The Downfall of DAS and the rise of Fastpass+.... coincidence?

[jennab]

There's a difference between simply not wanting to use it and using it exacerbating a co-existing disability. I'm not commenting specifically on DAS - but in general people shouldn't have to ignore the impact on one of their disabilities in order to accommodate another - both need to be accommodated.

Yes, but I feel those situations are few and far between.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Perhaps, but it’s also hard to be sympathetic to that argument, because everyone who has mobility issues but doesn’t want to use a wheelchair could just claim that using one causes anxiety/stress, which would be counter-productive to making lines accessible to begin with.

Let's be honest - our society in general isn't sympathetic to people with anxiety, no matter how debilitating it may be for them. It's often assumed people should be able to just push through it, or people are exaggerating or lying, or it's something else.

My minimally-speaking child was suffering from significant anxiety a few years ago - Both her teacher and the school mental health provider declared definitively she couldn't be anxious because she wasn't angry or crying. The teacher continued to respond to her anxiety as though she were just being defiant for the rest of the year. We are *still* - more than 2 years later - trying to recover communication skills and school engagement that were lost from that terrible year.

I put no stock at all in what people consider sympathetic when it comes to mental health. This country has a long way to go in its understanding and support of mental health needs.

 

[jennab]

I put no stock at all in what people consider sympathetic when it comes to mental health. This country has a long way to go in its understanding and support of mental health needs.

I definitely agree there. It’s very unfortunate that mental health still seems to have a stigma and not a lot of support.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There's a difference between simply not wanting to use it and using it exacerbating a co-existing disability. I'm not commenting specifically on DAS - but in general people shouldn't have to ignore the impact on one of their disabilities in order to accommodate another - both need to be accommodated.

The ones you're really speaking about don't come up very much if discussing mobility aids and other situations, not on the threads at least across the years. The vast majority are more about someone viewing a mobility aid with a pre-conceived perception and then when it's suggested to use it (by posters or by Disney) get affronted. For sure there are times where having a mobility aid (outside of anxiety) isn't the solution to use 100% of the time but it doesn't mean it can't be used some of the time. There's nothing that says if you have a cane you have to use it all the time, or a wheelchair or an ecv; as needed is perfectly fine too.

Let's be honest - our society in general isn't sympathetic to people with anxiety, no matter how debilitating it may be for them.

Individuals I know with anxiety including my cousin's child with cognitive disorder most avoid the parks because of what the parks represent. They will not put themselves in that situation and I don't know anyone who willingly does so unless they know they can handle it on their own (like my cousin's child who has very much improved over the years; she knows her limitations as she's gotten older much better). Several combat veterans I know would never go to a theme park because it would trigger their PTSD (which is a question that has come up every now and then on threads). The ones I know whose anxiety is very debilitating are not about putting themselves in a situations where they will get triggered. My friend has high anxiety towards thunderstorms and unfortunately that is commonplace here but she does what she can mostly a weighted blanket.

I know you view the Parks as your place to go to get away from the rest of the world but it's not something the people I know with such high anxiety view it as, it's like their worst nightmare and they aren't compromising their mental health to go there. They don't go to our regional park either (except for my cousin's child with the cognitive disorder).

People deal with anxiety disorders differently and there are different triggers but you (general you) also have to have an understanding what a place can actually do for you or if you're a minor child with anxiety your parent or guardian would have to understand if you're choosing to go to a place that may potentially trigger you in some way or another including what options they have available for someone.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I know you view the Parks as your place to go to get away from the rest of the world but it's not something the people I know with such high anxiety view it as, it's like their worst nightmare and they aren't compromising their mental health to go there. They don't go to our regional park either (except for my cousin's child with the cognitive disorder).

Anxiety it is a very personal thing and triggers can vary widely. My daughter still struggles with anxiety, but theme parks aren't her trigger, they actually regulate her (for reasons I won't go into as we've been asked not to).

I don't assume what other people's triggers are or aren't - if they've chosen to share, great, if they don't, I operate again with the assumption of positive intent that they know their triggers and they are addressing them whether or not they're detailing that out.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Anxiety it is a very personal thing and triggers can vary widely. My daughter still struggles with anxiety, but theme parks aren't her trigger, they actually regulate her (for reasons I won't go into as we've been asked not to).

I don't assume what other people's triggers are or aren't - if they've chosen to share, great, if they don't, I operate again with the assumption of positive intent that they know their triggers and they are addressing them whether or not they're detailing that out.

Angel---
You glossed over this in your haste to respond

People deal with anxiety disorders differently and there are different triggers

Please don't assume something that is explicitly written to be otherwise

 

[Angel Ariel]

Angel---
You glossed over this in your haste to respond


Please don't assume something that is explicitly written to be otherwise

I didn't actually - I was responding to the point that was directed at me. The second statement was about myself, not assuming anything about you at all. Im sorry if it came across otherwise. Text doesn't read the way it's intended sometimes.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I didn't actually - I was responding to the point that was directed at me. The second statement was about myself, not assuming anything about you at all. Im sorry if it came across otherwise. Text doesn't read the way it's intended sometimes.

The only thing that was directed at you was to say I know from your past comments that you in particular view the parks as your escape from the world; reprieve I think is the word you used. I do think that plays into maybe how you view the topic when people start to talk about accommodations or what Disney (or any company) can offer.

All the rest was general you, I can understand how you might have seen it from your side but that's why I said general you when discussing the rest

 

[jennab]

The ones you're really speaking about don't come up very much if discussing mobility aids and other situations, not on the threads at least across the years. The vast majority are more about someone viewing a mobility aid with a pre-conceived perception and then when it's suggested to use it (by posters or by Disney) get affronted. For sure there are times where having a mobility aid (outside of anxiety) isn't the solution to use 100% of the time but it doesn't mean it can't be used some of the time. There's nothing that says if you have a cane you have to use it all the time, or a wheelchair or an ecv; as needed is perfectly fine too.


Individuals I know with anxiety including my cousin's child with cognitive disorder most avoid the parks because of what the parks represent. They will not put themselves in that situation and I don't know anyone who willingly does so unless they know they can handle it on their own (like my cousin's child who has very much improved over the years; she knows her limitations as she's gotten older much better). Several combat veterans I know would never go to a theme park because it would trigger their PTSD (which is a question that has come up every now and then on threads). The ones I know whose anxiety is very debilitating are not about putting themselves in a situations where they will get triggered. My friend has high anxiety towards thunderstorms and unfortunately that is commonplace here but she does what she can mostly a weighted blanket.

I know you view the Parks as your place to go to get away from the rest of the world but it's not something the people I know with such high anxiety view it as, it's like their worst nightmare and they aren't compromising their mental health to go there. They don't go to our regional park either (except for my cousin's child with the cognitive disorder).

People deal with anxiety disorders differently and there are different triggers but you (general you) also have to have an understanding what a place can actually do for you or if you're a minor child with anxiety your parent or guardian would have to understand if you're choosing to go to a place that may potentially trigger you in some way or another including what options they have available for someone.

True. This is somewhere people are choosing to go, it’s not a need. I have major anxiety and panic attacks. I have to take medication to fly and at other times. Knowing this about myself when I plan a trip to Disney I try to go during low crowd times, rope drop, take breaks during busy time of day, buy G+, don’t stand and watch fireworks on Main Street, avoid things that will trigger my panic attacks as much as I can, and lastly take meds if needed.

Disney can’t make their parks be less busy and crowded because I have anxiety, some of that is on me to decide what to do and how to do it, just like at home.

 

[smartlabelprint]

what do people do everywhere else in life? What do they do waiting for fireworks, at the airport, driving places, zoo? How is the queue at Disney causing the problem?

Don’t take disabled kids to grocery store, (pickup only or delivery), fireworks or busy community events. Our zoo is a small outdoor place with literally no queues. Airport offers security assistance through TSA Cares and the airline allows us to pre-board with their disability accommodation. Homeschool to avoid sensory overload.

And obviously I can’t explain how the Disney queue specifically affects us.

My kids have autism and/ or similar. We struggled through our April DL trip (wagon disallowed, no oxygen ) while still using DAS. We live in the US, but I have to buy airfare and book hotels. I can’t wait until 30 days before a trip to plan pending DAS approval. To get approved for DAS you have to buy non-refundable DL tickets. We can’t afford to throw away $3000 on tickets for our family if DAS isn’t approved.

 

[smartlabelprint]

Yes! There were a few I’ve seen that didn’t want to use a wheelchair because they would be embarrassed, even though it would help their issue. You said it much better than I could!

Their feelings are valid. I don’t know what to do about this for my 8 yo. Last month she expressed embarrassment over her stroller wagon that is the perfect cocoon for her in crowds. (But not allowed at Disney). People we knew kept saying how awesome it looked or they wanted a ride. How do I explain this to a developmentally disabled kid with an 87 IQ? I’m honestly asking for suggestions.

 

[smartlabelprint]

I know you view the Parks as your place to go to get away from the rest of the world

I was thinking about this as I read various das threads today. The parks are my place as a parent to get away. They were before we adopted. It’s challenging as a parent of a child with special needs because we give up so much to accommodate day after day. Taking an adult only trip wasn’t the answer either. It involved double the planning to make sure the kids were taken care of. Then they were out of routine and coming home felt like the break wasn’t “worth it”. Such a conundrum.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I was thinking about this as I read various das threads today. The parks are my place as a parent to get away. They were before we adopted. It’s challenging as a parent of a child with special needs because we give up so much to accommodate day after day. Taking an adult only trip wasn’t the answer either. It involved double the planning to make sure the kids were taken care of. Then they were out of routine and coming home felt like the break wasn’t “worth it”. Such a conundrum.

That comment was more about them having certain expectations of what they viewed Disney and DAS should do and be for their child based on how they view the parks in its role in their lives. Many people go to Disney to get away (and we all have things in our lives) but Disney doesn't owe us certain things just because we view it as that. That particular comment wasn't about generalities because many of us go to Disney (or Universal or other places) to have fun, get a break from the stresses of the world

**this is one of those times I wish we had a care reaction instead of a like

 

[Angel Ariel]

That comment was more about them having certain expectations of what they viewed Disney and DAS should do and be for their child based on how they view the parks in its role in their lives.

Since the comment was about/to me, let me clarify - the above is not how I feel, and I don't appreciate someone else saying this is how I feel. It may be how you've interpreted what I wrote, but it is not my views. I viewed the parks as our place to get away with DD long before we used DAS with her. Walt Disney himself said "here you leave today and enter the worlds of yesterday, tomorrow and fantasy." - *that* is what I mean when I say it's our place to get away. It's not because of DAS or tied to DAS in any way and I have never indicated Disney owed us anything. I have said from the beginning that I understand the need for the changes and hope DD will continue to qualify but if she doesn't we will see how it goes.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Since the comment was about/to me, let me clarify - the above is not how I feel, and I don't appreciate someone else saying this is how I feel. It may be how you've interpreted what I wrote, but it is not my views. I viewed the parks as our place to get away with DD long before we used DAS with her. Walt Disney himself said "here you leave today and enter the worlds of yesterday, tomorrow and fantasy." - *that* is what I mean when I say it's our place to get away. It's not because of DAS or tied to DAS in any way and I have never indicated Disney owed us anything. I have said from the beginning that I understand the need for the changes and hope DD will continue to qualify but if she doesn't we will see how it goes.

My apologies but it was made fairly clear multiple times in the other thread and multiple people responded to how you felt surrounding the changes in DAS and what DAS meant. I appreciate your clarification but because the prior conversations were centered on DAS and about DAS, there are nuances that may not be picked up here on this thread so I'll leave it at that. I do hope your daughter does qualify, no one (well hopefully) plans a trip wanting more worries about things

 

[Angel Ariel]

My apologies but it was made fairly clear multiple times in the other thread and multiple people responded to how you felt surrounding the changes in DAS and what DAS meant. I appreciate your clarification but because the prior conversations were centered on DAS and about DAS, there are nuances that may not be picked up here on this thread so I'll leave it at that. I do hope your daughter does qualify, no one (well hopefully) plans a trip wanting more worries about things

Expressing sadness and grief over a change that may negatively impact us does not equal feeling like Disney owes me anything.

You can accept what I'm saying here or not, that's your choice, but please do not characterize how I feel about something again. I would not speak to how you personally feel, and I would appreciate the same respect.

ETA: and just to clarify, there's no anger here - I realized after I posted it could read that way. Just fast typing first thing in the morning. Thank you for the good wishes for my daughter.

 

[jennab]

Their feelings are valid. I don’t know what to do about this for my 8 yo. Last month she expressed embarrassment over her stroller wagon that is the perfect cocoon for her in crowds. (But not allowed at Disney). People we knew kept saying how awesome it looked or they wanted a ride. How do I explain this to a developmentally disabled kid with an 87 IQ? I’m honestly asking for suggestions.

I’m confused. The stroller won’t be allowed at Disney so what are you explaining? Is she going to use another type of stroller or wheelchair and is embarrassed about that? Kids (and adults) get embarrassed about a lot of things. I guess I would explain that we are unable to go to Disney without it.

 

[jennab]

Don’t take disabled kids to grocery store, (pickup only or delivery), fireworks or busy community events. Our zoo is a small outdoor place with literally no queues. Airport offers security assistance through TSA Cares and the airline allows us to pre-board with their disability accommodation. Homeschool to avoid sensory overload.

And obviously I can’t explain how the Disney queue specifically affects us.

My kids have autism and/ or similar. We struggled through our April DL trip (wagon disallowed, no oxygen ) while still using DAS. We live in the US, but I have to buy airfare and book hotels. I can’t wait until 30 days before a trip to plan pending DAS approval. To get approved for DAS you have to buy non-refundable DL tickets. We can’t afford to throw away $3000 on tickets for our family if DAS isn’t approved.

I have read that undercover tourist sells tickets that you can get 95% refund on if you need to return/cancel. Definitely read their website for the fine print. I would also book refundable airfare and hotels. Remember, even prior you couldn’t apply for DAS until 30 days or even when you got there. That part has not changed. So just like everything else in life, make sure you are planning for possible scenarios. Another option is to buy LLMP which allows you to also use the LL.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Expressing sadness and grief over a change that may negatively impact us does not equal feeling like Disney owes me anything.

You can accept what I'm saying here or not, that's your choice, but please do not characterize how I feel about something again. I would not speak to how you personally feel, and I would appreciate the same respect.

ETA: and just to clarify, there's no anger here - I realized after I posted it could read that way. Just fast typing first thing in the morning. Thank you for the good wishes for my daughter.

I'm going off various months-long comments from another thread which is why it would be hard for it to be fully picked up here. You are responding to me thusly because I used the word owed understandable and it may very well be a mischaracterization for which I would apologize for if that's the case, it is being pieced together from many comments even a mod responded by saying "Accommodations are not granted to make up for the hardships of life. Yes, everyone wants to relax a bit on vacation and not have to work so hard. But it's a very personal situation which skills a person has or might be working on, but it certainly is not required of WDW to provide accommodations to allow for that break.".

No disrespect meant but I hadn't really read in your comments much in the ways of expressions of sadness or grief. Maybe that's why I and others have characterized your comments a certain way because I've pretty much just read what you use the parks for, why you need DAS and that disabled individuals have a lot of things going on in the outside world, why someone else's tips and tricks don't work for you, why people shouldn't offer advice unless asked, etc. I have no doubt you feel great concern for your daughter's qualification though and with the information you shared about her condition's quite understandable.

I'm not reading anger in your comments so no worries on that front

It's far too early in the morning and I haven't had my coffee yet so I'm respectfully going to back off the conversation. Please don't interpret that in any sort of way I'm just off without my coffee

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I have read that undercover tourist sells tickets that you can get 95% refund on if you need to return/cancel. Definitely read their website for the fine print. I would also book refundable airfare and hotels. Remember, even prior you couldn’t apply for DAS until 30 days or even when you got there. That part has not changed. So just like everything else in life, make sure you are planning for possible scenarios. Another option is to buy LLMP which allows you to also use the LL.

The timeframe is 365 days from purchase date for a refund but like you mentioned read the website to see if that is still the case or if anything else has changed in their terms and conditions. I know one of my DISer friends had to do that a few months back and IIRC it was easy enough. I've bought from UT 3 times but haven't had to do a refund.

For hotels we almost always book flexible cancellation policy of 24 hours ahead (some have been 48 or 72 hours). It can be a little bit more in the nightly rate depending on the company or hotel but can really help. That way someone isn't even out money yet. We really try to avoid pre-paying unless that's impossible.