Texas

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I participated in a protest at our state capital over pensions a few years ago. We were constantly moving around to different areas as we met up with people we knew, or to get a better view. We did not stand in one place for very long even though we were there for several hours.

Ours were concentrated mostly in one area-a shopping district that closed down all the shops (for safety) for days and days. Some branched out but the largest was there. The one in my city was in our little downtown area and was more family friendly. People stayed there for hours but as the vibe was different there was a different type of experience.

No one is saying you can't be there for a short time as in you choose to be but that's isn't what everyone does and as the comparison was brought up with the choir it was as if no one would ever be standing next to each other for a while; people def. did stand next to each other for an extended period of time. There were def. absolutely 100% people there standing together for hours on end. So I guess in response to the other post "don't know what to tell you" (general you).

 

[penn19]

Not sure what to tell you. In New York, our protests were completely safe, and you were very rarely with the same people for more than a few minutes.

Unless you owned a business. Then maybe not so safe.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Unless you owned a business. Then maybe not so safe.

Our businesses weren't open then, largely.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

New York is still under a 1% positive testing rate. The protests were not responsible for any spread.

Not sure what to tell you. In New York, our protests were completely safe, and you were very rarely with the same people for more than a few minutes.

I wouldn't go that far. There are known cases where people have done everything right (worn masks, washed hands, limited public trips to only necessities) and still ended up contracting Covid. It's pretty basic reasoning that exposing yourself to groups of people will lead to an increased risk of transmission among those attending. Yes, the protests had a lot going for them to lower the risk factors but the risk is still above 0.

Now, are the protests responsible for the spikes in cases we're seeing in Arizona, Texas, Georgia, etc? I've seen no data to support that and quite a bit that challenges it so I would say no. I think those making those claims should consider their own biases to better understand why they believe it.

 

[Imzadi]

Not sure what to tell you. In New York, our protests were completely safe, and you were very rarely with the same people for more than a few minutes.

That's not the protests I saw in NYC or the people I saw interviewed. I live in midtown. I had to tune into the live, local news to find out where they were any given hour. I couldn't make it to Home Depot for 5 days in a row as the protestors kept either marching by there, or were camped out somewhere close to there, near Madison Park in the flat iron area, or near me in Times Square, so I couldn't get on the subway, or they were marching along the different avenues, and I'd cross into them at some point. Many of them were NOT wearing masks. One of the reasons I didn't want to come up from the subway and run right into the group of protestors.

Many of them stayed for hours, marching from Barclays Center right to Manhattan. Or marching from Manhattan down to Barclays. They rarely took the same route every day, except to cross the Brooklyn or Manhattan Bridge. They wanted to blanket the city on different days. A couple days they went up to Gracie Mansion and back down to Barclays.

People didn't just stay for 10 minutes and leave. How would they keep the lines moving? How would people know where to catch up with them? They made it up from lower Manhattan, near Police Plaza and ended up at 50th St and 5th Ave in 40 minutes one day.

Each night, they stayed for hours past curfew at Barclays.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

That's not the protests I saw in NYC or the people I saw interviewed. I live in midtown. I had to tune into the live, local news to find out where they were any given hour. I couldn't make it to Home Depot for 5 days in a row as the protestors kept either marching by there, or were camped out somewhere close to there, near Madison Park in the flat iron area, or near me in Times Square, so I couldn't get on the subway, or they were marching along the different avenues, and I'd cross into them at some point. Many of them were NOT wearing masks. One of the reasons I didn't want to come up from the subway and run right into the group of protestors.

Many of them stayed for hours, marching from Barclays Center right to Manhattan. Or marching from Manhattan down to Barclays. They rarely took the same route every day, except to cross the Brooklyn or Manhattan Bridge. They wanted to blanket the city on different days. A couple days they went up to Gracie Mansion and back down to Barclays.

People didn't just stay for 10 minutes and leave. How would they keep the lines moving? How would people know where to catch up with them? They made it up from lower Manhattan, near Police Plaza and ended up at 50th St and 5th Ave in 40 minutes one day.

Each night, they stayed for hours past curfew at Barclays.

And we've had no uptick in cases. What's your point?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This is why I made sure to say spikes. Not everything is spike this spike that. Something can lead to cases but not in a significant amount that the health department labels it a spike, some may not to even lead to what is considered an outbreak (which varies place to place in what is considered an outbreak). That in itself does not mean it doesn't lead to any cases (of which that varies from place to place). Robust or at least much better than before contact tracing can certainly shed more light than in previous months where we weren't tracking that stuff to the level we are trying to do now.

 

[Imzadi]

I wouldn't go that far. There are known cases where people have done everything right (worn masks, washed hands, limited public trips to only necessities) and still ended up contracting Covid. It's pretty basic reasoning that exposing yourself to groups of people will lead to an increased risk of transmission among those attending. Yes, the protests had a lot going for them to lower the risk factors but the risk is still above 0.

Yes, NYC had 28,864 people tested yesterday. 316 positives. Yet, no spiking.

 

[Imzadi]

3. Short exposure/long exposure. Protestors weren't standing around for hours with the same people

Not sure what to tell you. In New York, our protests were completely safe, and you were very rarely with the same people for more than a few minutes.

That's not how protests work. You're constantly around different people.

And we've had no uptick in cases. What's your point?

My point is how you described the protests in NYC didn't happen that way. There is LOTS of archived news footage on YouTube showing it more like the way Mackenzie Click-Mickelson described.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

My point is how you described the protests in NYC didn't happen that way. There is LOTS of archived news footage on YouTube describing it more like the way Mackenzie Click-Mickelson described.

OK, I live here and saw it live, but whatever.

 

[dclpluto]

If people would have just worn masks.... very sad and disheartening. Anything now is definitely too little, too late.

It’s never too late to turn things around, recover. Unravel the path to confound.

of course we can’t turn back time but we can turn things around and do what is right. New York and New Jersey are two examples who didn’t get it right in the beginning but have turn things around.

 

[HashberryOTG]

Went out yesterday for groceries. Realized after we left I was starving and didn't want to buy the whole store, so we looked for a place to grab lunch. I was (happily) surprised at how few dining rooms were open in my town. Other than a Universal mini vacation before this latest Covid blowup, we generally stay inside (barring walks), leaving only to grab what we need. So I don't know if these dining rooms were never re-opened, or recently re-closed. Found a Jason's Deli that had great rules implemented. Grocery store was about dunno, 70% or so mask usage if I had to guestimate. Higher than the last couple of times. Grocery is over the county line where masks are not required in biz. Also stopped at Dunkin. They had a big ole sign very nicely saying if you don't put on a mask hit the drive thru. Best wording I'd seen, very nonconfrontational.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

OK, I live here and saw it live, but whatever.

I could say the same about my area. But you told me "that's not how protests work"

 

[Imzadi]

Went out yesterday for groceries. Realized after we left I was starving and didn't want to buy the whole store, so we looked for a place to grab lunch. I was (happily) surprised at how few dining rooms were open in my town. Other than a Universal mini vacation before this latest Covid blowup, we generally stay inside (barring walks), leaving only to grab what we need. So I don't know if these dining rooms were never re-opened, or recently re-closed. Found a Jason's Deli that had great rules implemented. Grocery store was about dunno, 70% or so mask usage if I had to guestimate. Higher than the last couple of times. Grocery is over the county line where masks are not required in biz. Also stopped at Dunkin. They had a big ole sign very nicely saying if you don't put on a mask hit the drive thru. Best wording I'd seen, very nonconfrontational.

Is your state doing a phased reopening? The dining rooms just might not be re-opened yet. Also, some places are waiting for business to pick back up before bringing back in staff that they have to pay.

 

[HashberryOTG]

No, it's Texas. They're allowed to open, but back at 50% instead of the 75. We just don't eat out enough to know if some of those dining rooms recently re-closed, or simply never re-opened. We have done a little takeout and some delivery, but that was about it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Also stopped at Dunkin. They had a big ole sign very nicely saying if you don't put on a mask hit the drive thru. Best wording I'd seen, very nonconfrontational.

I think that's a decent way of saying it too. Not saying "don't patronize" but rather "we'd prefer it if you did it this way if XYZ"

 

[aggiedog]

Second, we are hearing reports that some of the hospitals in the states with these spikes are close to being overwhelmed. I've seen news interviews where many of the traveling nurses that came to help us in NYC are now in AZ and TX. They are saying where they are now is exactly like another "NYC" for them, with cases close to capacity. People can't get proper treatment when there are not enough beds or ventilators or healthcare workers available.

My business partners have many physician friends practicing in Houston. As of Friday it didn't sound good. No ICU beds left in the Medical Center - that's 21 hospitals. General wards are being converted into ICU facilities. Texas Children's hospital is taking adults for Covid and non-Covid wards.

 

[godisney14]

It’s never too late to turn things around, recover. Unravel the path to confound.

of course we can’t turn back time but we can turn things around and do what is right. New York and New Jersey are to examples who didn’t get it right in the beginning but have turn things around.

The governors there compared with governors of FL and TX think a little differently.

 

[Heather07438]

There was a study done by the National Bureau of Economic Research, which used data on protests from more than 300 of the largest US cities, and found no evidence that coronavirus cases grew in the weeks following the beginning of the protests.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/coronavirus-cases-protests-black-lives-matter-trnd/index.html

I wonder if it isn't the physiology of the protestors that kept the COVID-19 out of their lungs. The anger/outrage of the protestors, along with all the often fast shouting, being outdoors, keeping in constant movement or marching, sometimes being baton beaten or brutalized by the police they were protesting against, it kept the protestors pretty much in high adrenaline, higher cardio states. They were probably breathing quickly & shallowly. Maybe so quickly & shallowly that the COVID-19 didn't go deep and penetrate or get a chance to stick to their lungs?

Contrast that with an incident I heard a few months ago about a choir in Washington state, (I think?) There was something like 62 choir members. About 49 of them all came down with the Coronavirus, even though they were all socially distancing. (Mask wearing wasn't a thing yet.) They're all relaxed and happy, so their heart beat is regular. They are taking deeper breaths and letting it out slowly while singing. So the COVID got a chance to move slower in the lungs and stick.

Interesting.

I expected smokers to be identified as a very high risk group by now. For all the ways smokers' health is more vulnerable, I haven't heard that they've been hit much harder (beside lifelong smokers already exhibiting illness like heart disease, COPD, etc.) Could nicotine be offsetting the other risks? Possibly competing for receptors so the viral load is lessened and less ability to replicate? Something else going on? Nothing going on? https://hospitalhealthcare.com/covid-19/are-smokers-protected-from-covid-19/

These may be far out ideas, but interesting to watch because they didn't play out as expected. Did other things beside mask wearing help protesters? Outside, sure. Short exposure rates to each other, possibly. Adrenaline? Other hormones or enzymes that change in that environment? Young adults in cities maybe have high exposure rates already (like 30%+)? etc?

 

[dclpluto]

The governors there compared with governors of FL and TX think a little differently.

yep New York and New Jersey was doing it wrong in the beginning while Florida and Texas was doing it right. Now it’s the other way around. They need to learn from each state mistakes and what they did right.They all can learn and save lives and open the
Economy safely.