Testing refusal rates in your district

[nugov2]

I don't agree if teachers are directly telling the kids in their classrooms that they should refuse the tests because the teacher's job might be in jeopardy. I'm not in the classroom so I don't know if that's really going on, but I hope not. I am for educating the parents about how the students are being tested to death instead of allowing for creative learning, and letting the parents make the decision whether or not they want their child to take the test. I think teachers should be as vocal as they can be without losing their job. If you (general you) don't agree with that, then we'll have to agree to disagree. It's extremely competitive to get hired as a teacher and I do think most teachers love their students and do their best in the classroom to help them learn, but I don't think they should be expected to put their career on the line for a decision that wasn't theirs to begin with.

That is their choice on if they want to put their job on the line, but either way they should not use the same people they are fighting for as pawns. If you turn a blind eye to that issue you are doing a disservice to everyone involved. Educating the parents is only a small part of the issue and honestly will be for nothing if NY continues in the direction they are headed and the rest of the country tests relatively well, and let's face it we know the test results will be spun in a positive way next year and they will push on. It is going to be a few years before PARCC goes away.

I also disagree that we cannot teach creatively and test students. I agree the number of tests is beyond ridiculous but many districts across the country still use creative lessons. That is yet another cop out that is just not true everywhere.

 

[zoemurr]

I was wondering how it is the teacher's don't know what is on the test either. If we have implemented CC standards and all 5th graders across the state are expected to know X,Y and Z, doesn't the test reflect what they should be learning in the classroom? Also, how to they teach to the test (a very common argument) when they don't know what is on the test?
I mentioned my friend is a teacher in the other thread, but I didn't ask her because she clearly was upset about it and I didn't want to upset her even more.
FTR, I do not support the way these tests are being used to evaluate the teachers, but I did not opt my child out.

My feeling is that they know what *should* be on the test, but the questions don't reflect the standards. When teachers collectively can't figure out what the answers to these tests are there is a problem.

Having said all of that I did not opt my son out. I agree that the children should not be involved in this debate.

I don't understand why if CC is national, why aren't the tests? If they all should be learning the same material shouldn't they be judged by the same standards?

 

[Kbee]

I don't agree if teachers are directly telling the kids in their classrooms that they should refuse the tests because the teacher's job might be in jeopardy. I'm not in the classroom so I don't know if that's really going on, but I hope not. I am for educating the parents about how the students are being tested to death instead of allowing for creative learning, and letting the parents make the decision whether or not they want their child to take the test. I think teachers should be as vocal as they can be without losing their job. If you (general you) don't agree with that, then we'll have to agree to disagree. It's extremely competitive to get hired as a teacher and I do think most teachers love their students and do their best in the classroom to help them learn, but I don't think they should be expected to put their career on the line for a decision that wasn't theirs to begin with.

Yes we will have to agree to disagree because if a teacher isn't willing to fight for their own job, I don't see any reason that I should have my child fight for it for them instead.

 

[sam_gordon]

Then the test scores came out this Fall. My honor roll 6th grader scored a 2 on the ELA test. She was taken out of her Technology class and put into an AIS ELA class. She has a 93 average in ELA. Her teacher and principal agreed that she didn't need to be in the AIS class but it's state mandated that kids that score under a certain number need Academic Intervention Services. It's absolutely ridiculous. I understand using the test scores as a part of the equation. It shouldn't however, be the only thing they look at. It's a complete waste of resources.

I don't know if this is the case, but just reading this post makes me wonder if the "honor roll" classes are teaching "honor roll" lessons that equate to what's being taught in other schools around the country. Who determines what qualifies (speaking lessons, not kids) as "honor roll"? Wouldn't that be the benefit of having a national (or state) standard?

 

[Dawnlight]

Last year I told my kids they had to take the tests even though many students in our district weren't taking them. I said too bad, sometimes life isn't fair and have to do things you don't want to do. Just do your best it'snot a big deal.

Then the test scores came out this Fall. My honor roll 6th grader scored a 2 on the ELA test. She was taken out of her Technology class and put into an AIS ELA class. She has a 93 average in ELA. Her teacher and principal agreed that she didn't need to be in the AIS class but it's state mandated that kids that score under a certain number need Academic Intervention Services. It's absolutely ridiculous. I understand using the test scores as a part of the equation. It shouldn't however, be the only thing they look at. It's a complete waste of resources.

I have another child that struggles in school and is in AIS classes. He's not getting as much help as he used to in those classes because there are now so many kids in the class that the teacher is spread thin. It used to be a small group of kids, now it's almost the size of a regular class.

And this is exactly what the large CC companies are striving for. They put the bar up high enough that many more students don't reach the achievement levels, then they market remedial materials to the schools. Big, big money- all at the expense of our students (and taxpayers).

 

[Kbee]

I don't know if this is the case, but just reading this post makes me wonder if the "honor roll" classes are teaching "honor roll" lessons that equate to what's being taught in other schools around the country. Who determines what qualifies (speaking lessons, not kids) as "honor roll"? Wouldn't that be the benefit of having a national (or state) standard?

(Here) To be on the honor roll a student must maintain an overall average of 91-94, high honor roll is 95-100. They aren't taking different classes so the lessons aren't "honor roll" lessons.
Honors classes is a separate thing than Honor Roll.

 

[deedeetoo]

I agree that the kids are being used as pawns. Every time someone uses the phrase "high stakes testing" on this thread or in linked articles, I cringe. The one issue with AIS aside ( and I agree that is an issue) this testing is not high stakes for the kids, it it high stakes for the teachers. There should be no pressure on the kids for these tests. The only reason there is pressure is because the teachers put it there. The teachers who have done this should be ashamed of themselves. They are putting their own political agenda ahead of the well-being of the children they are teaching. There are other ways to accomplish your goals without using your students as pawns.

 

[msjprincess]

Yes we will have to agree to disagree because if a teacher isn't willing to fight for their own job, I don't see any reason that I should have my child fight for it for them instead.

I'm not doing it for the teachers. I don't think it's fair the way teachers will be evaluated with the scores that's not my reason for "opting out". I'm doing it for my own child. I don't care what anyone else does.

And for the record, I have 3 kids and one of them is taking the tests because she wants to.

 

[erin1715]

I totally agree that teachers shouldn't be putting pressure on the kids to do well on ANY test. Kids should always just do their best. If teachers are directly pressuring students to do well, that is wrong. However, the pressure is coming from the big wigs in Albany because of the importance placed on the scores of these tests, and then it all comes back to teachers not being able to control for every factor of their student's lives (poverty vs. affluence). The government system of controlling public education is broken, and that is why we're seeing homeschooling becoming increasingly popular.

 

[Kbee]

I'm not doing it for the teachers. I don't think it's fair the way teachers will be evaluated with the scores that's not my reason for "opting out". I'm doing it for my own child. I don't care what anyone else does.

And for the record, I have 3 kids and one of them is taking the tests because she wants to.

Everyone will have their own reasons, and you have to do what you feel is right for you and your kids. I didn't opt-out because I don't oppose the tests in general, what I oppose is the way they are used to evaluate teachers and for me, if the teachers aren't willing to opt-out because of that reason, then I'm not willing to opt my child out for it either.

 

[erin1715]

I'm not sure that the teacher benefits in either scenario anyway (kids opting out vs not). If too many kids opt out, then the district risks losing funding, which results in teachers being cut. If the students take the test and do poorly, the teacher gets a poor evaluation and gets cut eventually. Lose, lose situation.

 

[msjprincess]

I don't know if this is the case, but just reading this post makes me wonder if the "honor roll" classes are teaching "honor roll" lessons that equate to what's being taught in other schools around the country. Who determines what qualifies (speaking lessons, not kids) as "honor roll"? Wouldn't that be the benefit of having a national (or state) standard?

Like someone else said, honor roll is based on their average. In 6th grade all of the classes are on the same level. They have honors classes starting in 7th grade.

And no I don't know how their curriculum compares to the rest of the country. But I do find it hard to believe that a child with a 94 average would be in remedial classes in other schools.

 

[Kbee]

I'm not sure that the teacher benefits in either scenario anyway (kids opting out vs not). If too many kids opt out, then the district risks losing funding, which results in teachers being cut. If the students take the test and do poorly, the teacher gets a poor evaluation and gets cut eventually. Lose, lost situation.

I asked my teacher friend about the loss of funding because that was one concern I did have if I and too many others chose to opt-out. She told me that they will not lose funding, and in another thread the OP here posted a couple sites explaining that.

 

[nugov2]

I'm not sure that the teacher benefits in either scenario anyway (kids opting out vs not). If too many kids opt out, then the district risks losing funding, which results in teachers being cut. If the students take the test and do poorly, the teacher gets a poor evaluation and gets cut eventually. Lose, lose situation.

And that is why I truly believe the teacher are cutting off their nose to spite their face right now. This is their shot to make a statement and to make real change. Instead their is a muddled and unorganized movement going on that is also putting them in a bad light. Sadly the only way I see any change coming is if the whole country takes a dive on these tests and I just don't see it happening. The sad realty is that I fear a lot of this will be in vain and the biggest losers will be the students in NY.

 

[erin1715]

Well, in future years it may come to teachers being fed up and organizing a strike. Maybe it just hasn't hit that point yet. If enough good teachers start getting let go because of the results of these evaluations, then we might see something like that happen.

 

[sam_gordon]

Like someone else said, honor roll is based on their average. In 6th grade all of the classes are on the same level. They have honors classes starting in 7th grade.

And no I don't know how their curriculum compares to the rest of the country. But I do find it hard to believe that a child with a 94 average would be in remedial classes in other schools.

I agree with the bolded. But it still makes me wonder.

 

[msjprincess]

Well, in future years it may come to teachers being fed up and organizing a strike. Maybe it just hasn't hit that point yet. If enough good teachers start getting let go because of the results of these evaluations, then we might see something like that happen.

I doubt that will ever happen since they could all be fired.

 

[Kbee]

Well, in future years it may come to teachers being fed up and organizing a strike. Maybe it just hasn't hit that point yet. If enough good teachers start getting let go because of the results of these evaluations, then we might see something like that happen.

I have a feeling that based on the percentages that opted out the tests this year will become invalid, but you never know. And FTR, another reason I had my ds not opt-out was because I'm pretty sure he'll do well and I wanted him counted towards his teacher's eval if it turns out they count these tests. As much as I think she should be putting herself out there for what is right, I think she is a wonderful teacher and has done a great job this year with my ds.

I wonder what will happen next year if this doesn't change anything? Maybe that will be the time when the teachers decide to stand up and fight the powers that be.

 

[erin1715]

I think if they were only able to organize a handful of teachers for a strike then yes, they would be fired. A strike could only work if every NYS teacher agreed to it. They could never fill all those vacancies if they fired everyone.

 

[undertheradar]

I think if they were only able to organize a handful of teachers for a strike then yes, they would be fired. A strike could only work if every NYS teacher agreed to it. They could never fill all those vacancies if they fired everyone.

Don't be so sure, there are a lot of out of work teachers.