me. You go on about choices but then get mad because they are referring to a "feminine profession". So Choices only count if they are going to go to College and get what you consider an acceptable career? Why is homemaking and motherhood, or nursing or whatever "feminine" choice they make not okay? I love the idea of having the choice of what you want to do but that really means having the choice. All the choices from Motherhood to Wall Street, not just ones that are socially expected. Perhaps that is not what you meant but that is how it sounded to me.

 

[mnrose]

Your Statement is part of an attitude that really angers me. You go on about choices but then get mad because they are referring to a "feminine profession". So Choices only count if they are going to go to College and get what you consider an acceptable career? Why is homemaking and motherhood, or nursing or whatever "feminine" choice they make not okay? I love the idea of having the choice of what you want to do but that really means having the choice. All the choices from Motherhood to Wall Street, not just ones that are socially expected. Perhaps that is not what you meant but that is how it sounded to me.

I think what people are reacting to in Jim Bob's statement is that the girls can be nurses, but the boys get to follow their interests. Wouldn't it be an ideal world where we ALL, regardless of gender, can follow our interests? And, if his daughter wants to be a pilot, and his son, a stay at home dad, wouldn't that be nice? Frankly, if all his daughters want to be homemakers, no issue either. I respect that. But, I want THEM to choose, not their dad and mom.

Instead, Jim Bob has limited his daughters, and left the horizons open to his sons. Doesn't work for me, and I suspect this is what others are saying.

 

[deerhart]

you do love that breeding/breeder term Princessmom...that's where anything you say loses compassion for your experience from me

these people are NOT animals and they DON'T breed one more time animals breed

The ONLY time I have ever heard about breeding prior to the Dis boards in terms of humans was in history when dictators wanted to cleanse whole groups in society and breed a superior race...perhaps this is why I find it so offensive and truly wish the term would be dropped

actually, the term breeding was fused like we use the term pregnant through the 17th, 18th and 19th century.

And princessmom is right, we are animals and we do breed. Many scientific papers discussing genetics and such will still refer to human breeding.

With that said.. I think they are crazy to have any more kids after the last bout with Preeclampsia. She has so many risk factors now its not even funny. A 2nd bout of PE, even if its not as bad as the first bout, can do a ton of damage.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

actually, the term breeding was fused like we use the term pregnant through the 17th, 18th and 19th century.

And princessmom is right, we are animals and we do breed. Many scientific papers discussing genetics and such will still refer to human breeding.

With that said.. I think they are crazy to have any more kids after the last bout with Preeclampsia. She has so many risk factors now its not even funny. A 2nd bout of PE, even if its not as bad as the first bout, can do a ton of damage.

Awww, if this were a scientific paper discussing the process without a personal bias, all would be good. When it is combined with the negative comments about people's life choices, religious convictions, and tons of non scientific personal bias it becomes a whole other animal.

Science uses the term mongloid to mean one thing, nasty classless nasty people use it for a whole other purpose. You wanna guess whether that offends me too?

 

[princessmom29]

As others have expressed, I am sorry you were affected by your past experiences, but you are crossing line of having an opionion and being down right insulting.

I too will pray for your compassion as you are in great need of it.

"Christians should leave family planning in God's hands, and become "maternal missionaries": birthing as many children as He gives them as both a demonstration of radical faith and obedience, as well as a plan to effect Christian revival in the culture through demographic means—that is, by having more children than their political opponents." Direct quote from Mary Pride, founder of the quiverfull movement in her book The Way Home: Beyond Feminism and Back to Reality

They are absoultely trying to breed as many christians as possible. I didn't make it up. I got it directly from the horse's mouth. This is what SHE siad in the difnitive text that all quiverfull families rely on. They are simply trying to have as many children as possible as fast as possible.

As to compassion, I have plenty for the children who are brought into this nightmare with no say in the matter. I feel thier pain, believe me. I cannot imagine living in an environment where my only value is as a soldier to the "cause". It has to be a sad, lonely existance amoungst the horde. I have NO compassion however for parents who willingly choose to make thier children no more than a part of a growing army trying to squeeze out the competition. I don't know why anyone would expect to have compassion for someone who abuses a child. I am sorry, but I just cannot do that.

 

[Luvchefmic]

actually, the term breeding was fused like we use the term pregnant through the 17th, 18th and 19th century.

And princessmom is right, we are animals and we do breed. Many scientific papers discussing genetics and such will still refer to human breeding.

With that said.. I think they are crazy to have any more kids after the last bout with Preeclampsia. She has so many risk factors now its not even funny. A 2nd bout of PE, even if its not as bad as the first bout, can do a ton of damage.

Yes just make a remark or statement and then move on with "with that said"

If you believe in the theory of evolution then yes we are animals I believe in the Lord Our God and we are stewards of the animals NOT animals but what do I know I guess we will see who is right in the end...this prayer list continues to grow. As for me I will go watch Glenn Beck and keep my further opinions to myself...for now

 

[Rosiekins]

I think what people are reacting to in Jim Bob's statement is that the girls can be nurses, but the boys get to follow their interests. Wouldn't it be an ideal world where we ALL, regardless of gender, can follow our interests? And, if his daughter wants to be a pilot, and his son, a stay at home dad, wouldn't that be nice? Frankly, if all his daughters want to be homemakers, no issue either. I respect that. But, I want THEM to choose, not their dad and mom.

Instead, Jim Bob has limited his daughters, and left the horizons open to his sons. Doesn't work for me, and I suspect this is what others are saying.

That I get, no one should make your choice for you. All parents encourage and steer their kids in the direction they want them to go though. I really think the girls want to be homemakers but if they don't I hope their parents show them the compassion, acceptance and understanding that they seem to show everyone else.

I sort of feel the same way when I hear parents telling their kids they have to go to college. Well no they don't, you just want them too. They can go to Trade School or learn a trade, start working right away (lower wages maybe but way way less debt absolutely and you get a head start in the job market), get married and start a family etc...

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

lol, your concept of abuse is remarkably unscientific for someone who wants to use those terms!

 

[SeansMom]

Your Statement is part of an attitude that really angers me. You go on about choices but then get mad because they are referring to a "feminine profession". So Choices only count if they are going to go to College and get what you consider an acceptable career? Why is homemaking and motherhood, or nursing or whatever "feminine" choice they make not okay? I love the idea of having the choice of what you want to do but that really means having the choice. All the choices from Motherhood to Wall Street, not just ones that are socially expected. Perhaps that is not what you meant but that is how it sounded to me.

Respectfully (being a nurse) I have to say I was always, always given a choice. I choose to be a nurse as a stepping stone, but these girls are not being given a choice...nobody is saying it's okay if they are a dentist and don't have kids. THAT is true choice. And I don't think anybody here is saying motherhood is not a fine thing to experience, but not everybody wants to be a Mom. My point is that choice means just that...ALL conceivable (no pun intended) life choices open to these girls. They are NOT. I bet the parents say, in this order, marriage and family, nursing or teacher, and possibly a secretary. Again, as a nurse & a Mom, these are all great choices. But maybe one of the girls wants to be a pilot, and maybe some of them never want to raise another child. THAT's the difference.

actually, the term breeding was fused like we use the term pregnant through the 17th, 18th and 19th century.

And princessmom is right, we are animals and we do breed. Many scientific papers discussing genetics and such will still refer to human breeding.

With that said.. I think they are crazy to have any more kids after the last bout with Preeclampsia. She has so many risk factors now its not even funny. A 2nd bout of PE, even if its not as bad as the first bout, can do a ton of damage.

Or mating. Since I'm in the midst of genetics research I can vouch for both. Although I'm sure people are using breeding because they seem to be churning out babies like bunnies. I know I'll never be able to wrap my mind around that. I just thank God/dess I'm not related to them; I have enough rather odd relatives without adding them to the mix !

 

[DianeV]

Ya know I dont really think anyone needs anyone else on here ' praying' for them...that is so condescending

 

[princessmom29]

Awww, if this were a scientific paper discussing the process without a personal bias, all would be good. When it is combined with the negative comments about people's life choices, religious convictions, and tons of non scientific personal bias it becomes a whole other animal.

Science uses the term mongloid to mean one thing, nasty classless nasty people use it for a whole other purpose. You wanna guess whether that offends me too?

Uh, I guess that it is the scientist in me, but I use that term as discriptor all the time with no enherent bias. I have never heard it used in a rude manner, only as a discriptor of race. Like " the skull appears to be mongloid" in a scientific framework, or "he is a member of the mongloid races, but I am not sure which one". In a more casual conversation. I didn't know it could be insulting.

 

[princessmom29]

lol, your concept of abuse is remarkably unscientific for someone who wants to use those terms!

there is not a scientific concept of abuse. It is a social construct, and a moral distiction. It is not scientificly determined, but rather by social contract and coomon human decency. We all know that mistreating a child is wrong. I think that dehumanizing a child by considering them only one of many of "god's soldiers" (agian thier words not mine) constitutes abuse. I tihn kthat advocating beating children into submission, which they call "ohysical correction of defiance" to be abuse as well. So yes, I think that most people who buy wholesale into the quiverful lifestyle are likley to be abusing thier children.

 

[princessmom29]

Respectfully (being a nurse) I have to say I was always, always given a choice. I choose to be a nurse as a stepping stone, but these girls are not being given a choice...nobody is saying it's okay if they are a dentist and don't have kids. THAT is true choice. And I don't think anybody here is saying motherhood is not a fine thing to experience, but not everybody wants to be a Mom. My point is that choice means just that...ALL conceivable (no pun intended) life choices open to these girls. They are NOT. I bet the parents say, in this order, marriage and family, nursing or teacher, and possibly a secretary. Again, as a nurse & a Mom, these are all great choices. But maybe one of the girls wants to be a pilot, and maybe some of them never want to raise another child. THAT's the difference.



Or mating. Since I'm in the midst of genetics research I can vouch for both. Although I'm sure people are using breeding because they seem to be churning out babies like bunnies. I know I'll never be able to wrap my mind around that. I just thank God/dess I'm not related to them; I have enough rather odd relatives without adding them to the mix !

You are right. These girls don't actually have any choice execpt that mabye thier dad might let them be a nurse for a couple years before they start churning out babies. How compassionate and understanding of him
BTW I still don't believe any of them will ever actually get out of that house before they marry.

 

[princessmom29]

Yes just make a remark or statement and then move on with "with that said"

If you believe in the theory of evolution then yes we are animals I believe in the Lord Our God and we are stewards of the animals NOT animals but what do I know I guess we will see who is right in the end...this prayer list continues to grow. As for me I will go watch Glenn Beck and keep my further opinions to myself...for now

You CAN believe in evolution and still be Christian. I do. Who are we to say that God didn't use a logical order to create the world??

 

[Luvchefmic]

You CAN believe in evolution and still be Christian. I do. Who are we to say that God didn't use a logical order to create the world??

okkkkkkkkkkkkay try Genesis for starters truly I can't see how you can be both a believer & an evolutionist one contradicts the other BUT can't we agree that this particular family has the right to believe what they believe do what they want have the amount of children that they believe God has sent them and let it go at that? Out of respect for their choices that's all

 

[deerhart]

Yes just make a remark or statement and then move on with "with that said"

If you believe in the theory of evolution then yes we are animals I believe in the Lord Our God and we are stewards of the animals NOT animals but what do I know I guess we will see who is right in the end...this prayer list continues to grow. As for me I will go watch Glenn Beck and keep my further opinions to myself...for now

Being as I have an anthropology minor I do believe in evolution and recognize the fact that our genetic make up and chimpanzee genetic makeup are almost 99% identical, I will stick with yes by definition we are animals and we do breed. You can use the word reproduce if you like, but the definitions are identical. Simply because I beleive in evolution does not mean I don't beleive in God or a higher order, or that I am not a Christian. It simply means that I think God had a wonderful long term plan.

As for the remark on who is right in the end, isn't that one of the main problems with today's society and world. It's NOT about who is right or who is wrong (because I FIRMLY beleive NONE of us has got it 100% right at all). It is about FAITH and believing in something bigger then yourself.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Ya know I dont really think anyone needs anyone else on here ' praying' for them...that is so condescending

sorry you feel its condescending I pray for the world

 

[deerhart]

okkkkkkkkkkkkay try Genesis for starters truly I can't see how you can be both a believer & an evolutionist one contradicts the other BUT can't we agree that this particular family has the right to believe what they believe do what they want have the amount of children that they believe God has sent them and let it go at that? Out of respect for their choices that's all

Well that depends on your view of the bible. I see the Bible as the story of God as written by MAN. Further, MAN, no matter what they are writing, always takes an artistic license. Further, if you study many ancient cultures and writings, religious stories were always used as a way of explaining things people did not understand. They were put into religious stories as a means to control the uneducated masses. Further, many religions incorporated the dictates of an older religion when they encompassed that religion into theirs. For example, we celebrate Christmas on December 25th, which happens to coincide with several pagen religious holidays. This date was selected as a means of keeping the new masses settled and not revolting because it made the "new religion" seem familiar and thus they accepted the new religion more readily (remember that history clearly shows that most religions, including Christianity were forced onto people by new rulers).

The differing views on religion are all part of our free will!

 

[princessmom29]

okkkkkkkkkkkkay try Genesis for starters truly I can't see how you can be both a believer & an evolutionist one contradicts the other BUT can't we agree that this particular family has the right to believe what they believe do what they want have the amount of children that they believe God has sent them and let it go at that? Out of respect for their choices that's all

Have you actually read On the Origin of Species?? I don't see how one cotradicts the other. In fact, the creation narrative actually mirrors the fossil record perfectly if you do not consider creatino as literally a 7 day poocess. The Bible also says that a thousand years is but the blink of an eye to God. One compliments not contridicts the other. My take on it is: God made animals from the same substance he made man. The difference is that he endowed man with a soul. That is metaphysical however, so in physical reality we are animals. Special animals certianly, but we ar made of the same thing as every other animal on earth. To believe in Evolution as a theory of how life on earth progressed does not mean you cannot believe in a creator.