Testing refusal rates in your district

[ziravan]

Status symbol? How so? What kind of status could anyone attain by this?

The test isn't just a symbol. The test provides data on your children. Data that will then be used against schools and teachers. By refusing the tests in large numbers, we are hoping to skew the numbers. The data will be unusable if enough people opt out. I love the education that my children have received through public school. I have one in college who missed all this CC stuff. Two high schoolers and a middle schooler. It's the elementary school kids whose whole foundation for learning is being affected by this insane testing. It's heartbreaking and while I'm glad my kids missed the worst of it, it's not all about my kids. I care about what happens to all children.

I didn't say status symbol. The test is just a symbol of the entire course of education. What would be the point of skipping the test as a protest if you're going to let your kid learn the curriculum the rest of the year?

My point was that skipping the test to protest the course isn't a likely reason for parents who send their kids to study the same curriculum every other day of the year.

In NY, you seem to have another reason related to teacher evaluations. That doesn't translate nationally.

And. This test provides absolutely no data on my homeschooled child who will never take either the test or the curriculum.

 

[ziravan]

double post

 

[Tinijocaro]

I didn't say status symbol. The test is just a symbol of the entire course of education. What would be the point of skipping the test if you're going to let your kid learn the curriculum the rest of the year?

And. This test provides absolutely no data on my homeschooled child who will never take either the test or the curriculum.

Got it wrong, you said trendy, pretty much the same idea. I've already explained what the point would be to skip the test even though the curriculum is being taught. Did you not read it?

As for your last sentence, obviously there is no data being gained from your children-they are homeschooled. Was that a homeschooling pat on the back for yourself?

 

[lauradis]

No, I'm not thinking it. It is already happening. Look up Success Charter Schools. Not sure if it's Common Core but it sure is Cuomo who is beating the Charter school drum. Have you not heard about this in the news? Are you in New York?

They have been beating the drum here in Cleveland, Ohio for long time, way before common core. Never seems to make much progress. You have to have students and parents that care enough. They have failed or or failing most standard testing. Dont think common core will make a difference.

 

[ziravan]

No common core in Texas. Not that I think that that is necessarily a good thing considering how poor so many of our schools are.

It's the Internet age and schools hire professional teachers and they almost certainly don't need the federal government to hold their hands while they teach.

Curriculum should be in the hands of local school boards and specifically, individual classrooms. Yes, that would require that teachers actually teach. Most would likely jump at the chance. I have more faith in that local classroom teacher than I do in some far removed bureaucrat when it comes to designing core standards.

BTW, about half of Texas schools use CSCOPE, and that is common core by another name.

 

[nugov2]

You are wrong. Plain and simple. They don't announce it, it just happens. Either parents don't know or don't care. I like to think that if parents knew, there would be a major legal battle. I don't have special needs kids but if I did and I found out they weren't getting their services, you bet there would be trouble.

And if that is the case those teachers not doing their job a wrong. Even more than the person who thought it was a good idea to have resource proctor. I honestly cannot even fathom a school environment that would allow that to happen and would take advantage of both their parents and students. From the principal to the teachers who could sit back and let that happen. At what point are they not responsible for their actions/decisions. You can't make the wrong choice and blame others. They know it is wrong to do this and if they go through with denying their students services then they are to blame. Why are the classroom teachers not the proctor for their own class. What are they doing while their class is being tested?

 

[ziravan]

Was that a homeschooling pat on the back for yourself?

Absolutely.

 

[aprilgail]

The numbers coming in right now for Nassau and Suffolk are pretty big- even just in our district the first year of high stakes testing in Jr. High there were 2 kids that opted out, mine and one other. The next year there were close to 200 in that school and this year over 300, 55%. 16,000 in just 21 districts!

About 16,000 students in grades 3 through 8, in 21 school districts in Nassau and Suffolk counties, opted out of the test, according to responses to a Newsday request to more than half of the Island's 124 districts. The other districts that Newsday reached out to did not respond or would not release numbers.

The number eclipses the level of refusals on last spring's exam, when nearly 9,500 students in 67 districts opted out, according to Newsday's survey on the final day of ELA testing last April.

 

[sam_gordon]

When I started teaching oh so many years ago, we focused on thematic instruction and integrating all subject areas so that our students had opportunities to make connections. We taught in ways that honored many learning styles, student's individual differences and developmental stages, along with their individual needs. We understood (and still do) that each child has different intelligences and learning styles. My walls and windows of my classroom were covered with songs and poems, student artwork and artifacts of student learning. My little ones sang and read and played. We taught using literature with rich language and focused on building background knowledge. Children were encouraged to synthesize knowledge and draw conclusions using what they knew and what they were learning. We used a tremendous amount of glitter and paper and encouraged children to express themselves in ways that played to their strengths. We did projects and had lots of hands-on learning with manipulatives. I assessed through observation and working directly with students.

Didn't we have a nationwide problem "oh so many years ago" where our kids were not learning on the same level as kids in other developed countries? And parents were complaining because kids were graduating HS when they couldn't read or write? But now "the good ole days" are what we should be looking to attain?

To answer the PP, aside from the Dis, I have heard EXTREMELY little about Common Core. Last year there was a homemade road sign against CC. That was it. It doesn't get discussed at work, at soccer practice, soccer games, lunch, wherever (at least around me). I'm in Kentucky, the first state to implement CC. If it wasn't for the Dis, CC wouldn't even be on my radar. And I have a junior in HS, and two kids in Elementary.

I also feel a lot of the problem is how states/districts/schools are implementing CC and the tests. I have no problem with the tests being used to evaluate teachers. Someone in another thread mentioned every other worker gets evaluated by their boss, and that should work for teachers. However, my problem with that is every other job has SOME kind of measurable results... a sales person sells things, a manufacturer builds things, a cook cooks items, etc. What is the product a teacher providers? An education. Who decides whether that education is "good enough" (ie: the student passes)? The teacher. It makes sense to me that an independent party should be able to judge whether the teacher is providing the product they were hired to build. Now, how much of the standardized test results should be used in an evaluation, I don't know. But to say the results shouldn't be used at all I don't think is right.

 

[kimmar067]

I don't know that it's true for this area. There are much "better", more affluent ones on this list with low numbers.

....I agree....I teach in a "borderline urban" district and, out of more than 600 students, only about 8-10 opted out...

 

[kimmar067]

I also feel a lot of the problem is how states/districts/schools are implementing CC and the tests. I have no problem with the tests being used to evaluate teachers. Someone in another thread mentioned every other worker gets evaluated by their boss, and that should work for teachers. However, my problem with that is every other job has SOME kind of measurable results... a sales person sells things, a manufacturer builds things, a cook cooks items, etc. What is the product a teacher providers? An education. Who decides whether that education is "good enough" (ie: the student passes)? The teacher. It makes sense to me that an independent party should be able to judge whether the teacher is providing the product they were hired to build. Now, how much of the standardized test results should be used in an evaluation, I don't know. But to say the results shouldn't be used at all I don't think is right.

....while I somewhat agree with you, there are just too many other factors that could affect the outcome of a student's score on some standardized test. For instance, a teacher cannot control what time at night that student goes to sleep, what their eating habits are, how much time is spent studying at home, etc. and we all know that these factors can weigh heavily upon the outcome of any given test....instead, a test [standardized or otherwise] should measure GROWTH. If, for example, a student scored [now these are all hypothetical] a 154, with a 200 as a passing score and they were to take the test again [at some later date] and received a score of 190, well, did that teacher fail, or does the test show that that particular student has shown growth?

 

[kimmar067]

I'd guess almost nobody. I haven't heard of one person opting out and I am actively involved in the school district. Because of all of the upset people on here I have asked around a lot and not one family I know or that they know. There is no movement or protesting. I live in an affluent area. We have no title 1 funding at any district schools. We have had no pressure put on students and no teaching to the test. My dd said they did very little review in class. I am curious to see how our results we be. My dd felt the PARCC testing was relatively easy, but long.

....I'm guessing that the parents in that school district take an active role in their child's education too.....

 

[kimmar067]

So basically what your thinking common core will do is turn public school in to for profit schools...

....funny you mentioned that, because a few teachers that I know have been fearing this exact same thing....

 

[zoemurr]

Didn't we have a nationwide problem "oh so many years ago" where our kids were not learning on the same level as kids in other developed countries? And parents were complaining because kids were graduating HS when they couldn't read or write? But now "the good ole days" are what we should be looking to attain?

To answer the PP, aside from the Dis, I have heard EXTREMELY little about Common Core. Last year there was a homemade road sign against CC. That was it. It doesn't get discussed at work, at soccer practice, soccer games, lunch, wherever (at least around me). I'm in Kentucky, the first state to implement CC. If it wasn't for the Dis, CC wouldn't even be on my radar. And I have a junior in HS, and two kids in Elementary.

I also feel a lot of the problem is how states/districts/schools are implementing CC and the tests. I have no problem with the tests being used to evaluate teachers. Someone in another thread mentioned every other worker gets evaluated by their boss, and that should work for teachers. However, my problem with that is every other job has SOME kind of measurable results... a sales person sells things, a manufacturer builds things, a cook cooks items, etc. What is the product a teacher providers? An education. Who decides whether that education is "good enough" (ie: the student passes)? The teacher. It makes sense to me that an independent party should be able to judge whether the teacher is providing the product they were hired to build. Now, how much of the standardized test results should be used in an evaluation, I don't know. But to say the results shouldn't be used at all I don't think is right.

It is my understanding that teachers in NY are not against the test results working toward their eval. It is the fact that Cuomo has now made it 50% of their eval, and another 30% by an outside company. Their actual boss will have very little input.

Yes, most businesses have measurable results, but the employee knows what the goals are. My husband has a sheet that he works toward all year. The teachers have no knowledge of what will be on this test until it is put in front of the kids. Would you like to just guess what your boss is looking for all year?

Did you read the "pineapple" question? Would you like to be evaluated on if your kids could answer that?

 

[nugov2]

....I'm guessing that the parents in that school district take an active role in their child's education too.....

Most do. I know that plays a factor in the succes of the education of a child. We also have a great superintendent which is another reason our district is doing so well. Our teachers are supported by both parents and administrators and that makes their environment much better.

 

[Mizzoufan]

We live in Missouri and doesn't seem to be an issue around here, maybe in the bigger cities like Kc or St. Louis.

 

[undertheradar]

The numbers coming in right now for Nassau and Suffolk are pretty big- even just in our district the first year of high stakes testing in Jr. High there were 2 kids that opted out, mine and one other. The next year there were close to 200 in that school and this year over 300, 55%. 16,000 in just 21 districts!

About 16,000 students in grades 3 through 8, in 21 school districts in Nassau and Suffolk counties, opted out of the test, according to responses to a Newsday request to more than half of the Island's 124 districts. The other districts that Newsday reached out to did not respond or would not release numbers.

The number eclipses the level of refusals on last spring's exam, when nearly 9,500 students in 67 districts opted out, according to Newsday's survey on the final day of ELA testing last April.

Yet the question remains: Are these opt outs against Common Core, or are they political against the governor?

 

[soccerdad72]

Don't know - don't care.

 

[sam_gordon]

....while I somewhat agree with you, there are just too many other factors that could affect the outcome of a student's score on some standardized test. For instance, a teacher cannot control what time at night that student goes to sleep, what their eating habits are, how much time is spent studying at home, etc. and we all know that these factors can weigh heavily upon the outcome of any given test....instead, a test [standardized or otherwise] should measure GROWTH. If, for example, a student scored [now these are all hypothetical] a 154, with a 200 as a passing score and they were to take the test again [at some later date] and received a score of 190, well, did that teacher fail, or does the test show that that particular student has shown growth?

I am hoping a teacher is not being evaluated on a single student. In my "ideal", the principal (or whoever) is looking at the general trend. I don't know anyone in any job who does everything 100% correctly every time. So, okay, one student gets a 154 out of 200. What if the other 29 students in the class score 180+? If I was doing that evaluation, I'd look at the big picture and figure the teacher is doing a pretty good job.

It is my understanding that teachers in NY are not against the test results working toward their eval. It is the fact that Cuomo has now made it 50% of their eval, and another 30% by an outside company. Their actual boss will have very little input.

Yes, most businesses have measurable results, but the employee knows what the goals are. My husband has a sheet that he works toward all year. The teachers have no knowledge of what will be on this test until it is put in front of the kids. Would you like to just guess what your boss is looking for all year?

Did you read the "pineapple" question? Would you like to be evaluated on if your kids could answer that?

WHY do the teachers have no knowledge of what's on the test? Shouldn't they know ahead of time what's going to be covered? If they don't, IMO, that's not the fault of the test, that's the fault of whoever made the decision to keep the teacher out of the loop. No, they don't need the exact questions, but they should get an idea (and sample question) of what's going to be covered.

 

[mom2rtk]

We live in Missouri and doesn't seem to be an issue around here, maybe in the bigger cities like Kc or St. Louis.

Nope. Not here in our KC suburb.

I just asked my 8th grade daughter this morning if anyone opts out of their testing. She looked at me like I had grown a 3rd head. It doesn't happen here.

She's a little annoyed with the motivational videos they are watching this week, but next week they'll take the test then they'll move on. I said "Yeah, sometimes you have to do stuff you don't agree with." And the discussion was over.