Texas to open 100%

[Cheburashka]

Anybody who has an issue with Texas removing state-wide COVID mandates should not travel to Texas. Same for other states that have done the same. It's pretty simple.

Unless you happen to live here...

 

[mom2rtk]

A reasonable assumption. Altered possibly by how much individual mitigation efforts have been followed by individuals in spite of the state's overall health laxity. Even though FL most likely has an older age population than CA, those same older FL citizens may have been more vigilant in their personal mitigations, knowing the weighted consequences of lax personal mitigation efforts As an old guy here, even though I am a resident of a fairly 'tough state' I have been very vigilant in doing all I can do to mitigate my own risks.

But does the state NEED to mandate certain measures if people are following them on their own and numbers are in line?

I mean, I hope our local government doesn't ditch ours too soon. But if it's working there? I'm for the least restrictive program that gets the job done. And I don't believe any of us get a say unless we live there.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But does the state NEED to mandate certain measures if people are following them on their own and numbers are in line?

I mean, I hope our local government doesn't ditch ours too soon. But if it's working there? I'm for the least restrictive program that gets the job done. And I don't believe any of us get a say unless we live there.

I'm interested to see what happens as March 31st comes around. If KS drops the state of emergency and the mask mandate with it will JoCo continue with it or just drop it? Because if JoCo drops it...there will be pressure on the other side of the state line to do it (well maybe not KCMO but the other counties). I do think our metro as a whole will likely keep up masking for at least a little while if mask mandates are dropped.

 

[Southernmiss]

Unless you happen to live here...

Exactly. I'm in Mississippi. Our state's execitive order mask mandate expired at 5 pm. The governor did not want to issue another. Texas' doesn't officially change until 3/10.

I believe it's premature. Our recent numbers were affected by a week of over half of the state closed due to weather.

I encountered a person yesterday with active covid who had to bring something to me. We were masked(me double) had a window between us (she remained outside) and she wore gloves to hand me a document. Our interaction was less than 1 minute. I immediately sprayed it with disinfectant, washed my hands, and left the document on a table until today.

Our numbers haven't yet stabilized after the week of weather. Ticking up this week. But hospitalizations have declined.

It's political. Always has been. Local mayors are today still encouraging the public to wear masks, social distance, and wash hands, but only mandating masks in schools and government offices, leaving the decision to mandate masks up to the businesses. Jackson and Hattiesburg mayors have continued a mask mandate for their cities.

There are still some indoor arena capacity limits and a few other gathering limits.

So many people are excited that things are getting back to 'normal'. I had conversation with 3 different people who are excited.
They're older and have been vaccinated.

Vaccines became available for teachers yesterday. Yay! In person learning has been on the entire school year.

Meanwhile, I am not eligible for a vaccine, yet. The governor announced today that really soon those 50+ will be able to get vaccinated. Until then, I am double masking when in public and actually pulling back on my going out and retreating similar to when it all began last year until I can get fully vaccinated because I can only control myself and don't trust my fellow citizens.

I believe 6 weeks more of mandated masks while vaccines roll out would have been fair.

I was so disappointed yesterday, but not surprised.

Dh and I were out last weekend at Best Buy and Home Depot. Very few people were wearing masks correctly- below the nose and hanging on the chin.

We ate outdoors and a table in earshot had a dad and 2 sons whose wife/mom were in Covid ICU.

Our state really hasn't 'shut down', just capacity limits and a mask mandate. Most places have been busy as ever for months.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

It's interesting data for sure but a couple points:
1. Your data should be cases per 100k, not totals. California has twice as many people so having more cases isn't a surprise.
2. Many businesses/counties in Florida had mask mandates even if the state didn't.

I think it's interesting to look at cases per 100k as that shows some pretty clear correlation between how aggressive states were in handling this and their results:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
View attachment 560275

Let me add a third point. We shouldn't be cherry picking and looking at just two states. That isn't how we do any meaningful analysis. That is how they cherry pick to try and push a narrative. And you are right. when we look at all the states ranked by cases per million, it's pretty definitive that the states that did more, did better to a large extent with a few exceptions.

Per your point two you are right. If we look at what happened early, California, Washington, and the Northeast centered in New York City got the virus first. But California got locked down before New York. And that cost the latter along with the nursing home debacle. California's numbers didn't sky rocket and hence, they got the curve flattened. New York didn't. And their death toll sky rocketed. California's didn't. So if all California's shelter in place accomplished is delaying things until we got better at treating it, that alone saved many lives. So. We can't say that California's measures did nothing.

Even the cherry picking of California vs Florida doesn't work when you look at the fact that many localities in Florida where a huge chunk of the population lives did in fact take measures against Covid sometimes to the chagrin of the state. And when you consider the fact that California surged after they attempted to relax restrictions, it isn't an indication that restrictions didn't work. It'[s an indication that trying to lift them too quickly didn't work. That is not an indication that restrictions didn't work. On the contrary, it's an indication that they in fact did. The narrative relies not just on cherry picking though. It relies on the fiction that California was the lock down capital of the world the whole time and Florida did nothing. In fact on the grand scheme of things, if you count the local restrictions, Florida did a lot more than some of the top states on the list, not less. Oh and the state of Florida didn't just do nothing either.
Still further, if we look at testing numbers, California has about 215,000 more tests per million than does Florida who has about 215 more tests per million than does Texas.

But the simple reality is we as a nation did terribly. We're 7th in cases per million. 2 of the countries ahead of us are microstates and one is an oversees territory of Great Britain. The others are Czechia, Montenegro, and Slovenia. We are 10th in deaths per million.

Oh and that reminds me. Sweden, the darling of the let's do nothing, covid is a plandemic types. First it was oh Sweden is killing it. Then when I informed them that Sweden relative to its similar nordic neighbors was not doing well, it was Oh we can't really know how they did now. check back in three months. Same result. Check back in 6 months. same result. Check back in a year. Well. It's a year and they haven't got back to me on that. How bout we check huh?
Country. Deaths per million, cases per million
Sweden 1,278 66.587
Denmark 408 36,652
Norway 116 13,381
Finland 137 10, 717

Oh, that's why they haven't gotten back to me. Same result again. So that example still doesn't work either.
The Nordic countries that did more, fared better.

 

[neverlandsky]

California and Florida can’t be compared. California is different from Florida because California is more of an international traveling hub then Florida will ever be. Especially with LAX, SFO, LAS, PHX, SEA-TAC, DEN international airports. These airports beat MIA and MCO. Florida is a destination. Where California is a destination and layover connections with neighboring States who also have international airports. California is also hop, skip, and jump drive wise to Canada, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Mexico, and even Texas.

 

[Pyotr]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1367275557742931971

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

California and Florida can’t be compared. California is different from Florida because California is more of an international traveling hub then Florida will ever be. Especially with LAX, SFO, LAS, PHX, SEA-TAC, DEN international airports. These airports beat MIA and MCO. Florida is a destination. Where California is a destination and layover connections with neighboring States who also have international airports. California is also hop, skip, and jump drive wise to Canada, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Mexico, and even Texas.

I think it needs to be mentioned, that FL is a tourist destination, and CA has locked down theme parks and other tourist areas. In FL, WDW and Universal both open, beaches opened, etc...so we get people coming in to vacation. If they catch COVID here, but are dx at home, they are reported...at home. Not in FL numbers. So, we could be having outbreaks in areas, and not even really know it, because people aren't here when they test positive.

 

[ENJDisneyFan]

The lack of a statewide mandate doesn't really mean much other than the state doesn't want to govern at that level and would prefer to allow local municipalities to make decisions (hopefully) more thoughtfully. In a huge state like Texas that actually makes a lot of sense. There may be some counties or cities with much less community spread, in which restrictions can be slightly less, versus the more urban areas that may need to proceed more cautiously. That's exactly what the Michigan legislature is fighting for - more local control.

 

[sam_gordon]

Per your point two you are right. If we look at what happened early, California, Washington, and the Northeast centered in New York City got the virus first. But California got locked down before New York. And that cost the latter along with the nursing home debacle. California's numbers didn't sky rocket and hence, they got the curve flattened. New York didn't. And their death toll sky rocketed. California's didn't. So if all California's shelter in place accomplished is delaying things until we got better at treating it, that alone saved many lives. So. We can't say that California's measures did nothing.

California's curve flattened and NY didn't, huh? Their cases per capita are pretty close. CA: 90k/million, NY: 87k/million. CA did much better in deaths: 1.3k/mil compared to NY's 2.4k/mil.

Even the cherry picking of California vs Florida doesn't work when you look at the fact that many localities in Florida where a huge chunk of the population lives did in fact take measures against Covid sometimes to the chagrin of the state. And when you consider the fact that California surged after they attempted to relax restrictions, it isn't an indication that restrictions didn't work. It'[s an indication that trying to lift them too quickly didn't work. That is not an indication that restrictions didn't work. On the contrary, it's an indication that they in fact did. The narrative relies not just on cherry picking though. It relies on the fiction that California was the lock down capital of the world the whole time and Florida did nothing. In fact on the grand scheme of things, if you count the local restrictions, Florida did a lot more than some of the top states on the list, not less. Oh and the state of Florida didn't just do nothing either.
Still further, if we look at testing numbers, California has about 215,000 more tests per million than does Florida who has about 215 more tests per million than does Texas.

So Florida would be an example of the state not having to push mandates because businesses and localities took care of it. And that can't happen anywhere else?

And why are you bringing up Sweden? No one's been talking about there for what, six months or more? I guess that's because "you informed them" of how bad Sweden was doing.

 

[sam_gordon]

California and Florida can’t be compared. California is different from Florida because California is more of an international traveling hub then Florida will ever be. Especially with LAX, SFO, LAS, PHX, SEA-TAC, DEN international airports. These airports beat MIA and MCO. Florida is a destination. Where California is a destination and layover connections with neighboring States who also have international airports. California is also hop, skip, and jump drive wise to Canada, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Mexico, and even Texas.

I'm in Kentucky. Kentucky is not a domestic traveling hub much less an international one. It's also not much of a tourist destination. We've had a mask mandate from the beginning, spent at least a couple of weeks if not a month with non-essential businesses closed, still under restrictions on how many can be in a restaurant, etc.

Per capita, we have had more cases per capita than California and Florida (we're smack in the middle at #25). But we're #41 in deaths.

This virus, along with the steps to try to fight it, have not followed logic.

 

[mrs. magoo]

This is another great example of Federalism at work. States can make their own decisions on what is best for their state and localities and private businesses can make their own decisions as well. My guess is the people who are currently wearing masking in Texas will continue to wear masks when they enter businesses. Here in NY(Not NYC) I wear a mask when teaching and entering businesses. I take my mask off when outside and can social distance. At some point states need to reopen and Texas has decided that now is that time. It will be interesting to see what professional sports teams do since they are private businesses and can still put caps on attendance.

 

[mrodgers]

I am curious...

Dh and I were out last weekend at Best Buy and Home Depot. Very few people were wearing masks correctly- below the nose and hanging on the chin.

When you walked in and saw this, did you turn around and walk out or did you continue on your way and shop at both of these places intermingling with those people without or wearing masks incorrectly? Why did you stay and continue to shop (I assume you did?)

We ate outdoors and a table in earshot had a dad and 2 sons whose wife/mom were in Covid ICU.

When you heard this from someone within earshot, did you stand up and leave or did you stay seated and have your meal? Why did you stay seated near them and continue your meal (I assume you did?)

 

[mom2rtk]

I think it needs to be mentioned, that FL is a tourist destination, and CA has locked down theme parks and other tourist areas. In FL, WDW and Universal both open, beaches opened, etc...so we get people coming in to vacation. If they catch COVID here, but are dx at home, they are reported...at home. Not in FL numbers. So, we could be having outbreaks in areas, and not even really know it, because people aren't here when they test positive.

But doesn't having all of those things locked down also mean that CA isn't the tourist destination right now that the PP said it was?

 

[Southernmiss]

I am curious...


When you walked in and saw this, did you turn around and walk out or did you continue on your way and shop at both of these places intermingling with those people without or wearing masks incorrectly? Why did you stay and continue to shop (I assume you did?)


When you heard this from someone within earshot, did you stand up and leave or did you stay seated and have your meal? Why did you stay seated near them and continue your meal (I assume you did?)

Best Buy and Home Depot- we maintained a great distance between us, as one can do in those stores. At least 20 feet. The people not wearing masks properly came in after us. We conducted our business as quickly as possible and left.

Restaurant-we were waiting on the waitress they were speaking to to give us our check. We were eating outside at a patio table. Yes, we left immediately after paying. Again, a distance of at least 20 feet between us.

We felt ok with those distances, my point was to indicate what people were doing, even with mandates. We have had to be keenly aware of others around us and watch our own interactions.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

This is another great example of Federalism at work. States can make their own decisions on what is best for their state and localities and private businesses can make their own decisions as well. My guess is the people who are currently wearing masking in Texas will continue to wear masks when they enter businesses. Here in NY(Not NYC) I wear a mask when teaching and entering businesses. I take my mask off when outside and can social distance. At some point states need to reopen and Texas has decided that now is that time. It will be interesting to see what professional sports teams do since they are private businesses and can still put caps on attendance.

It's also a great example of the problems with it. We don't have rigid state borders but the regulations vary state to state. Regulations in Illinois don't mean much if you border Wisconsin as a portion of the population is jumping over there to dine/party/etc. In the middle of last year you could actually see cases increase county by county in states around Wisconsin due to their reopening. It was fascinating.

Out of the 50 states, Hawaii has had the lowest numbers and I would argue it's because they actually have a bubble without the influence of surrounding states.

I'll concede in advance that this could also be viewed as "no reason to have stricter rules because one of your neighbors is going to screw it up" and it would be a completely logical argument.

 

[hsmamato2]

20.7% of adults (just under 53 million) have at least one vaccine shot.

haha I admit I haven't checked in a while

 

[hsmamato2]

Let me add a third point. We shouldn't be cherry picking and looking at just two states. That isn't how we do any meaningful analysis. That is how they cherry pick to try and push a narrative. And you are right. when we look at all the states ranked by cases per million, it's pretty definitive that the states that did more, did better to a large extent with a few exceptions.

Per your point two you are right. If we look at what happened early, California, Washington, and the Northeast centered in New York City got the virus first. But California got locked down before New York. And that cost the latter along with the nursing home debacle. California's numbers didn't sky rocket and hence, they got the curve flattened. New York didn't. And their death toll sky rocketed. California's didn't. So if all California's shelter in place accomplished is delaying things until we got better at treating it, that alone saved many lives. So. We can't say that California's measures did nothing.

Even the cherry picking of California vs Florida doesn't work when you look at the fact that many localities in Florida where a huge chunk of the population lives did in fact take measures against Covid sometimes to the chagrin of the state. And when you consider the fact that California surged after they attempted to relax restrictions, it isn't an indication that restrictions didn't work. It'[s an indication that trying to lift them too quickly didn't work. That is not an indication that restrictions didn't work. On the contrary, it's an indication that they in fact did. The narrative relies not just on cherry picking though. It relies on the fiction that California was the lock down capital of the world the whole time and Florida did nothing. In fact on the grand scheme of things, if you count the local restrictions, Florida did a lot more than some of the top states on the list, not less. Oh and the state of Florida didn't just do nothing either.
Still further, if we look at testing numbers, California has about 215,000 more tests per million than does Florida who has about 215 more tests per million than does Texas.

But the simple reality is we as a nation did terribly. We're 7th in cases per million. 2 of the countries ahead of us are microstates and one is an oversees territory of Great Britain. The others are Czechia, Montenegro, and Slovenia. We are 10th in deaths per million.

Oh and that reminds me. Sweden, the darling of the let's do nothing, covid is a plandemic types. First it was oh Sweden is killing it. Then when I informed them that Sweden relative to its similar nordic neighbors was not doing well, it was Oh we can't really know how they did now. check back in three months. Same result. Check back in 6 months. same result. Check back in a year. Well. It's a year and they haven't got back to me on that. How bout we check huh?
Country. Deaths per million, cases per million
Sweden 1,278 66.587
Denmark 408 36,652
Norway 116 13,381
Finland 137 10, 717

Oh, that's why they haven't gotten back to me. Same result again. So that example still doesn't work either.
The Nordic countries that did more, fared better.

All of this is logical

I think it needs to be mentioned, that FL is a tourist destination, and CA has locked down theme parks and other tourist areas. In FL, WDW and Universal both open, beaches opened, etc...so we get people coming in to vacation. If they catch COVID here, but are dx at home, they are reported...at home. Not in FL numbers. So, we could be having outbreaks in areas, and not even really know it, because people aren't here when they test positive.

THIS. Right here. I truly feel that parsing our nation up into states to try to figure out "who's doing it best" is the big mistake,and ignoring the whole picture (for our country) since all states have free travel anywhere within them,(maybe some guidelines that aren't enforceable for travel but overall) then this statement is also logical. And most likely true.

 

[dreamer17555]

Some of those saying things like- people can stock up on groceries, get them delivered, etc is forgetting many people cannot afford to stock up and live paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford grocery delivery and might be needing public transportation just to get to a store. Unless masks are required for public transportation even the act of getting to a store puts those people at risk.

 

[AvidDisReader]

haha I admit I haven't checked in a while

Those number are off. In checking it is now:
Vaccine doses overview

From Our World in Data · Updated less than 2 days ago
United States

Doses given	Fully vaccinated	% of population fully vaccinated
80.5M

27M

8.21%