The BIG complaint...and a possible (unsatisfying) solution

[Jonfw2]

So since the Covid reopening/ the start of the Chapek era, there have been many consternations expressed by (primarily) the die hard Disney fanatic community. Some very founded, some perhaps not so much (as we have to acknowledge the unique issues Disney has faced due to the two above-mentioned issues).

But there is one complaint that seems to stand out and definitely deserves respect as very fair: it just takes too d-mn much out of you to plan and organize a trip now. With multiple opening times, constantly changing park hours, the reservation system, ADR changes, messing with AP's, and especially LL/G+, it is virtually impossible to just stop and enjoy yourself. It used to be you could do 90% of the planning in advance and then enjoy your park days. Now, you have to do 90% on the go while you're supposed to just be having fun.

But there is a solution as I see it...and it's arguably worse than the present:

Disney is certainly aware of the above. Now, the money may be flowing, but eventually when enough people are turned off by staring at their phones 9 hours every day when they're supposed to be relaxing, Disney may have to address this. And my fear is they will address it by introducing a new option to avoid most of the above...

They will introduce an "all inclusive" structure in which you get multiple fast passes (in advance), guaranteed park access with no rez, additional LL access BEFORE day of, earlier access to ADRs, and even a return to the meal plan. You could then just wake up whenever and enjoy your day.

So what's the catch? Obviously, the cost. This upgrade won't be free and it won't be included with your resort (ala, Universal). This "all inclusive" option will be comparable in cost to doing a VIP tour like Keys to the Kingdom every day of your stay- and it will only be available if booked for your entire stay for your entire party.

So that's my guess as to the "solution" to this issue. Want to avoid all the day-of nonsense? You got it! Now just hand the mouse that wallet...

 

[TheSouthernBelle]

So since the Covid reopening/ the start of the Chapek era, there have been many consternations expressed by (primarily) the die hard Disney fanatic community. Some very founded, some perhaps not so much (as we have to acknowledge the unique issues Disney has faced due to the two above-mentioned issues).

But there is one complaint that seems to stand out and definitely deserves respect as very fair: it just takes too d-mn much out of you to plan and organize a trip now. With multiple opening times, constantly changing park hours, the reservation system, ADR changes, messing with AP's, and especially LL/G+, it is virtually impossible to just stop and enjoy yourself. It used to be you could do 90% of the planning in advance and then enjoy your park days. Now, you have to do 90% on the go while you're supposed to just be having fun.

But there is a solution as I see it...and it's arguably worse than the present:

Disney is certainly aware of the above. Now, the money may be flowing, but eventually when enough people are turned off by staring at their phones 9 hours every day when they're supposed to be relaxing, Disney may have to address this. And my fear is they will address it by introducing a new option to avoid most of the above...

They will introduce an "all inclusive" structure in which you get multiple fast passes (in advance), guaranteed park access with no rez, additional LL access BEFORE day of, earlier access to ADRs, and even a return to the meal plan. You could then just wake up whenever and enjoy your day.

So what's the catch? Obviously, the cost. This upgrade won't be free and it won't be included with your resort (ala, Universal). This "all inclusive" option will be comparable in cost to doing a VIP tour like Keys to the Kingdom every day of your stay- and it will only be available if booked for your entire stay for your entire party.

So that's my guess as to the "solution" to this issue. Want to avoid all the day-of nonsense? You got it! Now just hand the mouse that wallet...

I like your all inclusive introduction. Many of the trips we do, we specifically choose for overall ease of planning.....most of which as wife/mom/woman who loves to plan.... I do anyway since I enjoy it. We've been to WDW over a handful of times since the parks reopened and I have to say, I actually do less planning than we did in prior years/pre-covid. Now I don't love G+/iLL$, it has some negatives, first and foremost is the cost when it was basically "free" before but here me out on this.....

We don't have to book FP+ months in advance, (we now do book park reservations which I don't love). I also don't make many ADRs (side effect of not knowing where we'll be in the parks at any given time) so overall since FP+ has been sunsetted, we're more loose with our park planning. With G+, by 7am the morning of, I have a general idea of where we'll be in the park for the first ride or have a ride to plan around. I set my alarm for booking additional G+ and outside of mobile ordering or booking a last minute ADR/walkup reservation, I really don't spend a ton of time on my phone.

We don't use G+ at Epcot or AK and not always at MK and DHS, so it's not a given we always purchase it. So even less time is spent on my phone on those visits. Overall, I think we spend less time tethered to our phones and adhering to a strict schedule now than we did before. With FP+, I felt like after we used up our last one, we were constantly looking for something better to come along. I know there are others that will vehemently disagree with me and I get it. I really don't care for G+ but Disney doesn't care what I think so there we are. If it were up to me, I would pay a premium/more $ for more items to be included but the frustration factor is real when so many things were included before that we now pay for like FP+ and Magic Bands so we're paying more for essentially the same service and in some cases less comprehensive service.

 

[Jonfw2]

I like your all inclusive introduction. Many of the trips we do, we specifically choose for overall ease of planning.....most of which as wife/mom/woman who loves to plan.... I do anyway since I enjoy it. We've been to WDW over a handful of times since the parks reopened and I have to say, I actually do less planning than we did in prior years/pre-covid. Now I don't love G+/iLL$, it has some negatives, first and foremost is the cost when it was basically "free" before but here me out on this.....

We don't have to book FP+ months in advance, (we now do book park reservations which I don't love). I also don't make many ADRs (side effect of not knowing where we'll be in the parks at any given time) so overall since FP+ has been sunsetted, we're more loose with our park planning. With G+, by 7am the morning of, I have a general idea of where we'll be in the park for the first ride or have a ride to plan around. I set my alarm for booking additional G+ and outside of mobile ordering or booking a last minute ADR/walkup reservation, I really don't spend a ton of time on my phone.

We don't use G+ at Epcot or AK and not always at MK and DHS, so it's not a given we always purchase it. So even less time is spent on my phone on those visits. Overall, I think we spend less time tethered to our phones and adhering to a strict schedule now than we did before. With FP+, I felt like after we used up our last one, we were constantly looking for something better to come along. I know there are others that will vehemently disagree with me and I get it. I really don't care for G+ but Disney doesn't care what I think so there we are. If it were up to me, I would pay a premium/more $ for more items to be included but the frustration factor is real when so many things were included before that we now pay for like FP+ and Magic Bands so we're paying more for essentially the same service and in some cases less comprehensive service.

That is a fascinating perspective. Thank you.

Presidents’ Day weekend was my first experience with LL and the planner in me loved it but in retrospect, it was just too much.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I grew up going to WDW and my mom was the planner of our family. She used to make Excel spreadsheets with our park days, ADRs, Fastpasses, etc. I guess I got that from her because now, she has retired from that role and I am the new family planner. I actually liked being able to plan Fastpasses in advance; it alleviated stress on my end as it guaranteed us a "spot" on certain rides and we could work around those 3 passes and in a lot of cases get more for popular rides. Before Fastpass+ I was the "runner" of our family who would take all of our cards and run over to a ride for a paper Fastpass. Both systems weren't perfect obviously and if you were to ask me I would say that I liked Fastpass+ better. I'm not sure if people that wish for paper Fastpass back remember how brutal it was - who else remembers the massive rush to Soarin first thing and for cast members to put out a "sorry, we have run out of Fastpasses for today" sign outside the Land 30 minutes after park open?

I always thought that I loved planning every single hour of my day until I took a trip to Tokyo Disneyland and Disneysea in 2019 and WOW! Those parks are not only extremely well maintained, but they really do allow you to have breathing room in terms of taking it all in. I did not plan a single thing except for grabbing Fastpasses (they still had paper Fastpass during my trip and I only remember Journey to the Center of the Earth selling out about an hour after park open) and it was lovely. It also completely ruined WDW for me - the overall park experience being 1000% times better beats having new and fancy rides any day. Sorry to say but I think the fact that Tokyo Disney is NOT owned by Disney is the reason why those parks excel so much.

Now with my upcoming trip and having to juggle Genie+/ILL the planner inside of me is stressed out. Not being able to guarantee getting specific rides is the worst part for me and I think a lot of people can agree, that's why I could see Disney charging extra for that guarantee. No one else in my group understands the stress of the planner lol I do wish I could just relax and take in the ambiance at the parks, but I understand that WDW does not operate like that/is not interested in operating like that. I can definitely see Disney charging extra for a more "complete" experience and it's really unfair, but I know that Disney really doesn't care about what their customers think at all.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

I've always been the Disney planner of our family and preferred the pre-Covid booking timelines. We are DVC so the planning stages for each trip always started 11-12 months out. I think this gave us an advantage at booking dining, as many people don't book vacations 6 months out. I also preferred pre-booking Fatspasses as I was always able to get the headliners for the times/days I wanted. We also had much more success refreshing day of and getting many more than our original 3 fastpasses.

I think a more expensive all inclusive plan as the OP described would work well for us. It would help us replicate our previous trips. Genie+ worked decent for us our first 2 times (Oct 2021 and Jan 2022), but as more people get familiar I think its effectiveness will diminish. At the very least Disney is going to have to raise the price to hopefully have less people use it. If everyone is special no one is special.

 

[Princesca]

I grew up going to WDW and my mom was the planner of our family. She used to make Excel spreadsheets with our park days, ADRs, Fastpasses, etc. I guess I got that from her because now, she has retired from that role and I am the new family planner. I actually liked being able to plan Fastpasses in advance; it alleviated stress on my end as it guaranteed us a "spot" on certain rides and we could work around those 3 passes and in a lot of cases get more for popular rides. Before Fastpass+ I was the "runner" of our family who would take all of our cards and run over to a ride for a paper Fastpass. Both systems weren't perfect obviously and if you were to ask me I would say that I liked Fastpass+ better. I'm not sure if people that wish for paper Fastpass back remember how brutal it was - who else remembers the massive rush to Soarin first thing and for cast members to put out a "sorry, we have run out of Fastpasses for today" sign outside the Land 30 minutes after park open?

I'm with you. I loved FP+. I made my selections in advance and planned them into my park day, so all I needed to do at the parks was occasionally refer to my little Touring Plan printout and have a blast. I didn't like the paper ones. If I'm running, it's because a zombie horde is chasing me. Also, that never seemed safe to me. Rope dropping the most popular attraction can be risky enough.

 

[SusanDK]

I would just be happy if FP+ came back. I would probably even be willing to pay the $15 per person *if* it was like FP+ where I could pre-reserve my 3 rides before going to the park, *and* select my own ride times for those.

 

[RoseGold]

Huh? You had to have a PhD in Disney before Covid too, and you had to get your degree at least six months before your trip.

The only difference I see now is that even a PhD doesn't help you if the parks are crowded enough and G+ can't help you, which is what happened to me in January. I'm sure Disney will fix that with some new system we also have to learn. Seems like fixing G+ would fix most of your complaints, actually, and I believe that will happen.

 

[robinb]

I have a couple of comments on your idea.

• No Disney vacation is "relaxing". There is always some kind of stress and planning involved in a WDW vacation even in the good old days of paper FPs and taking the first bus that arrived at the bus stop. You still needed a basic plan of where to go in which order (and then knowing how tp pivot) or you spent your day standing in lines (which is also annoying and stressful).
• It creates another class of guest based on how much you are willing and able to spend. Disney already differentiates between guests at Value/Moderate resorts and Deluxe/DVC resorts with Extended Evening Hours. There has also been a huge advantage to being able to hire a Plaid or be able to pay for one of the tours like the Ultimate Day of Thrills. If Disney made a change like you proposed it would simply be seen for yet another money grab from the rich who can afford it.
• You compare the price of your suggestion with that of hiring a Plaid everyday. IIRC a Plaid would be able to do all the things you suggest your all-inclusive plan would offer. LL access to all rides, reservations at restaurants, etc. I don't see how your all-inclusive would be any different other than the guest would be doing all the work. It reminds me of self checkout at grocery stores where you do it all yourself for the same price.

FTR, I was happiest with the old paper FPs with a flexible return time followed by no FPs at all. I hated FP+. I will see what I think about G+, but I don't think I will like it because it allows people to book LL before they enter the parks thereby shoving the return time too far ahead to quickly. If it were like MaxPass at Disneyland where you couldn't access it until you entered a park, I think I'd like it a lot better. But, I'll see next month for myself.

 

[TheSouthernBelle]

FTR, I was happiest with the old paper FPs with a flexible return time followed by no FPs at all. I hated FP+. I will see what I think about G+, but I don't think I will like it because it allows people to book LL before they enter the parks thereby shoving the return time too far ahead to quickly. If it were like MaxPass at Disneyland where you couldn't access it until you entered a park, I think I'd like it a lot better. But, I'll see next month for myself.

I was a huge fan of no FP+ at all. Some of our best WDW experiences!! I love to plan our trips and I still got to plan but I didn't have to map out a whole day, there was freedom and spontaneity which was a welcomed refresher. The only constrictor was the park pass reservation.

 

[BamaGuy44]

Huh? You had to have a PhD in Disney before Covid too, and you had to get your degree at least six months before your trip.

The only difference I see now is that even a PhD doesn't help you if the parks are crowded enough and G+ can't help you, which is what happened to me in January. I'm sure Disney will fix that with some new system we also have to learn. Seems like fixing G+ would fix most of your complaints, actually, and I believe that will happen.

I think we have a tendency to think back with nostalgia and idealize how magically easy and stress free it all was “back in the day”. I’m guilty of it too. But you’re right, Disney has always needed planning and strategy, at least for the 20 years or so I’ve been going.

There were detailed strategies in the guide books (web sites were just getting started) about how to split up and hit the paper fast pass kiosks commando style with multiple people cris crossing the parks on foot to get FP. Then FP+ came along and everyone hated it because all their old strategies were invalid and now they had to plan 6 months ahead. And if you showed up unaware of how it worked, sorry you’ll need a time machine to go back and get any FPs. But at least it was free.

That said I would probably pay quite a bit extra some kind of all inclusive deal. People willingly pay essentially double the ticket price for Express at Universal and it’s worth every penny IMO. if Disney offered that kind of Express Pass for $100 a day I would gladly pay it.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I'm with you. I loved FP+. I made my selections in advance and planned them into my park day, so all I needed to do at the parks was occasionally refer to my little Touring Plan printout and have a blast. I didn't like the paper ones. If I'm running, it's because a zombie horde is chasing me. Also, that never seemed safe to me. Rope dropping the most popular attraction can be risky enough.

Agreed with all of this. I still remember seeing dads trample families with small kids and older people just so they could get a Fastpass for Radiator Springs Racing over at Disneyland, it was a mess. The planner in me loved Fastpass+ but I can totally understand why people didn't like the system. It definitely didn't favor those not staying on Disney property.

 

[lowlight]

I can see Disney eventually creating a new "tier" above Genie+, but below the VIP tours. It will make them more money, but it won't solve the problem for anyone outside of the super rich. Disney has two systems that are diametrically opposed to one another. Resorts may need to be secured 11 months in advance. ADR's need to be done 60 days in advance. Park passes should be done months out for busy times. Then you have Genie+, derping it's way forward, stomping on those carefully curated plans at the last minute. Oh that 12 PM Beaches and Cream you woke up at the butt-crack of dawn to secure? Cancel it, that's when we decided you're doing Frozen.

I think Disney has three ways to go with this-

1) the way you suggested in your post, offer an all in one "do whatever the hell you want whenever you want it" ultra-luxe $$$$ plan
2) go back to allowing everything to be pre-booked and planned in advance
3) or go the opposite way, and eliminate all ADR's, park reservations, and Genie+, and make it a first come, first serve, survival of the fittest "Hunger Games" style vacation. Maybe even eliminate room reservations and let us fight it out for a place to sleep with jousting sticks American Gladiator style. I call dibs on the bungalows.

 

[RoseGold]

I can see Disney eventually creating a new "tier" above Genie+, but below the VIP tours.

All they have to do is hike the price for G+. Capacity solved.

 

[TheSouthernBelle]

3) or go the opposite way, and eliminate all ADR's, park reservations, and Genie+, and make it a first come, first serve, survival of the fittest "Hunger Games" style vacation. Maybe even eliminate room reservations and let us fight it out for a place to sleep with jousting sticks American Gladiator style. I call dibs on the bungalows.

This made me crack up- way too much! I don't know if I'd make it hunger games style.....I work out but I know my limitations. I'd end up at the airport holiday inn with this tactic.

 

[lowlight]

All they have to do is hike the price for G+. Capacity solved.

Yes, but by how much? If I spent 10k for a once in a lifetime family vacation, you probably aren't going to price me out easily if I can ensure myself all the rides I want. Then you are raising the standby capacity, which just upsets more people who can't afford the new, more expensive Genie+. At least a tiered Genie+ allows some form of escape from standby.

 

[robinb]

Yes, but by how much? If I spent 10k for a once in a lifetime family vacation, you probably aren't going to price me out easily if I can ensure myself all the rides I want. Then you are raising the standby capacity, which just upsets more people who can't afford the new, more expensive Genie+. At least a tiered Genie+ allows some form of escape from standby.

Genie+ (FP, FP+) is what makes the standby line longer. Disney sells LL access to rides and then takes a bunch of LL parties to every standby line party. I've read it's an average of about 10 LL parties to every standby line party. That brings the standby line down to a crawl while the LL people enjoy a short wait.

I went on two trips with no FP/LL and it was heaven. The majority of the lines were had short to moderate waits. That's because everyone (except for the Plaids, DASers & Baby Swappers) stood in the one and only line that was being used. There wasn't a CM who would allow only a couple of parties to merge every minute.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

All they have to do is hike the price for G+. Capacity solved.

I think they could have kept FP+ and offered the additional fast passes to all guests instead of just the CL guests they did prior to Covid. If I remember correctly it was $50/day per person. At that price point you'd get quite a bit less takers than $15/day. But I'd bet revenue collected wouldn't be that far off

 

[PalmettoPath]

So since the Covid reopening/ the start of the Chapek era, there have been many consternations expressed by (primarily) the die hard Disney fanatic community. Some very founded, some perhaps not so much (as we have to acknowledge the unique issues Disney has faced due to the two above-mentioned issues).

But there is one complaint that seems to stand out and definitely deserves respect as very fair: it just takes too d-mn much out of you to plan and organize a trip now. With multiple opening times, constantly changing park hours, the reservation system, ADR changes, messing with AP's, and especially LL/G+, it is virtually impossible to just stop and enjoy yourself. It used to be you could do 90% of the planning in advance and then enjoy your park days. Now, you have to do 90% on the go while you're supposed to just be having fun.

But there is a solution as I see it...and it's arguably worse than the present:

Disney is certainly aware of the above. Now, the money may be flowing, but eventually when enough people are turned off by staring at their phones 9 hours every day when they're supposed to be relaxing, Disney may have to address this. And my fear is they will address it by introducing a new option to avoid most of the above...

They will introduce an "all inclusive" structure in which you get multiple fast passes (in advance), guaranteed park access with no rez, additional LL access BEFORE day of, earlier access to ADRs, and even a return to the meal plan. You could then just wake up whenever and enjoy your day.

So what's the catch? Obviously, the cost. This upgrade won't be free and it won't be included with your resort (ala, Universal). This "all inclusive" option will be comparable in cost to doing a VIP tour like Keys to the Kingdom every day of your stay- and it will only be available if booked for your entire stay for your entire party.

So that's my guess as to the "solution" to this issue. Want to avoid all the day-of nonsense? You got it! Now just hand the mouse that wallet...

That's the approach I was hoping for before the LL announcement came.

 

[Orsino]

The thing that struck me is that Disney keeps solving the capacity issue by upsells, which is so anti-consumer it drives me nuts. I sometimes wish I didn't own DVC so I could walk away. But then I look at rack rates and I'm glad I have DVC.

What I mean is, I was looking at dessert parties and I was stunned. To me, and maybe the desserts are better than I give them credit, the point of the dessert party is to escape crowds. Essentially, Disney focused fireworks shows so that you need to be in front of the castle to 'see the projections'. This created terrible crowds. The solution, pay money to escape the crowds.

I see the same thing with Genie+. Pay money to escape the crowds. We aren't giving any reason for Disney to reduce crowding. If anything, all the money flowing to Disney creates *incentives* for Disney to have oppressive crowds so that they get more money selling ways to avoid the crowds. We had a terrible rope drop (EE) at MK in Jan/Feb. So many rides were down that lines were crazy long. We broke down and bought a SM ILL. Disney's failures got them more money. I'm kind of mad at myself now about that. Won't make that mistake again.

Then again, maybe Disney really will kill the golden goose and two years from now the parks will be wonderful with so many swearing off Disney. One can only hope.