Thank You, Kevin, for Your Words on the Sea World Tragedy

[*NikkiBell*]

You voiced 100% of my opinions on the Sea World tragedy on this week's discussion show. I was afraid to post them because I did not want to get flamed on the thread. I also feel that this is a result of human error. I dp extend my sympathies to the family and co-workers. I was so concerned that the whale would be put down. I am glad to hear that he will still be taken care of. It is unfortunate that he has been caged and trained to perform for our entertainment. I am sure there is some minute educational benefit, but that, in my opinion, does not make up for his having to live this way.

 

[jcb]

You won't get any grief from me.

There is a great resource from a great organization on the subject.

http://www.wspa-usa.org/pages/2780_report_exposes_suffering_at_whale_and_dolphin_attractions.cfm

I should disclose that I know several folks with this organization because of a non-profit I help with so understand I am hardly neutral on the subject.

 

[Launchpad11B]

You voiced 100% of my opinions on the Sea World tragedy on this week's discussion show. I was afraid to post them because I did not want to get flamed on the thread. I also feel that this is a result of human error. I dp extend my sympathies to the family and co-workers. I was so concerned that the whale would be put down. I am glad to hear that he will still be taken care of. It is unfortunate that he has been caged and trained to perform for our entertainment. I am sure there is some minute educational benefit, but that, in my opinion, does not make up for his having to live this way.

I agree as well. Why did you think you would get flamed?

 

[Justin Jett]

I agree that this was a procedural error, but I see nothing wrong with training an animal.

Just my personal opinion

 

[auroralark]

I also agree. Well said, Kevin.

 

[Racey]

lunchpad11b - its probably because of the over-reacting posters on the board lately who dont like others having a say but love shooting people down when they dont agree with them!!

I too feel very saddened by the news of the death and hope her family come to terms with it sooner rather than later, but if you stick a huge whale in a space not big enough what do they expect to eventually happen! Oh but of course us humans are soooo cleaver and can read animals cant we!!! Why do humans think were so mentally above everything on this planet??

I know they say the trainers build up fantastic relationships with their animals but of course these animals are going to seem happy ..... how do we know any different until they show us there not happy.

I really feel for these animals and because of my own experience in seaworld i will never put money in their pockets

 

[DisneyKevin]

I agree that this was a procedural error, but I see nothing wrong with training an animal.

Just my personal opinion

I see nothing wrong with training an animal either.

That being said.....we also have to understand when the animal behaves like an animal.

There was a great deal of discussion about what would / should happen to Tilikum.

My thought process is that Tilikum acted like a whale and that NOTHING should happen to him.

Tilikum is and always will be a wild animal that has been caged for our entertainment (and some would argue...education). We need to realize and accept the repercussions and dangers inherent in interacting with and displaying a wild animal and when tragedies like this occur.....we need to accept responsibility for our failure.

 

[katscradle]

I see nothing wrong with training an animal either.

That being said.....we also have to understand when the animal behaves like an animal.

There was a great deal of discussion about what would / should happen to Tilikum.

My thought process is that Tilikum acted like a whale and that NOTHING should happen to him.

Tilikum is and always will be a wild animal that has been caged for our entertainment (and some would argue...education). We need to realize and accept the repercussions and dangers inherent in interacting with and displaying a wild animal and when tragedies like this occur.....we need to accept responsibility for our failure.

I agree 100% with what you have said both on the show and here.
Nikibell don't worry I think there are a lot us that feel the same way as you do! having said that I know I do!

 

[dalt01]

You voiced 100% of my opinions on the Sea World tragedy on this week's discussion show. I was afraid to post them because I did not want to get flamed on the thread.

i will tread lightly here........but...........whats different now..........if it is your opinion..........give it.

 

[Bornteach]

Kevin- I whole heartedly agree with you too. It is an extreme tragedy, regardless of those who say, "she knew what she was getting into."

 

[Justin Jett]

I see nothing wrong with training an animal either.

That being said.....we also have to understand when the animal behaves like an animal.

There was a great deal of discussion about what would / should happen to Tilikum.

My thought process is that Tilikum acted like a whale and that NOTHING should happen to him.

Tilikum is and always will be a wild animal that has been caged for our entertainment (and some would argue...education). We need to realize and accept the repercussions and dangers inherent in interacting with and displaying a wild animal and when tragedies like this occur.....we need to accept responsibility for our failure.

I totally agree.... The SeaWorld animals are trained, not tamed. Tilikum is a wild animal, but he is capable of love. I truly believe that.

 

[MrX8991]

I agree as well. Why did you think you would get flamed?

I think the problem is that saying it's human error would mean blaming the person who died, and most people don't take well to that kind of thing. It's just like when a kid was killed when he jumped a fence at Six Flags Over Georgia and was struck by Batman the Ride. Since the kid was the victim, some people hesitated to blame him and instead blamed Six Flags, despite it all being the kid's fault.

I too agree that this is human error, and the fact that there was even talk of killing the whale is just sickening.

 

[Launchpad11B]

lunchpad11b - its probably because of the over-reacting posters on the board lately who dont like others having a say but love shooting people down when they dont agree with them!!

What threads have you seen that type of thing on?

I think the problem is that saying it's human error would mean blaming the person who died, and most people don't take well to that kind of thing. It's just like when a kid was killed when he jumped a fence at Six Flags Over Georgia and was struck by Batman the Ride. Since the kid was the victim, some people hesitated to blame him and instead blamed Six Flags, despite it all being the kid's fault.

I too agree that this is human error, and the fact that there was even talk of killing the whale is just sickening.

I think Nikki meant she didn't feel comfortable expressing her opinion, I was just wondering why.

 

[BriarRosie]

I think Nikki meant she didn't feel comfortable expressing her opinion, I was just wondering why.

I see flaming everywhere, Paul. I think the worst offenders are on the Community Board, though. I can understand why Nikki would think that. It crossed my mind, too.

 

[SamIAm21]

I agree with Kevin 100% It was a horrible tragedy, accident, but in no way was it the animal's fault. They don't act with malice, only out of instinct, and to punish it or euthanize it as some "reactionaries" have suggested is uncalled for. He can't be set free at this point, but contact with him should be as minimized as possible. As much as I enjoy seeing these creatures up close (as I would have no other ability to do so any other way), maybe it is time we reexamine keeping such majestic creatures penned up their whole life.

As a child, my brothers brought home a wolf puppy they found in the woods, who was malnourished and alone, which is unusual for wolves. Of course, they wanted to keep it as if it were a German Shephard or something. We did keep it for a day or two and it was wonderful to hold, feed and "love-on" such a beautiful creature, but we contacted our local Brookfield Zoo and given that it was too young to survive without pack protection, he was gladly accepted and lived a wonderful life at Brookfield. The zoo assumed something had happened to the mother. I remember going to see "Shadow" many times as a child. My father explained that while he might be a loving companion for a while, at some point, a wild animal is just that, wild. It had instincts that would far outweigh any sense of loyalty it may have to us. There's always the element of danger.

I hope Tillikum lives out his days in peace and is not branded with title of murderer.

 

[Launchpad11B]

I see flaming everywhere, Paul. I think the worst offenders are on the Community Board, though. I can understand why Nikki would think that. It crossed my mind, too.

OK, now I get it. I thought she meant on the unplugged board.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

Once again, my opinions were expressed by Kevin's post above.

I am very sensitive when it comes to animals. I cannot watch any type of harm come to them whether it is something "staged" in a comic film in the theaters or news reports of animal abuse. I get very upset about these types of things.

Personally, I feel that the whale is a wild animal and nothing should happen to him because he was just acting out his instincts. Saying this on a public message board could have led to my getting flamed because some people may have felt I was being insensitive to the victim and/or her family's loss.

Paul, I have absolutely no problem sharing my opinions here; I'd think you knew that by now. I was not uncomfortable doing so either. However, I honestly did not want to post something that could have been even mildly controversial on a subject so sensitive to me. I have stayed away from the original thread as a result with the exception of a very brief post early on. I felt posting my thoughts on this would turn into a heated debate and, more than likely, something causing flames. It's happened here on the Unplugged boards before (not necessarily involving me --- just saying in general) or on the community boards and all message board sites on the Net. I just didn't have the energy to waste on it this week.

dalt - What's different now? Hmm. I guess now that the viewpoint I hold was shared publicly on the show, I felt that the chances of flames happening after I discussed it were less likely.

 

[dalt01]

dalt - What's different now? Hmm. I guess now that the viewpoint I hold was shared publicly on the show, I felt that the chances of flames happening after I discussed it were less likely.

point taken..........i myself dont worry about it cause i feel someone could come on here with a cure for cancer and somebody..................somebody................would find a reason to take a shot at them. that is why i said that i was treading lightly.....you are a very respected member of this community and i did not want you to think i was flaming.

 

[AnninIowa]

Anderson Cooper has been having a lot of discussions about this on his show on CNN; last night Jack Hanna was on again talking about it. I don't agree with going out and capturing animals out of the wild and putting them in shows. This particular whale was taken in by SeaWorld from another park in Canada that had captured him as a baby. I believe (may be wrong) that the vast majority of animals at SeaWorld (and all of the orca whales) have been born into captivity, not taken from the wild (with the exception of Tilly). However, their natural instincts remain and what happened wasn't the whales fault or the trainers fault. It was just a horrible accident that hopefully can be examined so it never happens again.

I am a big animal lover and 95% of the time a vegetarian (hey, I live in Iowa - they put meat in the water up here, LOL). I have been to zoos and aquariums where I ended up in tears seeing how the animals were treated. Busch Gardens and SeaWorld are the only two places I have been (besides Disney's AK - but of course you hardly see any animals there, LOL) that I really believe treats their animals very well. Do I think the whales and dolphins should be trained to perform in the shows? I can't lie - I have sat at those shows and loved every minute of them. The tricks they do often correspond to the trainers and vets being able to be close to them to give them medical treatment.

Am I happy to see the trainers standing on the whales and riding them around? No. I don't like the dolphin encounters where people can grab the fins and be pulled along. SeaWorld does a LOT of good with marine life. They've made huge strides in helping to keep manatees from going extinct. I think there is a middle ground SeaWorld can find - obviously these animals have been in captivity so long that they can't go back into the wild, but I think it's time to get the trainers out of the water, at least with Shamu!

Just my two cents!

 

[Racey]

What threads have you seen that type of thing on?

They are old news argumentative posts and i'm not going to bring them up now - perhaps I was unlucky and just found the posts which went sour that day All I can say is people on ALL INTERNET chat boards should remember that people dont always come accross the way they want to when writing it down

Getting back on subject .... i'm glad alot of you feel that it should be remembered that these are wild animals and caged for our entertainment. For some reason I got the impression most people on this board were up for putting the whale down - dont know why I thought that.